Wishlist of changes for Guild

[Filox]

8 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Fair, make it so they apply a positive twist to the terrifying duel as well (can't come up with the wording right now). But literally the only issue I have with the crew is card economy and if I'm getting free draws on every attack that's no longer a problem. 

Please remember that Family has low damage output without cards in mass card drain keyword. And even with those cards, your damage output is mediocre compared to other offensive crews. Their durability is very low, only model who can take the hit is non-existent, even for aggressive keyword like Family. Master who is 6/6 with no defensive abilities outside trigger which prevents an throw away shot at the end of the turn. 

And terrifying is not the problem, problem is that this keyword has only 4 playable models which 3 are Rare 1 and 1 minion who is also mediocre scheme runner. Which make them unable to play any decent strategies and schemes.

[belorey]

Family needs a new Henchman (only keyword with Sonnia that has only one) and minions or make the minions we already have more useful.

Journalist needs to increase the range of the Exclusive interview or give a way to drop scheme markers. And they need also new enforcer and a way to give more damage or become more resistant.

[Filox]

26 minutes ago, belorey said:

Journalist needs to increase the range of the Exclusive interview or give a way to drop scheme markers. And they need also new enforcer and a way to give more damage or become more resistant.

I agree with a part about being a little bit more resilent and models which actually does something beside being control piece. 

[4thstringer]

48 minutes ago, Filox said:

I agree with a part about being a little bit more resilent and models which actually does something beside being control piece. 

I've heard in a couple podcasts the recommendation that distracted cancel off focus like fast and slow.  If its doing that, would that resolve the resiliency concerns?

[Filox]

5 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I've heard in a couple podcasts the recommendation that distracted cancel off focus like fast and slow.  If its doing that, would that resolve the resiliency concerns?

Not as much as you think. Problem with those models is that even thou they have serene and manipulative, they are still models with 4-6 Wounds with Df 5. Even though if focus would be canceled by Distracted, Nellie does not give out a lot of this condition anyway(Field Reporter, Alison and that's about it) to make it viable defensive tech, but at the end of the day it would help a little only against close combat crews. For Shooters it won't change at all and Fuhatsu will just blown them away anyway.

And yes, they also cost 4 - 6 SS per model, but those models are not even doing anything good or special. Most of the Nellie crews run with maximum of single Field Reporter. Rest of the crew goes full rambo or some other special tech. Similar case is in Colette, after her nerf and Distracted buff she would still run most of her crews OOK because those cheap control-tech models are not bringing much to the table. 

[belorey]

1 minute ago, 4thstringer said:

I've heard in a couple podcasts the recommendation that distracted cancel off focus like fast and slow.  If its doing that, would that resolve the resiliency concerns?

I think that would, at least, make more stronger the Journalist. But they still easy to kill.

But i still missing something in keyword to drop markers to shenanigams with Nellie's Twisting their Ideals.

It would be great if they get a big construct. A mix betwen Peacekeeper and Printing Press. A Sz3/50mm model with 2" and Armour +1 or +2. It could be the Recording Vehicle and could hace wheels and some cameras. 🤣 

[belorey]

3 minutes ago, belorey said:

It would be great if they get a big construct. A mix betwen Peacekeeper and Printing Press. A Sz3/50mm model with 2" and Armour +1 or +2. It could be the Recording Vehicle and could hace wheels and some cameras. 🤣 

I'm thinking, It could go with the word "Press" wrotten on the sides so It would have the Disguised abilite. (Like when the journalist go to war with their cars to not be atracked). 

[admiralvorkraft]

1 hour ago, Filox said:

 and Fuhatsu will just blown them away anyway.

Because Fuhatsu is over-tuned and doesn't allow counterplay. Bad baseline to work from. 

 

4 hours ago, Filox said:

Please remember that Family has low damage output without cards in mass card drain keyword. And even with those cards, your damage output is mediocre compared to other offensive crews. Their durability is very low, only model who can take the hit is non-existent, even for aggressive keyword like Family. Master who is 6/6 with no defensive abilities outside trigger which prevents an throw away shot at the end of the turn. 

