Maniacal_cackle Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 One thing that impresses me about Wyrd is the lengths they go to keep models playable. Dead Man's Hand keeps dead characters around. Avatars can be emissaries. And even the Ramones now have their role as Rough Riders. Which got me thinking - is there any Malifaux model that doesn't have rules in M3E? If not, that's a pretty incredible achievement for a mini company. Good job, Wyrd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: One thing that impresses me about Wyrd is the lengths they go to keep models playable. Dead Man's Hand keeps dead characters around. Avatars can be emissaries. And even the Ramones now have their role as Rough Riders. Which got me thinking - is there any Malifaux model that doesn't have rules in M3E? If not, that's a pretty incredible achievement for a mini company. Good job, Wyrd! No, every Malifaux model has still got rules. (I'm going to add a few caveats though, the Drill sergent and Guard Captain from first edition Probably became Dashel and the Guard Sergeant. At least that's how I used mine in M2 and my Drill sergent is now counting as a dispatcher. Avatars only have rules as Emissary of fate, so the fact I have at least 3 for each of the "real" factions I don't really need that many. I think the only "story" model they made in the first two editions was the Carver, which now has rules. (By Story I mean model that was only usable in a special encounter). There are a few cases were the rare limits have changed (more so from M2e to 3, than from 1-2). Hamlin was originally a 40 mm model (minion) before he got promoted to Master, but that model was him and Nix, so if you really wanted you could have based it onto 2 separate bases. I can't think of another Base size change off the top of my head unless you count the hanged Eric and Nathan that were a different size to the hanged, but they became Montressor legal proxies in M2e. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Wowza, that is super impressive! Go Wyrd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Wowza, that is super impressive! Go Wyrd! Every edition change has had the game get larger, so its not been all that hard (At least from the outside. I'm sure its been a pain to try and get rules that make sense for a model somewhere). I forgot to put in faction changes, which gets a bit messier. This almost certainly isn't complete, but its a fair idea. (I'm also ignoring the cross faction hiring that used to exist) Raptors started as Arcanist (although only hireable with Marcus, Guild Austringers or Zoraida), and have now switched to guild. TT brothers used to be Outcast, before there was a TT faction Most of the Bayou were outcast before there was a bayou faction The Silurid Family all switched from Neverborn to Bayou Killjoy and Barabos swapped around in an Outcast/neverborn Transfer deal. Heyridden moved to neverborn from ressers. The Ramones changed model that they were a proxy for And that doesn't cover all those models that were duel faction, but are no longer duel faction. But in general I would have said that most people will have been able to change editions whilst still being able to make a legal list in the new edition which is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: If not, that's a pretty incredible achievement for a mini company. Good job, Wyrd! I dunno - IMO it seems kinda standard. GW yeah, but they are sorta anomalous. Other than GW I can't think of many minis games that have obsoleted minis completely. The bug aliens from Infinity (not actually sure whether they count as something in official tournaments)? Is there anything else? I'm hard pressed to think of any and I have forces for a stupid number of minis games. But maybe I'm overlooking something obvious? Disclaimer: I'm not intimately familiar with PP stuff. As an aside, outside of GW I have never had anywhere even remotely close to the number of minis getting obsoleted by an edition change as M2e->M3e did for me. Because even though I can still technically play them, I would need to buy and paint double the amount of stuff to make them even semi-competitive in friendly games (let alone tournaments). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Adran said: Raptors started as Arcanist (although only hireable with Marcus, Guild Austringers or Zoraida), and have now switched to guild. TT brothers used to be Outcast, before there was a TT faction Most of the Bayou were outcast before there was a bayou faction The Silurid Family all switched from Neverborn to Bayou Killjoy and Barabos swapped around in an Outcast/neverborn Transfer deal. Heyridden moved to neverborn from ressers. This all sounds like a player trade in the post season. I was good with the Barbaros/Killjoy trade; it gives us a strong safety that can be played in multiple positions, while Killjoy really wasn't getting it done on the offensive line any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 yeah any game company that negates a person's purchases isn't long for this world imo. I think that's what eventually killed warhammer right? changing too much edition to edition and always making some stuff useless that you needed 100 copies of before and now you need 100 copies of another model. I don't know one single person that plays warhammer fantasy now, and I used to know about 2-3 dozen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, ooshawn said: yeah any game company that negates a person's purchases isn't long for this world imo. I think that's what eventually killed warhammer right? changing too much edition to edition and always making some stuff useless that you needed 100 copies of before and now you need 100 copies of another model. I don't know one single person that plays warhammer fantasy now, and I used to know about 2-3 dozen Well, considering they killed the game I'd be surprised if you knew anyone that still played. I think what hurt more was not investing in creating good rules for Warhammer Fantasy as they didn't see it as financially viable as 40K. People can get over buying new models (heck most of us in the hobby are a bit obsessive in collecting - how many people do you know with stacks of unassembled/painted minis), but if the game itself isn't good then at some point you start to lose people. Wyrd however continues to make the game better and fresh so even if it stings a little now and them to lose a couple of things, most players keep playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 I thought it was still around they just called it something else. where they restarted the universe or some shit lol. I couldn't say though, I stopped playing like 2 years before that. They changed way too much edition to edition imo. Like with malifaux, I