False Claim + Investigator

[Caballero]

"Stand back! It's evidence!": After a corpse, Scrap or scheme marker marker is dropped within 4', after resolving the current action or ability, this model may push a model within 3' of the marker Up to 3' away from It.

If you drop 2 markers during the same action (as with false Claim) are you allowed to push two different models? Could you push the same model twice?

[Jesy Blue]

It's only one action being resolved, therefore you only push one model.

[Higgybeans]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

It's only one action being resolved, therefore you only push one model.

I'm not sure that is right. There is nothing that says you cannot push more than 1 model from this ability.

Each marker dropped would activate "Stand back it's evidence" if they are both within 4" of the investigator.

I'm not sure if you would be able to push the same model twice unless it was in range of both marker's, but I would think for sure you can move 2 separate models.

[Regelridderen]

I’d go with @Higgybeans usually those restrictions come with once per...-paragraph. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Different people play this different ways, but I would play it:

• Each scheme marker dropped generates a separate instance of Stand Back!
• You wait until the after resolving stage of the action to resolve it (I believe that's step 6) because that is when it says it resolves.
• Then all the generated Stand Back!s try to resolve at the same time. You use simultaneous effects timing (page 34 of the rulebook).
  • EDIT: Or if the markers were dropped at different times, you use the rules for Sequential effects (i.e. the marker that dropped first gets resolved first).
• So you resolve each of them in turn.
• I would play that you measure on resolving (rather than on generating), as things just get much simpler for lots of effects if you measure on resolving.
• So for each effect, find a model that is currently within 3" of the marker that generated the effect and push it 3" away.

So in theory you could have a 'railgun' sort of effect where if you line up the markers perfectly, the model gets pushed 6 or even 9 inches.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Note that page 34 has rules for Sequential Effects for generating and resolving effects, and rules for Simultaneous Effects for generating and resolving effects... But there are no explicit rules for what we might call Delayed Effects (effects like Stand Back that are generated early on and resolved later).

So it is ambiguous what to do.

When a case is ambiguous, best to discuss it with your playgroup and come up with the way you all want to play it.

[solkan]

11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Note that page 34 has rules for Sequential Effects for generating and resolving effects, and rules for Simultaneous Effects for generating and resolving effects... But there are no explicit rules for what we might call Delayed Effects (effects like Stand Back that are generated early on and resolved later).

So it is ambiguous what to do.

I'll agree that the rulebook doesn't explicitly state a principle for this sort of delayed effects, but I think there are some principles that can be agreed upon.  The biggest one is probably:

• Decisions for an effect get made when the effect "goes off" (get's resolved), not when it's triggered.  You don't make decisions for an effect just because you're reading the text.  

There's no general rule stating that 'after resolving' effects of the same name get combined, or otherwise limit how many times they can be resolved once they've been set off.  There's a specific rule (If there are multiple Investigators in play in range of the marker, the aura rules create a limit that both investigators can't push the same model) for one circumstance, but not a general limit.

So, to lay out an extreme scenario:

1. Lady Justice uses Decay, get a red joker on the damage flip, and is putting down her blasts in a large group of models with 1 wound remain.  For the sake of grandiosity, eight models get killed.
2. For each of the 8 models, you check the trigger clause of "Stand Back! It's Evidence", and it turns out that there's one Investigator in range of each marker as it is dropped.
3. So at the end of the action, the effects of "Stand Back! It's Evidence" gets resolved eight times (once per marker that was dropped).  As each one is resolved, the choice for 'a model within 3" of the Marker" is chosen (making it effectively 'currently within 3" of the Marker') is pushed up to 3" away from that marker.

It's entirely permissible that the same model gets chosen all eight times if it happens to be within 3" of each of the markers as the effects get resolved.

TLDR:  An action dropping two markers and setting off "Stand Back! It's Evidence" twice is small potatoes.  And it's all Wyrd's fault for removing the "once per activation" limit on the effect that it had in M2E.   

[Maniacal_cackle]

11 minutes ago, solkan said:

Decisions for an effect get made when the effect "goes off" (get's resolved), not when it's triggered.  You don't make decisions for an effect just because you're reading the text.  

I generally agree (and that's how I play it). But I can't find anything in the rules to justify that, other than "the game gets pretty wonky if you don't play it like this."

However, there are some funky differences. Measuring for aura distances typically happens at the time of generation. For example, the Investigator has two different timings for measuring:

• For determining if a corpse, scrap, or scheme marker is dropped within 4, you determine that at the point of generating the effect (aka, immediately, not after resolving).
• For determining what models are eligible to be pushed, that happens at the time of after resolving.

So there's a measurement that must be done when the effect is generated (when the marker drops) and when the effect is resolved (after resolving you move something).

I think you capture it well with the word decisions. If you're making a decision, it is probably when you are actually resolving the effect. If you're checking to see if an effect happens at all, you're probably measuring when you generate the effect.