Nexus: An NPE like no other

[Maogrim]

4 minutes ago, katadder said:

I was basing it off the cards I saw you flip so yeah you could have done it easily.

You wouldn't have ended an activation in range as there was a big ass building in the way that the slow crew couldn't get around.

Not apologising for that as from your rant about nekima being your master and tilt about cadmus then coming in here and posting it too then how does it look to anyone outside?

It looks as I stated, you can say it isn't, but going off your own trumpet blowing followed by a rant 🤷‍♂️

I don't claim to be awesome, although plenty of people on this thread do then complain when we question it 🤣

But you do get that there's a slight difference between maybe prematurely calling a Master broken and ranting like Kharnage did, and outright accusing someone of lying and manipulating like you did?! 

[katadder]

14 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

But you do get that there's a slight difference between maybe prematurely calling a Master broken and ranting like Kharnage did, and outright accusing someone of lying and manipulating like you did?! 

Oh yeah, I mean he posted what he thinks, I posted what I think based off his own almighty assessment of his ability compared to actual video proof 😉

Maybe we're both right, maybe both wrong, maybe one or the other but it's out there and that's what's we think, all personal views.

I think the games look thrown, if not then sure, but from supposed self confessed player skill what other opinion can I come to? Thats my opinion 

[SEV]

This discussion seems to go out of hand, can we just go back at focussing our anger toward our new Spider archnemesis 😀

Also, IMO it doesn't really matter if people make the optimal plays (nobody ever does and especially not against a new threat like cadmus). What matters is to know if it's possible to adjust our playstyle/ crew selection to keep cadmus in check with other faction or if even in the long run, they'll stay overpowered (which mus be adress)... We won't have answer to that question yet (still need a little more time for people to play with / against cadmus) but those recorded game are a step in the right direction and, for now, it's looking grim for the "cadmus is balance hypothesis"..

 

[Kharnage]

20 minutes ago, katadder said:

Not apologising for that as from your rant about nekima being your master and tilt about cadmus then coming in here and posting it too then how does it look to anyone outside?

 

I appreciate the sentiment that I could have only possibly lost by throwing the game, it does my confidence good. And it sounds like you're unconvinced that I am a good, successful Nekima player. 
If you're as decent of a player as you are a human being, I'd be happy to get a game in. You can play Nexus if you'd like. 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Whut said:

This is *slightly off topic, but @Plaag could you please start including the Crew lists in your video descriptions on Youtube? If you'd be comfortable with going one step further, including timestamps for when each Turn starts and a timestamp where you mention which schemes each player took at the end of the game would also be amazing.

It would help me (and likely others) greatly if we could easily reference these - watching a 2-4 hour game is not easy to find the time to do. I think this would allow more people to join the conversation.

ill try, dont know abt already uploaded videos

[katadder]

5 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

I appreciate the sentiment that I could have only possibly lost by throwing the game, it does my confidence good. And it sounds like you're unconvinced that I am a good, successful Nekima player. 
If you're as decent of a player as you are a human being, I'd be happy to get a game in. You can play Nexus if you'd like. 

I'll  give you a game at some point if you like, my ability on the day as I've said will be random 🤣

Won't be nexus though as too many moving parts and no interest 

[Kharnage]

3 minutes ago, katadder said:

I'll  give you a game at some point if you like, my ability on the day as I've said will be random 🤣

Won't be nexus though as too many moving parts and no interest 

I'm free in the evening all next week except Monday and Friday. Are you in the American or European time zones? 

[katadder]

Just now, Kharnage said:

I'm free in the evening all next week except Monday and Friday. Are you in the American or European time zones? 

GMT so evening for you is way to late for me. Will sort something some time.

[Kharnage]

9 minutes ago, katadder said:

GMT so evening for you is way to late for me. Will sort something some time.

Mmhmm.

So anyway, what masters and matchups are people hoping to see into Cadmus? Can anyone that the community feels trustworthy enough play those matchups out? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

One thing to note is that it is going to be pretty darn salt inducing if things other than Cadmus get nerfed.

Can you imagine if Dead Rider gets nerfed and Cadmus stays the same? XD

As for the videos... I think it is patently absurd to suggest that any of the players intentionally threw the games. That's ridiculous.

However, I do think some of them started the games resigned to defeat. That's not how you win games, and often results in misplaying. If Cadmus can be beaten, it will require creativity and strong play.

[Jesy Blue]

Just now, Maniacal_cackle said:

One thing to note is that it is going to be pretty darn salt inducing if things other than Cadmus get nerfed.

Can you imagine if Dead Rider gets nerfed and Cadmus stays the same?

If there's an errata coming out this spring, chances are that's exactly what will happen.

I doubt anything in Explorer's Society will even be touched as we're just now getting some real play with them. The year feels like forever, but the book came out less 3 months ago and in paper less than 2 months ago with limited play occurring throughout the pandemiced holiday season.

If there are even 3 things changed from the faction I'd be stupifued!

