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Wording of Francisco’s Defensive Trigger


Bass Creed

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Defensive triggers are a little confusing.

By default, triggers are after succeeding. But this is from the perspective of the model who has the trigger. So when you're doing a defensive trigger, 'after succeeding' means 'after the attack fails' - you have to win the duel for a defensive trigger to go off.

So if Francisco is being attacked by a melee attack and he has a rams, he can declare the Parry Trigger. If the attack misses (and Francisco is the winner/succeeds), you get to do some damage to them.

If the attacker succeeds (and Francisco loses/fails the opposed duel), then you don't get to do the trigger.

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What @Maniacal_cackle said.

 

And to make things more confusing, the damage flip from the Defensive Trigger is also affected by Francisco's Accuracy Fate Modifier.  So, if Francisco wins the opposed duel by 2, and declares Parry, then the damage flip for Parry is at :-flip:-flip.  One for the Accuracy Fate Modifier, one for Parry itself.

 

The same is also true for Perdita's Defensive Trigger.

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17 hours ago, theamazingmrg said:

And to make things more confusing, the damage flip from the Defensive Trigger is also affected by Francisco's Accuracy Fate Modifier.  So, if Francisco wins the opposed duel by 2, and declares Parry, then the damage flip for Parry is at :-flip:-flip.  One for the Accuracy Fate Modifier, one for Parry itself.

We never played in this way... I think you are wrong.

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4 minutes ago, belorey said:

We never play in this way... I think you are wrong.

Page 24 says

Accuracy Fate Modifiers
Accuracy Fate Modifiers occur when there is a variable flip (often a damage flip) as the result of an opposed
duel.
The Accuracy Fate Modifiers are determined by the differences in the final duel total based on the breakdown
below:
• Tied: The damage flip will suffer --.
• 1 to 5: The damage flip will suffer a -.
• 6 to 10: The damage flip won’t have a modifier for accuracy.
• 11+: The damage flip will receive a +.

Parry results in a variable flip as the result of the opposed duel. So it should follow these rules. 

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Thanks all. With him being Df 5 and considering his role, it seems fairly useless.  I guess just a top deck “ha ha got you,” not something you would cheat for. I wondered if the melee attack qualifier made some difference to when triggered. Seems not, that’s just to differentiate from ranged. Thanks!!

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3 minutes ago, Bass Creed said:

Thanks all. With him being Df 5 and considering his role, it seems fairly useless.  I guess just a top deck “ha ha got you,” not something you would cheat for. I wondered if the melee attack qualifier made some difference to when triggered. Seems not, that’s just to differentiate from ranged. Thanks!!

I have always found it and similar triggers as things that earnt their reward after several games against the same opponent. I've faced this sort of trigger across 3 editions, and I learnt to play against someone that aggressively cheated to try and create success on these triggers. And when you expect to have to take damage from opportune shots, you stop taking opportune shots.  So I know I rate this sort of thing higher than a lot of people, because I've seen it used to its extreme ( I had games in M2E where I charged Lady Justice with Marcus for his full activation, and I took more damage than she did from the attacks that happened). 

If you don't cheat for it, then you will rarely see any use from it. If you do cheat for it regularly, then your opponents will start to attack Francisco less. You may not even notice it for a while, but it can affect your opponents choices without you realising, so its doing things for you that you might not know)

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24 minutes ago, Bass Creed said:

Thanks all. With him being Df 5 and considering his role, it seems fairly useless.  I guess just a top deck “ha ha got you,” not something you would cheat for. I wondered if the melee attack qualifier made some difference to when triggered. Seems not, that’s just to differentiate from ranged. Thanks!!

It mostly prevents end of turn attacks. When you do not have excellent ways to spend AP, taking a melee attack at a model close is usually the way to go. Even if you do not have cards to cheat, you have a chance to deal damage. Against a model with a parry, you will spen your AP otherwise.

That's like having an undercover reporter and never be able to use his arson. Your opponent will be less likely to take schemes with schemes markers. That's already an impact of this model, even if he never takes his action.

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3 hours ago, belorey said:

We never play in this way... I think you are wrong.

 

1 hour ago, belorey said:

Yes you are right, web found It on FAQs. So if you use Focus defending you can benefit too from his :+flip to damage. 

IMG-20210119-WA0010.jpg

To be fair, its only something I actually realised this month myself.  I think its because this kind of Resistance Trigger variable flip doesn't occur too often, so we tend to associate the Accuracy modifier only with the attacker.  But when you look at the wording in the rules, it only talks about the amount the duel was won by and any variable flips as a result of the duel, not who actually wins.  The Defender still wins the duel by a certain amount, and its still a variable flip, so the Accuracy modifier applies.

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