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Wishlist of changes for Guild


Filox

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17 minutes ago, trikk said:

Francisco doesn't have to have min 3. But Santiago would be good

Santiago it's not a beater, his job is other in Family. He really need to be Ruthless and change the wording of his Sober Up to take the Concentrate Action instead of give Focus +1.

You must think that you have Perdita 3 attacks (which the first one should be a min. 5 damage) and a potentially 6 shoots + Niño extra shoot. Then you have Francisco with his 3 attacks (potentially other 6 attacks) + Niño extra attack.

And Santiago can take with :mask 5 attacks + Niño extra attack. So if you increase his damage to 3/4/5 you get 3 killing machines.

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11 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

I think it's important to note that I actually really like Family as a keyword. It's just that they walk a razor's edge of resource management and anything that puts hand pressure on them can make them fold really quickly. A little bit more resilience in the face of that pressure is all I'm really asking for. 

I do think it's funny that basically since I've started the game in early 2e they have been so afraid of guns that they can't make Santiago a useful model.

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1 minute ago, 4thstringer said:

I do think it's funny that basically since I've started the game in early 2e they have been so afraid of guns that they can't make Santiago a useful model.

I got plenty of use out of Santiago late in 2e running him with Lucius, mining stones out of him and then companion activating to murder a couple things with that stat 7 and positives to dmg (or whatever it was). 

And I'm a lot less salty now that non-prjectile attacks are mitigated by concealing. 

Family works great when you draw crap cards and flip good ones. Their actions feel balanced around being able to spam them and if you can't then the action economy of the crew is all thrown off. Some resilience against hand shredding in the form of defensive tech and terrifying mitigation is all the crew "needs." More built in Family Values triggers (even just on the melee actions) would be nice but may be over tuning. 

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5 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I do think it's funny that basically since I've started the game in early 2e they have been so afraid of guns that they can't make Santiago a useful model.

I've got no experience with Family but I have some playing Bandit and against Kin, the other 2 big gun keywords, and reading Santiago's card it seems like he should be ok. If his damage track was reduced to 2/3/4 but a ram was built in, would that fix him or is the problem deeper?

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1 hour ago, touchdown said:

I've got no experience with Family but I have some playing Bandit and against Kin, the other 2 big gun keywords, and reading Santiago's card it seems like he should be ok. If his damage track was reduced to 2/3/4 but a ram was built in, would that fix him or is the problem deeper?

He is also way too squishy. 5/6 with no defensive abilities when Kin always has Flinch and The Bigger They Are putting them most of the time 6/6 with Shielded +1Bandits has Run & Gun so they can put out more pressure then Family and do it faster while also having easy access to Fast and Df triggers or HtK.

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21 hours ago, touchdown said:

I've got no experience with Family but I have some playing Bandit and against Kin, the other 2 big gun keywords, and reading Santiago's card it seems like he should be ok. If his damage track was reduced to 2/3/4 but a ram was built in, would that fix him or is the problem deeper?

 

I don't think that damage output is his issue.  I've had games where, allowed to do his thing and not facing terrifying, that he is an absolute terror.

The problem is that a perdita crew can't afford to spend cards on defense, and he has no defense.  Because the crew also suffers from needing cards, even a discard for phiona or a guardian feels really really bad.

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4 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

The problem is that a perdita crew can't afford to spend cards on defense, and he has no defense.  Because the crew also suffers from needing cards, even a discard for phiona or a guardian feels really really bad

100% agree thats why i never pick Phiona with Family, i cannot spend a card on a Take the Hit.

They need shielded or something to be more resistant.

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I'm not sure Family needs Ruthless bto face Neverborn... You know, both terrifying and manipulative are way more common in ressers than in NB. 

I would definitely not put Stealth on Nino, he seems quite fine for me. 

But. 

Agree with kw lacking protection.

What if, instead shielded, Bravado would give something like "if this model has the Focused condition, it may add the value on its focused condition to any Wp and Df duels, up to +2"

It would protect them without adding more damage reduction, and would help with Terrifying without completely ignoring it. And would help every model. 

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53 minutes ago, Zebo said:

I'm not sure Family needs Ruthless bto face Neverborn... You know, both terrifying and manipulative are way more common in ressers than in NB. 

Resser: 11 models Terrifying / 5 models Manipulative

NB: 9 models / 5 models

There is no a big difference. So if think Family need 2/3 models with Ruthless. Santiago + Hunters are my options.

58 minutes ago, Zebo said:

What if, instead shielded, Bravado would give something like "if this model has the Focused condition, it may add the value on its focused condition to any Wp and Df duels, up to +2"

I like it, but they would loose their 4" push. I think shielded is the right answer because we already see on KIN keyword that works but without breaking the game.

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28 minutes ago, belorey said:

Resser: 11 models Terrifying / 5 models Manipulative

NB: 9 models / 5 models

There is no a big difference. So if think Family need 2/3 models with Ruthless. Santiago + Hunters are my options.

Sure, I forgot that if I search "manipulative" In the app, it also shows all the Ruthless models. 

But in Terrifying is ressers 13 vs NB 9.

30 minutes ago, belorey said:
1 hour ago, Zebo said:

 

I like it, but they would loose their 4" push. I think shielded is the right answer because we already see on KIN keyword that works but without breaking the game.

