Jedzas "inevitability of death" vs Disarming

[Icebeard]

We had an interesting interaction in a game the other day, and got curious about what the right answer would be. 

So the three models and abilities involved where:

Jedza with "inevitability of death" 

Lamplighter with "Unnatural glow" 

Candy with "Disarm" 

 

The Lamplighter attacked Candy, and ended up healing candy for 3.  

Candy flipped crows, so since no trigger was declared, she was able to declare "Disarming" 

Jedza used "inevitability of death" on the heal 3, changing it to damage instead. 

Now. The question is wether Candy is allowed to reduce that damage by 2, because of Disarming, or if the attack resolved with a heal, and therefore is irreducible by the defensive trigger, and the actual damage comes from Jedzas "inevitability of death" ability. 

 

We decided to call it in Jedzas favour, but can't say for sure what the right answer would be! What do you think? 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Icebeard said:

We had an interesting interaction in a game the other day, and got curious about what the right answer would be. 

So the three models and abilities involved where:

Jedza with "inevitability of death" 

Lamplighter with "Unnatural glow" 

Candy with "Disarm" 

 

The Lamplighter attacked Candy, and ended up healing candy for 3.  

Candy flipped crows, so since no trigger was declared, she was able to declare "Disarming" 

Jedza used "inevitability of death" on the heal 3, changing it to damage instead. 

Now. The question is wether Candy is allowed to reduce that damage by 2, because of Disarming, or if the attack resolved with a heal, and therefore is irreducible by the defensive trigger, and the actual damage comes from Jedzas "inevitability of death" ability. 

 

We decided to call it in Jedzas favour, but can't say for sure what the right answer would be! What do you think? 

dmg is dealt by jedza, so disarming doesnt work

[Adran]

Tough one, whilst jedza deals the damage, it is still being dealt whilst resolving. The trigger doesn't specify from the attacker, or the action. 

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Tough one, whilst jedza deals the damage, it is still being dealt whilst resolving. The trigger doesn't specify from the attacker, or the action. 

Yeah, there's a lack of specificity in Disarming that gives just enough wiggle room to say that Disarming could apply to the damage from Inevitability of death. There's certainly a strong argument that it's implied that it only reduces damage dealt by the action.

Are there any other effects that deal damage during the resolution of an action that isn't from the action being resolved? I know Parasitic Grasp does, but that's irreducible so doesn't really help.

[Rufess]

What happens if a model A attacks Candy and deals 2 damage, while the  damage also killed another model B whose demise ability deals another 2 damage to Candy?

Can Candy reduces both since all damages happen in same the attack action and suffer only 1+1 damage?

[Adran]

3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Are there any other effects that deal damage during the resolution of an action that isn't from the action being resolved? I know Parasitic Grasp does, but that's irreducible so doesn't really help.

Black blood, demise explosive, we are legion all do off the top of my head. Most aren't changed by betrayal as they are only 1 damage. 

They are also fairly convoluted to be able to get them to hit a model while it's under the betrayal trigger, but I think Rufus has one, that I can't see why betrayal won't work both times. 

[solkan]

Looking through the cards, there are NO defensive trigged of the form "When resolving... reduce the amount of damage this model suffers from the attack ..."  Every one which shows up in the search results is "When resolving ... reduce the damage this model suffers by ___". 

 

[Maladroit]

On 1/1/2021 at 7:51 AM, santaclaws01 said:

Yeah, there's a lack of specificity in Disarming that gives just enough wiggle room to say that Disarming could apply to the damage from Inevitability of death. There's certainly a strong argument that it's implied that it only reduces damage dealt by the action.

Are there any other effects that deal damage during the resolution of an action that isn't from the action being resolved? I know Parasitic Grasp does, but that's irreducible so doesn't really help.

Falling damage from a forced move or similar with hazardous terrain I guess. For example a model is within Sonnia's hazardous bubble and is obeyed to take an action is similar to the case described by the OP.

A similar question arises with 'drawn to pain', it just says if the model suffers damage not that the damage must have come from the attacker directly.

 

Edited to add example