And terrifying is not the problem, problem is that this keyword has only 4 playable models which 3 are Rare 1 and 1 minion who is also mediocre scheme runner. Which make them unable to play any decent strategies and schemes.

If you aren't killing anything you need killed with Family I'm sorry, but that's user error. They're in a similar position as the Viks - skirmish crews. Only Family has a 3-4 card tax per turn and no way to pay for it. Their durability is not great, would be fine if they got more cards. 

[Thatguy]

4 hours ago, belorey said:

Family needs a new Henchman (only keyword with Sonnia that has only one) and minions or make the minions we already have more useful.

 

1 hour ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Only Family has a 3-4 card tax per turn and no way to pay for it. Their durability is not great, would be fine if they got more cards. 

What about giving Abuela Ortega the bump to henchmen? You could make her a Sammy equivalent card draw engine. 

Zorida used to have a "Proper Manners" defense that gave out negative twists to anyone attacking her without using focus. Maybe upgraded Abuela could get something like that. And maybe replace "Nice Shot, Dear!" With something like: "So Well Behaved": When a Family model in 6" takes the focus action, draw a card.

I mean if Sandeep can get draw and other absurd value off concentrate why not Family? Family Values would get way better when in her range, so maybe the range would have to be tinkered with. "A Por Él" could also be used as focus stacking and card filtering making cheap family ie Pistoleros more attractive. 

 

I think adding a new family Henchman comes with the problem of explaining why they were missing from the fluff until now. 

[belorey]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

I think adding a new family Henchman comes with the problem of explaining why they were missing from the fluff until now. 

A cousin, brother, brother in law... they could even promote Niño to Henchamn and bring a new young guy to the family if they get more chldrens from the Hunters. 😂

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Zorida used to have a "Proper Manners" defense that gave out negative twists to anyone attacking her without using focus. Maybe upgraded Abuela could get something like that. And maybe replace "Nice Shot, Dear!" With something like: "So Well Behaved": When a Family model in 6" takes the focus action, draw a card.

I mean if Sandeep can get draw and other absurd value off concentrate why not Family? Family Values would get way better when in her range, so maybe the range would have to be tinkered with. "A Por Él" could also be used as focus stacking and card filtering making cheap family ie Pistoleros more attractive. 

Yeah, if Sandeep get all those stuff when a model concentrate i think Family could get it too. More card draw for a keyword who discard card is needed.

[admiralvorkraft]

Defensive tech ideas; adjust "nice shot" to be +1 to all duels outside their activation. 

And I maintain Finger on the Trigger needs to be a free action with the "ignoring engagement" qualifier. Both of those should help quite a bit without being boring. 

[Filox]

5 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Because Fuhatsu is over-tuned and doesn't allow counterplay. Bad baseline to work from. 

Fuhatsu is great example of super offensive henchmen. Comparing him to Francisco, Fuhatsu is harder to kill, brings more damage to the table. Francisco also has different job, that is correct, but Francisco won't hold long in combat, he will just get focused down way too quickly while Fuhatsu will probably shoot until the game ends.

 

5 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

If you aren't killing anything you need killed with Family I'm sorry, but that's user error. They're in a similar position as the Viks - skirmish crews. Only Family has a 3-4 card tax per turn and no way to pay for it. Their durability is not great, would be fine if they got more cards. 

 Viktorias are faster and have heal in keyword, great scheme runners, great offensive henchmen who brings utility also to the table, easy access to fast, great healer with good card draw. 

Family on the other hand have better range and better access to focus. For a game in which is all about mobility and being able to not die like pile of thrash, Family falls short, even on Guild standards.

57 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Defensive tech ideas; adjust "nice shot" to be +1 to all duels outside their activation. 

Please, don't make another Lenny, Do you know how cancerous is Big Hat?

57 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Defensive tech ideas; adjust "nice shot" to be +1 to all duels outside their activation. 