gotta sell my marcus crew, my kaeris crew, my every model but yanlo in yanlos crew(never bought yan lo), And several other models, because they added 1-3 essential models for every crew that I had in malifaux that all cost 15-50$ to get. I can't imagine having 120 dark elves being invalidated especially after painting them. Yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgybeans Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Yeah it is now Age of Sigmar (AoS) and it is slightly more like a skirmish game, but for me it is ruined, a lot of the rules don't make sense (in my opinion) and although the models are cool it's not worth buying into because I don't want to play it. I think since WHFB ended I have bought exactly 1 model from my local gamestore, and 1 starter box cheap on ebay, with a couple of extras, and that's just so I can play with friends who want to go to tournaments and need things testing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 They blew up the whole world and rewrote the story. Completely threw decades of IP out the window imo. But hey, some people claim they like AoS, but I've never seen it played anywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgybeans Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, ooshawn said: yeah any game company that negates a person's purchases isn't long for this world imo. I think that's what eventually killed warhammer right? changing too much edition to edition and always making some stuff useless that you needed 100 copies of before and now you need 100 copies of another model. I don't know one single person that plays warhammer fantasy now, and I used to know about 2-3 dozen Unfortunately the models are great so people still collect and play. And it's not like GW are doing badly as a company. I think last year they recorded record profits and growth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 To be fair they make the best models, but They also have like a dozen games, and are riding the wave of being the most well known table top company. and sell paints , etc, etc. their revenue stream is pretty diverse. I would be interested in comparing the number of daily warhammer fantasy players vs the number of daily AOS players like you can on steam lol. They also get more expensive every year and expand every model and paint line every single year, so it's hard not to make more money every single year. it's also why they depend so heavily on attracting new players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerZaka Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Higgybeans said: Unfortunately the models are great so people still collect and play. And it's not like GW are doing badly as a company. I think last year they recorded record profits and growth! They are far from doing bad. In the last 5 years (since the release of the official rules of AoS and then even more with the new ones for 40k) their stock market value Skyrocketed up like crazy . And just in the first half of the 2020 (in the middle of the first part of the pandemic situation) their income growth by 10%. Go for an extremely easier game has been criticized from the back-then community but it was 110% a win for them . Wyrd kinda followed the same route from 2E to 3E and in my opinion it was the perfect choice . Ok , it wasn't a complete rule reboot like Warhammer but still it is easier now. The only problem is than they weren't ready to the increment of requests like Gw that have their own workshops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Yeah I don't think anyone can say they are doing bad as a whole by any measure for sure. To be fair though, do you think wyrd as a much smaller company would have been as okay if they had nixed malifaux for the other side? they'd be so screwed lol. Or just said, gremlins, nah. Those are paper weights now. Plus malifaux is a 70$ game. Warhammer fantasy is a 1000$ game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 That's why I left for malifaux almost a decade ago. I saw the writing on the wall when they introduced summoning. I was like ... these greedy mfers are trying to take a 1000$ game and make it into a 1500$ game lol. plus I loved hauling my little 7 man malifaux crews around and having fun playing for 12 hours at a time for 70$. I've had wyrd's back ever since 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlekin Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, ooshawn said: To be fair they make the best models Hell, no. Definitely not. Btt: 9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: is there any Malifaux model that doesn't have rules in M3E? Oiran are gone, aren't they? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Harlekin said: Oiran are gone, aren't they? They are just renamed to Kunoichi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlekin Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, santaclaws01 said: They are just renamed to Kunoichi. D'uh. Stupid me. Faced them twice. Never really payed attention as they were just some unpainted miniatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 CoolMiniOrNot - Archaon by KAHA I beg to differ lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchdown Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 GW minis are pretty amazing. Even if you don't like how they look the technical accomplishments they have hiding mold lines etc is above what anyone is doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 GW is technically nice and all... But I've got a Frankenstein creation holding an ice cream cone with a grafted tentacle, and another model carting around a severed head in a baby pram. Malifaux models all the way for me xD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 There isn't a mini that doesn't have rules, however isn't there is a rule that doesn't have rules any more... paralyzed? or was it always stunned? shit I can't even remember any more. new pandora makes me sad inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 minute ago, ooshawn said: There isn't a mini that doesn't have rules, however isn't there is a rule that doesn't have rules any more... paralyzed? or was it always stunned? shit I can't even remember any more. new pandora makes me sad inside They dropped tons of conditions in the edition change, yeah. Streamlined tons of abilities too. Overall it is quite a good thing, IMO, but sometimes an ability should have been further split IMO (leap for example). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 the new rules are very nice. if they changed stunned to slow on pandora, I probably wouldn't ever play any other master tbh. my pandora crew is my baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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