Lucius Crew Inspirations

[ooshawn]

Having played around 10 or so games with lucius, I feel like he is a weaker keyword than zoraida. That's just probably the cold reality of it. There really is no reason to pick lucius over Z in my opinion outside of not paying a tax on his scheme marker related minions. Outside of a few schemes that rely on sche markers in the middle of the board, zoraida does everything he does better. She has better beaters, better scalpels, better tanks to hold down a spot, better obey, better defensive tech, better minions for most schemes and strats. She's literally littered in leap. Her models kill better. Any ook combo works better with her. The only thing he does better is maybe draw cards. Maybe.

Hes got some neat things about him, but serene countenance and really any ability that gives a single - to hit I've come to the conclusion is pretty bad. There are so many things literally baked into the game that counter it. Focus not only counters it but you keep your + to damage. Zoraida just says "yeah, your not doing that again" and hits your off button. 

He's a solid C tier master that won't wow you, but I thoroughly enjoy him. I suspect eventually I will pick up zoraida to complement him 

[extremor]

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

 

Having played around 10 or so games with lucius, I feel like he is a weaker keyword than zoraida.

 

Yes, I think so, too. 

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

There really is no reason to pick lucius over Z in my opinion outside of not paying a tax on his scheme marker related minions.

Well Lucius himself has way more style, his models look hellalot better, no one whines about him being too strong, he has nice synergies which are a challenge to master AND it is more satisfying to make him work on the battlefield 
that’s a lot of reasons except for competition gaming in tournaments. But then again Malifaux is not made for tournaments or balanced to be played completely competitive. 
 

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

zoraida does everything he does better.

Z hasn’t got the annoying auras of L. Subterfuge, Betrayal, Diversion, boring conversation, distraction, stand back it’s evidence, exclusive interview, active crime scene and Tell no lies - these are the best ones... chatty, chasing a story and remove evidence come on top of that . Quite something. Yes i am surely talking myself into playing Lucius over and over again. Yes i rarely play fully in keyword cause it is frustrating to get tabled turn 3-4 by these lame Killy crews. Yes it is hard as nails. 

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

She's literally littered in leap.

Yes her models work in their own. Lucius needs teamwork and enemies without AOE. That’s why Z is better and less challenging.  

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

He's a solid C tier master that won't wow you, but I thoroughly enjoy him.

👍you got it. If the encounter and enemy crew favors you and you tech well he’s more than tier C for sure. 
 

 

Then again: you can’t chose whom to fall in love with. For me it is the Neverborn with the mask. He came to me by fate and will always be mine *chuckle chuckle*

[MrPieChee]

Is it worth hitting the scribe turn 1 and then activating second for the focus? The heal is wasted, but seems like an easy focus pulse...

Does anyone use investigators?

[ooshawn]

for leave your mark they are insane. outside of that , idk

[Hawkoon]

On 3/13/2021 at 8:04 PM, MrPieChee said:

Is it worth hitting the scribe turn 1 and then activating second for the focus? The heal is wasted, but seems like an easy focus pulse...

Does anyone use investigators?

If you go for a crew focused on staggered, (Vasilisa, puppets, Alan Reid and Investigators) they can be quite good, but the 0" melee makes me sad...

[Roadhouse]

On 3/13/2021 at 1:04 PM, MrPieChee said:

Is it worth hitting the scribe turn 1 and then activating second for the focus? The heal is wasted, but seems like an easy focus pulse...

His trigger to bury is enemy only

[MrPieChee]

1 minute ago, Roadhouse said:

His trigger to bury is enemy only

Ha! It's only a short two line ability and I still missed that!

[Rosenzweig]

It occurred to me that you can use Vasilisa to "order" Agent 46 to take a free action, like Inhuman Physiology, and in activation he can then Mimic something like Angel Eyes' gun, for a potential volley of uncheatable ranged actions. 

[extremor]

2 hours ago, Rosenzweig said:

It occurred to me that you can use Vasilisa to "order" Agent 46 to take a free action, like Inhuman Physiology, and in activation he can then Mimic something like Angel Eyes' gun, for a potential volley of uncheatable ranged actions. 

No not possible because agent 46 ain’t no minion. 

[Rosenzweig]

On 3/16/2021 at 3:26 PM, extremor said:

No not possible because agent 46 ain’t no minion. 

Of course.

This selective memory is getting me down. 

[Regelridderen]

On 3/15/2021 at 1:03 PM, Hawkoon said:

... but the 0" melee makes me sad...

People often put a lot of emphasis on this, and I don’t get why. Sure its harder to defend an area vs interacts, but when it comes to fighting, its just another inch (or two) in a crew with plenty of pushes?

[Maniacal_cackle]

35 minutes ago, Regelridderen said:

People often put a lot of emphasis on this, and I don’t get why. Sure its harder to defend an area vs interacts, but when it comes to fighting, its just another inch (or two) in a crew with plenty of pushes?

The punishing bit comes when you're charged by someone else.

If you had equal engagement ranges, you'd get two attacks to respond with. If you have a smaller engagement range, you have to walk, then attack.

[admiralvorkraft]

18 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The punishing bit comes when you're charged by someone else.

If you had equal engagement ranges, you'd get two attacks to respond with. If you have a smaller engagement range, you have to walk, then attack.

