4thstringer Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 6 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said: Oh, and ONE Ruthless Family member. They're supposed to be monster hunters. Santiago, or, you know, the Monster Hunters. This is the one that gets me. Family being so bad into terrifying feels so anti thematic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 Strength in numbers: If this model is the crew's leader, all friendly Family models gain Ruthless. Perhaps would be a bit unusual since I'm not sure that they allow an ability to name another ability like this, but the text makes sense. So could possibly include the definition: If this model is the crew's leader, all friendly Family models gain Ruthless (they ignore Manipulative and Terrifying). I guess Ruthless names other abilities, so it isn't THAT odd! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 7 hours ago, 4thstringer said: This is the one that gets me. Family being so bad into terrifying feels so anti thematic. And they need some DF tech. Something like: Bravado: After this model takes the concentrate Action, it may push 4" toward an enemie model in its LoS or gain Shielded +2. This and some Ruthless on Family models should be a good add. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 On 2/20/2021 at 9:55 PM, Maniacal_cackle said: Strength in numbers: If this model is the crew's leader, all friendly Family models gain Ruthless. Perhaps would be a bit unusual since I'm not sure that they allow an ability to name another ability like this, but the text makes sense. So could possibly include the definition: If this model is the crew's leader, all friendly Family models gain Ruthless (they ignore Manipulative and Terrifying). I guess Ruthless names other abilities, so it isn't THAT odd! I like this idea. But I don't think of Family as Ruthless so much as Brave. Like they fight scary monsters, not gun down innocents. I think I'd like something like- Reckless Bravery when this model fails a Terrifying test, it may lose a Wound to count as passing and gain Fast. Or something. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 52 minutes ago, Thatguy said: I like this idea. But I don't think of Family as Ruthless so much as Brave. Like they fight scary monsters, not gun down innocents. I think I'd like something like- Reckless Bravery when this model fails a Terrifying test, it may lose a Wound to count as passing and gain Fast. Or something. I love this. Maybe on Perdita "Blood on the Line; leader only, suffer 1 damage after a friendly Family model fails a Terrifying dual the friendly model passes their dual and immediately gains focus +1." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Thatguy said: I like this idea. But I don't think of Family as Ruthless so much as Brave. Like they fight scary monsters, not gun down innocents. I think I'd like something like- Reckless Bravery when this model fails a Terrifying test, it may lose a Wound to count as passing and gain Fast. Or something. I think i would give Ruthless to Monster Hunter and Santiago Ortega. No the entire keyword. And Family really lack from def tech. So i still think Bravado with a 4" push or shielded +1 or +2 it's the answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 I think they need some defense tech too. I think I'd prefer them getting armor over easy access to easy shielded. I know I wouldn't want to deal with Family beaters with LLC + shielded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filox Posted February 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Thatguy said: I think they need some defense tech too. I think I'd prefer them getting armor over easy access to easy shielded. I know I wouldn't want to deal with Family beaters with LLC + shielded. If model for 9SS (and hench) only does mediocre damage and nothing else then it is not good model. Also the fact that most Beaters in GU are relying on LLC to even be viable in comparison to models in other factions. Like Captain in Arcanists for comparison to Judge does so much more then him, that being losing some Toughness (thou being 6/5 is better then 5/6 and on top of that he has easy access to positives and amazing anti shooty tech en masse) for great utility tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 9 hours ago, Thatguy said: I think they need some defense tech too. I think I'd prefer them getting armor over easy access to easy shielded. I know I wouldn't want to deal with Family beaters with LLC + shielded. I think i prefer to face Perdita/Francisco... With LLC + shielded +1/+2 that LLC + 1 armor because after two attacks the shielded goes but armor stack there every attack of every turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 I'm mostly worried about Francisco being unkillable with LLC+Grit+ Shielded meaning knocking off 3 damage before getting into soulstone prevention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 43 minutes ago, Thatguy said: I'm mostly worried about Francisco being unkillable with LLC+Grit+ Shielded meaning knocking off 3 damage before getting into soulstone prevention. Seems like a LLC problem to me... just swapping Hunker Down and Armor +1 as far as the minion only ability should do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 50 minutes ago, Thatguy said: I'm mostly worried about Francisco being unkillable with LLC+Grit+ Shielded meaning knocking off 3 damage before getting into soulstone prevention. I think the problem there is LLC. Maybe they should change it (with other upgrades like 10T Trained Ninja or Arcanist Soulstone Cache). Aniway: Justicia, Sonia, Perdita and maybe other modelos should need extra wounds or sonething. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchdown Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 22 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said: I love this. Maybe on Perdita "Blood on the Line; leader only, suffer 1 damage after a friendly Family model fails a Terrifying dual the friendly model passes their dual and immediately gains focus +1." A think a fun ability would be: Calm the nerves: during this models activation, when it flips 1 or more cards as part of a duel, it may gain +1 poison. If it does so, it gains +4 wp. Not sure if it actually fits family though. Just thinking out loud (in text?