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Nexus: An NPE like no other


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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I'm not sure Ivan has gotten more than two useful summons per game against me so far, so I don't think it is quite "when he likes". He has to work quite hard for it come together (assuming the opponent is working hard to deny it).

ivan summon very easy and all models for summon are great

and i would make mordrake insignificant too and his demise once per game and not anywhere on the map into base contact with ivan

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Here is a battle report of my Nekima into Nexus. For this game, I tried to take a strong lure effect (Wrath's Bring It!, Since the +2 can overpower the unhelpfully low Mv Cadmus has) as the previous 3

Let's not forget that these people are not playing their best as they have a point to prove about cadmus. Havent watched the dreamer game but for best dreamer player that just sounds bad play.

I don't see any evidence that things are so bad you have to "change the entire faction."   I'd say you have to tweak at most 25% of the models, and I doubt it will come to the level of "completely cha

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27 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I'm not sure Ivan has gotten more than two useful summons per game against me so far, so I don't think it is quite "when he likes". He has to work quite hard for it come together (assuming the opponent is working hard to deny it).

Anna Lovelace helps 😛

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Although I do run Molly, and the card draw really helps. Some turns he just can't beat my hand.

You drawing a lot of cards somehow prevents him drawing a singel 13? Its not like Ivan dosent have card draw - easy access to arcane res, archivist and flush with cash. He also does have some more draw options with surge triggers, prospector or operative.

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Just now, Passenty said:

You drawing a lot of cards somehow prevents him drawing a singel 13? Its not like Ivan dosent have card draw - easy access to arcane res, archivist and flush with cash. He also does have some more draw options with surge triggers, prospector or operative.

It does not (although with Dead Rider he actually needs a 14).

However, some of the time it does. As I said, he still gets about two useful summons off against me per game so far.

It just seems far from automatic compared to Kirai for example.

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Also worth noting all of his summons can be single activationed, so an option is to allow the summon and then kill it instantly.

Note I don't like Ivan's design and feel it is over the top, but there is counterplay available and I wouldn't count it as an auto summon.

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1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

It does not (although with Dead Rider he actually needs a 14).

However, some of the time it does. As I said, he still gets about two useful summons off against me per game so far.

It just seems far from automatic compared to Kirai for example.

Kirai has no draw engine apart from whisper so turn 3+ summons are far from automatic if you pressure her. Even skipping summoning  I think Ivan does quite a bit more then Kirai. Also its usually a lot easier to win initiative against Kirai as she usually has some seishin and Ivan has archivist:P

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also worth noting all of his summons can be single activationed, so an option is to allow the summon and then kill it instantly.

Note I don't like Ivan's design and feel it is over the top, but there is counterplay available and I wouldn't count it as an auto summon.

which counterplay to ivan u have?

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3 minutes ago, Passenty said:

Kirai has no draw engine apart from whisper so turn 3+ summons are far from automatic if you pressure her. Even skipping summoning  I think Ivan does quite a bit more then Kirai. Also its usually a lot easier to win initiative against Kirai as she usually has some seishin and Ivan has archivist:P

True, but iniitally I was just talking about the idea that Ivan is an auto-summoner. He is not, and has to work quite hard for it.

2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

which counterplay to ivan u have?

Note that I think Ivan is probably broken, and will need a nerf eventually, but...

  • Crew selection - you control what he can summon by what you hire. You also can make things difficult to kill (don't take a 9 health enforcer for example, and terrifying is quite useful here).
  • Crew positioning - you decide where Ivan can place his summons, and how much work he has to do to get them. Hide everything out of LOS or at least ~17" away from Ivan.
  • Take things that can single activation his summons (Archie, Dead Rider, Molly, etc).
  • Put pressure on his crew so that Ivan has to spend time scoring instead of attacking.
  • Constantly threaten death on Ivan if he mispositions (Reap, mass marker removal, etc). Ivan slows down a lot if he has to stand next to an emissary or shadow markers.
  • Etc

Again, he is probably too strong. Having a master where the answer is "just don't go within 17 inches" is pretty brutal. But he has more counterplay than Cadmus as far as I can see.

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

True, but iniitally I was just talking about the idea that Ivan is an auto-summoner. He is not, and has to work quite hard for it.

Note that I think Ivan is probably broken, and will need a nerf eventually, but...