And I maintain Finger on the Trigger needs to be a free action with the "ignoring engagement" qualifier. Both of those should help quite a bit without being boring. 

I had an idea of ability being better Gunfighter... Gunslinger: This model may treat his  actions as  range 1" and can take  even if engaged. For being best gunner in entire Malifaux she does not show this very well.

And comparing Family to Kin is also another joke...

Also! Pistolero are the worst model in the game. Even Stolens deal more damage and bring more to the table then them,

[admiralvorkraft]

And again, Fuhatsu is a wildly overtuned model with no counter play options. He's a good example of everything I don't want to see in the game neatly wrapped up in one model. 

As for the Abuela thing? *shrug* you might be right. I think comparing one fragile lynchpin model to Bayou Bash is a bit disingenuous, and even then BB isn't the problem with that keyword. 

I'll stand by the Viks comparison because, as I mentioned, we're giving up half our hand in a turn to achieve similar impact on the board. If family were as good as mercenary they wouldn't merit tweaking. The point remains that the two crews want to play a similar style of game. 

[Maladroit]

Unfortunately my prediction of the next change to Journalist will be a nerf to Phiona. I think they'll look at how widely used she is OOK and decide that she needs to be toned down. While I agree with the process of nerfing overpowered models, I think Phiona should be seen as a symptom of problems in Guild instead.

[extremor]

I wish for the Investigator to get boring conversation as well as Alan Reid. Maybe with a stat of 5 instead of 7. then Investigators and false witnesses would make an awesome team!!! 

[Maniacal_cackle]

20 minutes ago, extremor said:

I wish for the Investigator to get boring conversation as well as Alan Reid. Maybe with a stat of 5 instead of 7. then Investigators and false witnesses would make an awesome team!!! 

Ressers get this combo, so there is precedence!

[extremor]

34 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Ressers get this combo, so there is precedence!

🤷🏻‍♀️ What exactly do you mean by that? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 minutes ago, extremor said:

🤷🏻‍♀️ What exactly do you mean by that? 

Philip and the Nanny has boring conversation, and you can combine it with Scarlet Temptation to get a minus flip on the WP duels.

So if Ressers can get it, don't see why Guild can't!

[extremor]

Just now, Maniacal_cackle said:

Philip and the Nanny has boring conversation, and you can combine it with Scarlet Temptation to get a minus flip on the WP duels.

So if Ressers can get it, don't see why Guild can't!

I see. Well guild also has it with Alan Reid having boring conversation and the witnesses having distraction. I want to buff the investigators since they are rarely taken. So in fact we would have 3 sources of boring conversation then and the witnesses+investigators combo would be pretty. 

[Zebo]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:47 PM, Filox said:

Also! Pistolero are the worst model in the game. Even Stolens deal more damage and bring more to the table then them,

Bad comparison, since Stolen are astonishingly good Totems. 

 

I would rather compare them with Desperate Mercenaries or Winged Plagues, where all three of them are fighting in the mud for being the worse 4ss model xDD. 

 

Yes, Pistolero are really bad and need some fix. I agree with that. 

What about allowing Bravado to use focus to reduce damage? Like "When this model suffers damage, it may reduce its Focused condition by one to reduce the damage by 1/2/3 that cannot be cheated"

Like using a ss but with a min of 1 damage. 

[4thstringer]

This is like waiting for the heat death of the universe.   

[belorey]

I want to think they are reading everything we post on forums and playtesting It... 😂

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

This is like waiting for the heat death of the universe.   

Actually, I think if you check the schedule, GG2 is scheduled for three weeks after the heat death of the universe.

[Filox]

When we get second big bang I hope Guild will be fixed by this time  

[Thatguy]

On 4/10/2021 at 1:05 AM, Zebo said:

I would rather compare them with Desperate Mercenaries or Winged Plagues, where all three of them are fighting in the mud for being the worse 4ss model xDD. 

I think Desperate Mercenaries just got a boost with Yannic, since they're cheap models with Rapid Fire, so they can take two shots a turn while drawing a card.