Less of an issue for Lucius than anyone else. Issue command to a false witness, they use false claim, you get two pushes from Stand Back and draw a card for following orders plus set up to draw a card from remove evidence. Issue command on the Investigator to attack, draw a card. Hit for 1 and Stagger. Issue command to a Lawyer to obey the Investigator, draw two cards, hit and cheat the decent crow that you almost certainly have now for 4/5/6 damage ignoring armor (your two pushes from false claim/Stand Back should facilitate the LoS fuckery).

I guess first you scooped on your opponent's hand so you never need to cheat higher than necessary. 

And you could always just push the Investigator out of combat and do something completely different. Because why be tied down to anything you don't want to be? 

[Roadhouse]

There's alot that makes 0" melee bad.

Can't control an area to prevent interacts.

Lose an AP to fight the thing that is engaging you already.

Extremely limits charge angles(this is the biggest one IMO). Guy is just around the corner of some impassable? No charge. Another model? No charge. Base to base is almost as bad as having to go directly towards and to keep viable charge lanes you can't take advantage of cover or your own models to stop their charge in the event you need to activate the 0" melee guy first. Go into vassal and set up a couple models to see how big of a difference in possible charge lanes there are between 1" and 0" melee

[admiralvorkraft]

The charge angles thing is huge, no doubt. 

[ooshawn]

I am a lucius fanatic. He is bad and his theme is bad(taken as a whole, comparatively)

[Corwin]

The one thing I see as an advantage for a 0" engagement is there is very little movement you opponent can do with out using disengage. I realize  that this a small thing but it's a thing.

[extremor]

Regarding the Investigator in particular:

yes they would definitely be better with 1“ melee range. But they perform quite alright as backline denial. Keeping em in the back to use their scheme denial. Therefor I think they could use a  Build in trigger on their interrogation attack as an alternative to 1“ engagement. 

[extremor]

Next one: grasping tentacles 🦑 exploitation 

the emissarys grasping tentacles can probably be a very good way to slow several masters/crew in certain encounters down massively. In a Lucius crew there are several ways to copy the tentacles and make a whole board of grasping 🦑... channeling, agent and Doppel can mimic or just like you the aura and be moved forward by several other models. Therefore I think it might be cool to massively delay opponent’s movement..?? 
tentacles with stealth is a good way to get around enemy beaters and force shooting towards you (changelibgs and agent) maybe drop the doppelgänger for whatever...? Maybe 3 wicked doll  

 

New Lucius Mattheson Crew (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Mysterious Emissary
  Agent 46
  Doppleganger
  Changeling
  Changeling 2
  Guild Lawyer
  Changeling 3
 

[Regelridderen]

On 4/4/2021 at 1:22 PM, extremor said:

Next one: grasping tentacles 🦑 exploitation 

the emissarys grasping tentacles can probably be a very good way to slow several masters/crew in certain encounters down massively. In a Lucius crew there are several ways to copy the tentacles and make a whole board of grasping 🦑... channeling, agent and Doppel can mimic or just like you the aura and be moved forward by several other models. Therefore I think it might be cool to massively delay opponent’s movement..?? 
tentacles with stealth is a good way to get around enemy beaters and force shooting towards you (changelibgs and agent) maybe drop the doppelgänger for whatever...? Maybe 3 wicked doll  

 

New Lucius Mattheson Crew (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Mysterious Emissary
  Agent 46
  Doppleganger
  Changeling
  Changeling 2
  Guild Lawyer
  Changeling 3

[Regelridderen]

@extremor

I like the idea a lot, although I’d look into going for ‘Dora and Vasilisa to exploit it.

[extremor]

I had 2 games in which I took very similar lists. One against von schtook in which my opponent scored no vp until we called it a game. And second against zipp in which I got the upper hand turn 2 and 3 by killing models that didn’t activate before. 
 

my lists were:

Lucius Staples  (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 4
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Mature Nephilim
  Hinamatsu
  Alan Reid
  Guild Lawyer
  Changeling
    Ancient Pact
  Changeling 2
    Ancient Pact
 

 

and in the second game (no OOKs) I swapped mature for agent 46. 

 

I must say: 

1 dubble AP is awesome with that much card draw.

2. Alan Reid is my go to guy. I prefere him over agent since he can really Wrack the opponents game in many ways. Slow is awesome - esp with 1/3/4 and coordinated attack (stone if necessary). And then boring conversation with diversion and a scribe nearby. Not so amusing for my opponent. 

3. Hinamatsu was my flanking scheme hunter. Hard to take down if not in a deathzone and fast enough to scheme herself or kill enemy schemers. 

4. agent is all right. He dies too easily imho. I want him to be something he is not. Mature performed way better. maybe next time i will try hoody instead of 46. 

[Azkral]

I tried this list yesterday again Basse. I finally lost 4 3 after 4 turns. But we concluded that my list was very good:

Lucius+Totem 

Agent 46

Alan Reid

Doppleganger

Misterious emissary

Guild Lawyer

Changeling

Lot of ways to exploit roots from bellow

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 hours ago, Azkral said:

I tried this list yesterday again Basse. I finally lost 4 3 after 4 turns. But we concluded that my list was very good:

Lucius+Totem 

Agent 46

Alan Reid

Doppleganger

Misterious emissary

Guild Lawyer

Changeling

Lot of ways to exploit roots from bellow

This seems awesome, but with only Mysterious Emissary able to make hungry land markers, did you find it a bit tricky to run?

[Azkral]

Depends of the scenario. When I tried It my enemy was already in severe terrain before attacking him