I meant having the push + the extra rule. Not against the shielded option, but that also helps with terrifying without giving more ruthless, wich I disagree ANY crew needs two models. Guild is not so weak agains terrifying to add two extra options. 

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3 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Sure, I forgot that if I search "manipulative" In the app, it also shows all the Ruthless models. 

But in Terrifying is ressers 13 vs NB 9.

Who is the "specialist" against Resser? Lady Justice, and they have 3 models (1 enforcer + 1 minion 2) with ruthless.

Who is the "specialist" against NB? Perdita, and she has none. So you need to spend 11 on Rider, 10ss on the Lone Marshal. I did It and works, but that become useless models like Monster Hunters o Pistolero that there are never played.

If the Hunters get the Ruthless instead of Heed No Fear. We'll have an option to pick them in too many games.

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17 hours ago, belorey said:

Who is the "specialist" against Resser? Lady Justice, and they have 3 models (1 enforcer + 1 minion 2) with ruthless.

Who is the "specialist" against NB? Perdita, and she has none. So you need to spend 11 on Rider, 10ss on the Lone Marshal. I did It and works, but that become useless models like Monster Hunters o Pistolero that there are never played.

If the Hunters get the Ruthless instead of Heed No Fear. We'll have an option to pick them in too many games.

The specialist thing is a silly theme that ends up not being real because you don't want to ruin one factions matchups.

The problem with perdita into nb is that, with the exception of nb Lucius, I don't like perdita into any of the more common nb masters

Dreamer- all that terrifying?  No thanks.

Titania?  Getting into me t1, hitting well and putting hazardous under me?  My crew melts.

Pandora- probably perditas best matchup, but still gets that terrifying going.

Zoraida?  A bunch of stealth/butterfly jump models leaping past me. (Not as bad with Elite z than swampy z)

Marcus- this one might be ok.  Better match than arc marcus at least. The stealth upgrade and speed are still worrisome.

Euri- I think I like this matchup, but I'd have to see it on the table 

 

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20 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

The specialist thing is a silly theme that ends up not being real because you don't want to ruin one factions matchups.

The problem with perdita into nb is that, with the exception of nb Lucius, I don't like perdita into any of the more common nb masters

Dreamer- all that terrifying?  No thanks.

Titania?  Getting into me t1, hitting well and putting hazardous under me?  My crew melts.

Pandora- probably perditas best matchup, but still gets that terrifying going.

Zoraida?  A bunch of stealth/butterfly jump models leaping past me. (Not as bad with Elite z than swampy z)

Marcus- this one might be ok.  Better match than arc marcus at least. The stealth upgrade and speed are still worrisome.

Euri- I think I like this matchup, but I'd have to see it on the table 

 

I have played the Perdita in to Euri a few times. its very hard to predict. the extra shots from "a por el" are a very nice counter to hard to kill sneaking (usually with nino) in before they have the chance to heal back up

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50 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

The specialist thing is a silly theme that ends up not being real because you don't want to ruin one factions matchups.

The problem with perdita into nb is that, with the exception of nb Lucius, I don't like perdita into any of the more common nb masters

Dreamer- all that terrifying?  No thanks.

Titania?  Getting into me t1, hitting well and putting hazardous under me?  My crew melts.

Pandora- probably perditas best matchup, but still gets that terrifying going.

Zoraida?  A bunch of stealth/butterfly jump models leaping past me. (Not as bad with Elite z than swampy z)

Marcus- this one might be ok.  Better match than arc marcus at least. The stealth upgrade and speed are still worrisome.

Euri- I think I like this matchup, but I'd have to see it on the table 

 

Agree, i think Pandora, Eurípides and Marcus are their best match up.

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If i could make some changes on Journalist should be:

1) :tome Headline: Secret Exposed!: Enemy only. Target must take the Interact action, even if engaged, controlled by this model.

They keyword has many interacts with schemes but you can only make that enemies drop schemes if they are within 2" of your models so Arson Attack or Slander trigger becomes very dificult to rent.

2) i would give to Field Reporter a new Action. It could be One More Question or a new one.

3) New models are always welcome 😁

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Oh yeah, what do you guys think about Witchling keyword? I think the idea is nice, though they are way too weak to be decent hireables. It's true that you can run 15" and make a hit for 3/5/7 with Thrall, although they die way too easily with no real defensive tech to help them stay more then 1 turn in combat. I would personally like to see them gain like 1 more Wd or Arcane Shielded as Witch Hunters have. And maybe Witchling Handler could buff any Witchling, instead of Witchling minion with it's Mv bonus. It would open a way for enforcer/henchmen Witchling model in the future.

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42 minutes ago, Filox said:

Oh yeah, what do you guys think about Witchling keyword? I think the idea is nice, though they are way too weak to be decent hireables. It's true that you can run 15" and make a hit for 3/5/7 with Thrall, although they die way too easily with no real defensive tech to help them stay more then 1 turn in combat. I would personally like to see them gain like 1 more Wd or Arcane Shielded as Witch Hunters have. And maybe Witchling Handler could buff any Witchling, instead of Witchling minion with it's Mv bonus. It would open a way for enforcer/henchmen Witchling model in the future.

The +2 move on any witchling would make the totem a scheme runner that we are not supposed to have in guild : 7mv incorporeal and a bonus action to move 4" would be quite impressive

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