[SEV]

1 hour ago, Kharnage said:

Mmhmm.

So anyway, what masters and matchups are people hoping to see into Cadmus? Can anyone that the community feels trustworthy enough play those matchups 

Data will come (especially with the vassal monthly tournament).

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, Kharnage said:

Mmhmm.

So anyway, what masters and matchups are people hoping to see into Cadmus? Can anyone that the community feels trustworthy enough play those matchups out? 

My list of things I'd like to try:

• Molly (activation control + mobility may help)
• Reva (can fight from a safe distance, concealing doesn't matter, can generate 6 WP duel pulses in one activation at a minus flip if need be)
• Dreamer + Zoraida - can sacrifice an endless array of models into Cadmus while still having strong scoring power.
• Kirai - similar to above.
• Molly and kirai - best of Molly + summons is pretty sweet. 

Mayyyybe McMourning + Reva. Pretty sure McMourning would rampage, but he would get a parasite token eventually. Maybe do the summoning engine with him? 

I can't think of any melee crews that would do well here, though.

Also note two of the things I listed almost certainly deserve a nerf (or all of them if you think Dead Rider needs a nerf xD

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

One thing to note is that it is going to be pretty darn salt inducing if things other than Cadmus get nerfed.

Can you imagine if Dead Rider gets nerfed and Cadmus stays the same? XD

As for the videos... I think it is patently absurd to suggest that any of the players intentionally threw the games. That's ridiculous.

However, I do think some of them started the games resigned to defeat. That's not how you win games, and often results in misplaying. If Cadmus can be beaten, it will require creativity and strong play.

i have started the game with dreamer not hoping to win, because ive lost games with my colette against that master)

[im_open_to_suggestions]

1 hour ago, Kharnage said:

Mmhmm.

So anyway, what masters and matchups are people hoping to see into Cadmus? Can anyone that the community feels trustworthy enough play those matchups out? 

as the world best basse player (self titled) i wish i had enough free time to do this

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

My list of things I'd like to try:

• Molly (activation control + mobility may help)
• Reva (can fight from a safe distance, concealing doesn't matter, can generate 6 WP duel pulses in one activation at a minus flip if need be)
• Dreamer + Zoraida - can sacrifice an endless array of models into Cadmus while still having strong scoring power.
• Kirai - similar to above.
• Molly and kirai - best of Molly + summons is pretty sweet. 

Mayyyybe McMourning + Reva. Pretty sure McMourning would rampage, but he would get a parasite token eventually. Maybe do the summoning engine with him? 

I can't think of any melee crews that would do well here, though.

Also note two of the things I listed almost certainly deserve a nerf (or all of them if you think Dead Rider needs a nerf xD

i think maybe my mei feng could do something, i need to try

but i think it will gonna work only once if opp doesnt know what im going to do

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Plaag, have you playtested any changes? I'd be curious to see how strong the crew is without Archivist.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

@Plaag, have you playtested any changes? I'd be curious to see how strong the crew is without Archivist.

no, havent got any time, maybe will play against personalglitch on a weak

and im not going to take off the most efficient model

im thinking to take 2 cash on 2 minions-that once per game card draw is insane

we fight for initiative , i have spent 2 cards, than i have discarded weak 3 cards and draw 5 cards! insane

[Alcathous]

1 hour ago, Kharnage said:

So anyway, what masters and matchups are people hoping to see into Cadmus? Can anyone that the community feels trustworthy enough play those matchups out? 

I'm interested to see Euripides and Lucius. Willing to put them on the table if anyone wants to take the Cadmus side. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Plaag said:

no, havent got any time, maybe will play against personalglitch on a weak

and im not going to take off the most efficient model

im thinking to take 2 cash on 2 minions-that once per game card draw is insane

we fight for initiative , i have spent 2 cards, than i have discarded weak 3 cards and draw 5 cards! insane

Every ES crew I've played so far, I've used the card draw on at least one minion.

It is IMO the best thing about the card in the crews I've played. Negating an attack isn't as good as just destroying the enemy with a hand full of severes for my crews.

Not sure about Cadmus.

[Plaag]

4 hours ago, Whut said:

This is *slightly off topic, but @Plaag could you please start including the Crew lists in your video descriptions on Youtube? If you'd be comfortable with going one step further, including timestamps for when each Turn starts and a timestamp where you mention which schemes each player took at the end of the game would also be amazing.

It would help me (and likely others) greatly if we could easily reference these - watching a 2-4 hour game is not easy to find the time to do. I think this would allow more people to join the conversation.

maybe tomorrow, or on a days timestamps would be added to the games with ollih and axel

[Adran]

I have tried a few Cadmus games, and I would probably sum then up as a machine. It runs really efficiently until something goes wrong. And I think the crucial piece for the machine is Meredith. If you can remove Meredith then you have removed almost all the healing, and you have removed the ability to get husks. That makes a huge difference to facing them. And Meredith needs to be within 3" of several models to really get her healing going, so she can't be too far from the fight. 