  • Crew selection - you control what he can summon by what you hire. You also can make things difficult to kill (don't take a 9 health enforcer for example, and terrifying is quite useful here).
  • Crew positioning - you decide where Ivan can place his summons, and how much work he has to do to get them. Hide everything out of LOS or at least ~17" away from Ivan.
  • Take things that can single activation his summons (Archie, Dead Rider, Molly, etc).
  • Put pressure on his crew so that Ivan has to spend time scoring instead of attacking.
  • Constantly threaten death on Ivan if he mispositions (Reap, mass marker removal, etc). Ivan slows down a lot if he has to stand next to an emissary or shadow markers.
  • Etc

Again, he is probably too strong. Having a master where the answer is "just don't go within 17 inches" is pretty brutal. But he has more counterplay than Cadmus as far as I can see.

ivan will summon model that he need anywhere on the map, so its doesnt matter where u stay

taking models with wp5 means that he may just kill your models with 6stat atack

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2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

True, but iniitally I was just talking about the idea that Ivan is an auto-summoner. He is not, and has to work quite hard for it.

He dosent need to summon though as he can just dish out 9+ damage with + and ignoring concealment/engagement.

3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

But he has more counterplay than Cadmus as far as I can see.

Oh good thats really comforting!

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3 minutes ago, Plaag said:

ivan will summon model that he need anywhere on the map, so its doesnt matter where u stay

taking models with wp5 means that he may just kill your models with 6stat atack

Well, it does matter because I can turn around and kill his summon.

How does Ivan kill Archie hiding behind terrain (potentially requires 7 cards if he can even get to Archie)? Or crooligans hiding in a corner? Or armor 2 models? Or Rogue Necromancy (okay, he takes Archivist for that last one).

Like playing against Seamus, don't take things he can easily kill.

3 minutes ago, Passenty said:

Oh good thats really comforting!

Haha, I know, right? My original point - how damn broken does Cadmus have to be that it makes ENGLISH IVAN look normal.

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Well, it does matter because I can turn around and kill his summon.

How does Ivan kill Archie hiding behind terrain (potentially requires 7 cards if he can even get to Archie)? Or crooligans hiding in a corner? Or armor 2 models? Or Rogue Necromancy (okay, he takes Archivist for that last one).

Like playing against Seamus, don't take things he can easily kill.

Haha, I know, right? My original point - how damn broken does Cadmus have to be that it makes ENGLISH IVAN look normal.

he may just kill molly, it is easy, then kill all other crew

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5 minutes ago, Plaag said:

he may just kill molly, it is easy, then kill all other crew

Yes, I tied my last game against Ivan because I mispositioned Molly and got punished heavily for it (ended up sacrificing Dead Rider to save her).

Killing Molly requires coming pretty far out, though. If he attacks Molly and fails to kill her, I may be able to reap him into Molly range and hit him for 9 irreducible.

So it is quite a delicate situation for Ivan.

Although, again, Ivan is too strong. Just not unbeatable. He loses games to bad hands/flips sometimes. Which I don't like the design of, but that's how it is.

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1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Although, again, Ivan is too strong. Just not unbeatable. He loses games to had hands/flips sometimes. Which I don't like the design of, but that's how it is.

Hey! Hey! You two, go make an Ivan thread. We have to compartmentalize the flow of salt, lest we sink the whole ship. 

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yes, I tied my last game against Ivan because I mispositioned Molly and got punished heavily for it (ended up sacrificing Dead Rider to save her).

Killing Molly requires coming pretty far out, though. If he attacks Molly and fails to kill her, I may be able to reap him into Molly range and hit him for 9 irreducible.

So it is quite a delicate situation for Ivan.

Although, again, Ivan is too strong. Just not unbeatable. He loses games to bad hands/flips sometimes. Which I don't like the design of, but that's how it is.

irriducible goes only if he have 4 cards or less, if he have full hand-molly is useless

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2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

irriducible goes only if he have 4 cards or less, if he have full hand-molly is useless

If Ivan comes forward and goes all out in attacking Molly, he probably has a reduced hand size.

But yes, it is very difficult to set up and Ivan had been one of the most challenging masters for me to face so far (although I'm not sure he is on par with facing your Colette).

4 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

Hey! Hey! You two, go make an Ivan thread. We have to compartmentalize the flow of salt, lest we sink the whole ship. 

Sorry, sorry. Will cease and desist xD should we transfer to the other thread about the rest of ES?

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1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Sorry, sorry. Will cease and desist xD should we transfer to the other thread about the rest of ES?

More power to ya, I'm just trying to make this thread specifically about Nexus. There's decent masters for decent folk in ExpSo, I want to make things concise for when folks are trying to form an opinion on the matter of Cadmus, and diggin' through a will-they-won't-they Molly x Ivan pair off doesn't work to that goal :P

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