Tara, laugh off and other effects

[Pallas4]

Hi

 

I saw that is the rules, some days ago

So... I have to verify. Cab we burry a model with Laugh off or Planted Roots (or a friendly model with staggered)?

And for the unburry, we are not totaly sure in French Discord to the meaning of "as above"... So in the unburry... with the rules of Tara (1'' of an ennemy/unburry by aionus) or in deployeent zone?

 

Thanks

[Adran]

This came about because the unbury rules place the model, so are a movement effect. No bury effect that I can think of is a movement effect, so they are unaffected by laugh off. 

I read the as above referring to the unbury effect first mentioned, so in effect treat it as if the model didn't have laugh off, staggered etc. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just found this in the rules:

Quote

During a game, objects (most often models,but sometimes Markers or terrain) will move around the table (but never off it)

So there's some further support that the bury itself doesn't count as a move.

[santaclaws01]

As above is referencing the clause in the rule book, not whatever specific card effect is trying to unbury the model.

[solkan]

10 hours ago, Pallas4 said:

And for the unburry, we are not totaly sure in French Discord to the meaning of "as above"... So in the unburry... with the rules of Tara (1'' of an ennemy/unburry by aionus) or in deployeent zone?

Concerning the "as above" part of :"If a model would be unburied but cannot because of an effect such as [list], it may still be Unburied as above, ignoring the effect"... as Adran wrote, the reason for the errata is that Place effects are movement in this edition, and Unburying a model states that the model is "placed" on the table.

So you still follow the process of:

1. Attempt to place the model constrained by both the parameters of the unbury effect ("unbury within 1" of ..."), physical reality ("Can that base really fit on the table there?"), and effects like Gravity Well.
2. If Step 1 didn't successfully place the model, try again using "place anywhere in its deployment zone" instead of whatever the unbury effect says.

Note that it is theoretically possible to cover an entire deployment zone with things that will prevent the model that you're trying to unbury; but managing to prevent a model unburying is probably still less likely to happen than a Dreamer crew removing their entire deck from play.

[le_wahou]

On 1/31/2021 at 3:22 AM, solkan said:

Concerning the "as above" part of :"If a model would be unburied but cannot because of an effect such as [list], it may still be Unburied as above, ignoring the effect"... as Adran wrote, the reason for the errata is that Place effects are movement in this edition, and Unburying a model states that the model is "placed" on the table.

So you still follow the process of:

1. Attempt to place the model constrained by both the parameters of the unbury effect ("unbury within 1" of ..."), physical reality ("Can that base really fit on the table there?"), and effects like Gravity Well.
2. If Step 1 didn't successfully place the model, try again using "place anywhere in its deployment zone" instead of whatever the unbury effect says.

Note that it is theoretically possible to cover an entire deployment zone with things that will prevent the model that you're trying to unbury; but managing to prevent a model unburying is probably still less likely to happen than a Dreamer crew removing their entire deck from play.

Additionnal question : if a model with laugh off is buried by a glimpse fo the void, the owner of the buried can choose to refuse the unbury within 1" and accept the unbury by owner in deployment zone. That's correct ?

[Adran]

18 minutes ago, le_wahou said:

Additionnal question : if a model with laugh off is buried by a glimpse fo the void, the owner of the buried can choose to refuse the unbury within 1" and accept the unbury by owner in deployment zone. That's correct ?

I think no. 

[santaclaws01]

17 hours ago, le_wahou said:

Additionnal question : if a model with laugh off is buried by a glimpse fo the void, the owner of the buried can choose to refuse the unbury within 1" and accept the unbury by owner in deployment zone. That's correct ?

Yes. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

19 hours ago, le_wahou said:

Additionnal question : if a model with laugh off is buried by a glimpse fo the void, the owner of the buried can choose to refuse the unbury within 1" and accept the unbury by owner in deployment zone. That's correct ?

The (errata) rules specifically cover this:

Quote

 If a model would be Unburied but cannot be because of an effect such as Laugh Off, Planted Roots,or Staggered, it may still be Unburied as above, ignoring such an effect

You still unbury normally, even with an effect like Laugh Off. The owner can't use Laugh Off to stop the unbury/alter the placement.

[solkan]

On 2/1/2021 at 5:29 AM, le_wahou said:

Additionnal question : if a model with laugh off is buried by a glimpse fo the void, the owner of the buried can choose to refuse the unbury within 1" and accept the unbury by owner in deployment zone. That's correct ?

No, because the errata says that you ignore the effect that would prevent the unburying.  While I listed the unburying process as two steps, that's only for sake of trying to explain how you figure out where the model will be unburied.  In effect, the unbury rules say:

• A model that's unburied is placed back on the table.  If possible to do so, it is placed as specified in the unbury effect.  If there's no valid position that meets the specification of the unbury effect, ignore that specification and use "in the model's deployment zone" instead.

You don't play "Mother, may unbury the model here?" when interacting with Laugh Off.  You simply ignore Ignore Laugh Off if it is attempted to be invoked.

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, solkan said:

No, because the errata says that you ignore the effect that would prevent the unburying.  While I listed the unburying process as two steps, that's only for sake of trying to explain how you figure out where the model will be unburied.  In effect, the unbury rules say:

• A model that's unburied is placed back on the table.  If possible to do so, it is placed as specified in the unbury effect.  If there's no valid position that meets the specification of the unbury effect, ignore that specification and use "in the model's deployment zone" instead.

You don't play "Mother, may unbury the model here?" when interacting with Laugh Off.  You simply ignore Ignore Laugh Off if it is attempted to be invoked.

Laugh Off can be used to prevent enemy placement effects, which the unburry is.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Laugh Off can be used to prevent enemy placement effects, which the unburry is.

But the errata literally mentions Laugh Off as an ability that doesn't apply.

[santaclaws01]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

But the errata literally mentions Laugh Off as an ability that doesn't apply.

Yes, it would be unburried per the can't be placed rule, not the normal unburry effect, which is the thing Solkan was replying to and said laugh off can't be used period.

[Maniacal_cackle]

22 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Yes, it would be unburried per the can't be placed rule, not the normal unburry effect, which is the thing Solkan was replying to and said laugh off can't be used period.

The text says to ignore Laugh Off. How does it have an effect if it is being ignored?

 

[santaclaws01]

39 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The text says to ignore Laugh Off. How does it have an effect if it is being ignored?

 

It says to ignore laugh off for placing using the fallback clause in the rulebook, not for placing from an unburry period.

[Paddywhack]

12 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

It says to ignore laugh off for placing using the fallback clause in the rulebook, not for placing from an unburry period.

Disagree. That sentence is at the end of a long paragraph that starts with "A Buried model can only be returned to the table with an Unbury effect." and then goes on to list how to do any unbury effect. The "Unburied as above' statement covers all of the Unbury effects discussed above, not just the latter.