Cadmus certainly has the ability to make that hard, with Flush with Cash and take the hit on the emissary, but from the few games I've played, this is where you need to target them to beat them. 

Of course the trick is how you do this, and there isn't an easy answer to that, because that depends a lot on how the Cadmus player plays. I had good success the other night with Parker, Mad dog and Pride. Remove the ability to cheat every flip, and have a high damage shooting model with blasts and you can make quite a mess of the clumps. (Mad dog also caused Nexus turns to be almost exclusively web generation to feed eyes and ears because he was able to remove any stored up). 

Its enough to make me think Cadmus is beatable. Its still really strong, but this is where I think you need to try and disrupt what I've read and seen about the Cadmus playstyle. (Plaag may play them very differently I don't know, I can't watch his videos. I certainly don't get enough use out of Mr Nggatoro to make him a regular pick). 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I have tried a few Cadmus games, and I would probably sum then up as a machine. It runs really efficiently until something goes wrong. And I think the crucial piece for the machine is Meredith. If you can remove Meredith then you have removed almost all the healing, and you have removed the ability to get husks. That makes a huge difference to facing them. And Meredith needs to be within 3" of several models to really get her healing going, so she can't be too far from the fight. 

Cadmus certainly has the ability to make that hard, with Flush with Cash and take the hit on the emissary, but from the few games I've played, this is where you need to target them to beat them. 

Of course the trick is how you do this, and there isn't an easy answer to that, because that depends a lot on how the Cadmus player plays. I had good success the other night with Parker, Mad dog and Pride. Remove the ability to cheat every flip, and have a high damage shooting model with blasts and you can make quite a mess of the clumps. (Mad dog also caused Nexus turns to be almost exclusively web generation to feed eyes and ears because he was able to remove any stored up). 

Its enough to make me think Cadmus is beatable. Its still really strong, but this is where I think you need to try and disrupt what I've read and seen about the Cadmus playstyle. (Plaag may play them very differently I don't know, I can't watch his videos. I certainly don't get enough use out of Mr Nggatoro to make him a regular pick). 

if pride was near meredith or emissary-than he is dead at the moment-just watch videos-meredith is almost always near nexus, emissary/effigy, archivist and there are a lot of e&e near, so killing them wont give anything exept of wasted actions and ss+cards to cadmus; also parker is very weak-in keyword only mad dog is A-tier; and how did parker went through 2 nests?

[Daniel Walker]

15 minutes ago, Adran said:

I have tried a few Cadmus games, and I would probably sum then up as a machine. It runs really efficiently until something goes wrong. And I think the crucial piece for the machine is Meredith. If you can remove Meredith then you have removed almost all the healing, and you have removed the ability to get husks. That makes a huge difference to facing them. And Meredith needs to be within 3" of several models to really get her healing going, so she can't be too far from the fight. 

Cadmus certainly has the ability to make that hard, with Flush with Cash and take the hit on the emissary, but from the few games I've played, this is where you need to target them to beat them. 

Of course the trick is how you do this, and there isn't an easy answer to that, because that depends a lot on how the Cadmus player plays. I had good success the other night with Parker, Mad dog and Pride. Remove the ability to cheat every flip, and have a high damage shooting model with blasts and you can make quite a mess of the clumps. (Mad dog also caused Nexus turns to be almost exclusively web generation to feed eyes and ears because he was able to remove any stored up). 

Its enough to make me think Cadmus is beatable. Its still really strong, but this is where I think you need to try and disrupt what I've read and seen about the Cadmus playstyle. (Plaag may play them very differently I don't know, I can't watch his videos. I certainly don't get enough use out of Mr Nggatoro to make him a regular pick). 

Oh, I’ve played against Parker with Cadmus. And he killed Emissary, it’s really possible) But his every model shoot into him and he died. At the end of turn three)

[Adran]

25 minutes ago, Plaag said:

if pride was near meredith or emissary-than he is dead at the moment-just watch videos-meredith is almost always near nexus, emissary/effigy, archivist and there are a lot of e&e near, so killing them wont give anything exept of wasted actions and ss+cards to cadmus; also parker is very weak-in keyword only mad dog is A-tier; and how did parker went through 2 nests?

In my game it was the Intrepid effigy, which might be a mistake, but I was basing it off your list with Nggatoro and the cryptologist. The Outcasts had the hodgepodge emissary , and a Fast Mad dog was able to do 3 shots into the ball as one of the last activations of turn 1 (the Archivist activated after him and badly hurt him). Then Turn 2, Mad dog died to the Archivist but Parker was able to kill Meredith. The Cadmus ball had basically the whole crew in it because they had all had to be in it for me to get the webs turn 1 to get the eyes and ears. Pride moved up late turn 1 to just get Meredith in range of his aura, and it meant she wasn't able to cheat her bad flips. I only target eyes and ears for attack if I have to, I don't really want to waste actions. 

1 nest was near this crew, the other was elsewhere defending a strategy marker. But since that second next was the only think not in the clump it didn't seem a bad idea at the time.