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 Yeah. I think it is a LLC problem, but I feel like nerfing LLC would be like kicking the crutch out from underneath a lot of Guild crews. 7 minutes ago, touchdown said: A think a fun ability would be: Calm the nerves: during this models activation, when it flips 1 or more cards as part of a duel, it may gain +1 poison. If it does so, it gains +4 wp. Not sure if it actually fits family though. Just thinking out loud (in text?) I like it. Maybe more of an Asylum/Experimental ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, Thatguy said: Yeah. I think it is a LLC problem, but I feel like nerfing LLC would be like kicking the crutch out from underneath a lot of Guild crews. Yes, totally agree, most of Guild masters are too dependant of LLC (even some Henchman and Enforcers). I think they should looking for a way to keep the def tech on LLC but changing the armour to only minions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, Thatguy said: I like it. Maybe more of an Asylum/Experimental ability. Call it "Anti-Psychotics: Once per activation when a friendly model within aura 6 would fail a wp duel it may immediately gain Poison +1 to add +2 to the result." Replace Research Specimens on the orderlies and Heartsbane with that and there would actually be a reason to take them. Especially if Emergency Surgery became a claw attack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filox Posted February 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 Why when it comes to increasing defensive potential of a model you guys just think about damage reduction? Maybe instead of stacking 3 different damage reduction abilities on one model we should think why this model needs needs it in a first place. Increasing Df stats to 6 is already big in it's own. We can also give Manipulative, Flexible Morality or Combat Finesse. Maybe some cheeky heal or Disguised, we can even add Defensive trigger like Squeal. Maybe we can put Protected on important models. Maybe just positives to Df & Wp. Entire M&SU and Chimera Works about this idea just fine. And yes, Santiago defiently should has Ruthless. So backing up to topic, we don't have to push Shielded one keyword only to brake LLC. LLC should be situational and most of the GU players play with 46SS because of a gap in model efficiency. We can also increase mobility to be able to better pick they fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filox Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 By the way, Family really needs a weak 3 damage track model. Focusing is nice but to get value from it you need to have a severes & moderates on hand (which family has problem with) and sometimes you need to slap the enemy for weaks. We can theoretically remove Grit from Fransisco to improve Bravado with shielding as giving him something to buff keyword beside being only offensive tech. Add tome trigger Dita main attack, give Nino stealth, give Santiago defense 6 and Ruthless as redesigning Pistolero. Maybe change Finesse for Combat Finesse in Fransisco while giving Df trigger that actually does something, like friendly family model within 6" can take concentrate action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filox Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 And if you guys want I can update this post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Filox said: By the way, Family really needs a weak 3 damage track model. I'm surprised that Family don't have a couple built in Critical Strikes. That used to be Guild's bread and butter in first and second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 8 hours ago, Thatguy said: I'm surprised that Family don't have a couple built in Critical Strikes. That used to be Guild's bread and butter in first and second. The game has really moved away from built in triggers generally, so it's not too surprising to me. 11 hours ago, Filox said: By the way, Family really needs a weak 3 damage track model. Focusing is nice but to get value from it you need to have a severes & moderates on hand (which family has problem with) and sometimes you need to slap the enemy for weaks. We can theoretically remove Grit from Fransisco to improve Bravado with shielding as giving him something to buff keyword beside being only offensive tech. Add tome trigger Dita main attack, give Nino stealth, give Santiago defense 6 and Ruthless as redesigning Pistolero. Maybe change Finesse for Combat Finesse in Fransisco while giving Df trigger that actually does something, like friendly family model within 6" can take concentrate action. Maybe give Franc Middle of the Storm? I don't have trouble keeping him alive in melee really - even without LLC (which I refuse to use). I'd go for a model with built in Crit strike over min 3. Though as I said above, I'm not surprised that we don't have that already. 'Dita either needs Family Values moved to her pistol or built into Analyze Weakness, I'm fine either way. Then add "ignoring engagement" to Finger on the Trigger so it actually works and we're good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 11 hours ago, Filox said: By the way, Family really needs a weak 3 damage track model. Focusing is nice but to get value from it you need to have a severes & moderates on hand (which family has problem with) and sometimes you need to slap the enemy for weaks. We can theoretically remove Grit from Fransisco to improve Bravado with shielding as giving him something to buff keyword beside being only offensive tech. Add tome trigger Dita main attack, give Nino stealth, give Santiago defense 6 and Ruthless as redesigning Pistolero. Maybe change Finesse for Combat Finesse in Fransisco while giving Df trigger that actually does something, like friendly family model within 6" can take concentrate action. Family can put too much damage with high card cost, i'm agree on that but having critical strike on most of the models i would not give a min 3 damage on them, because is too much. All my Family changes in one post: Bravado: After this model takes the concentrate Action, it may push 4" toward an enemie model in its LoS or gain Shielded +2. (Maybe shielded +1 is enought) Perdita: Family Values on her Custom Peacebringer. Grit (Frantic or Hardened) if they nerf LLC. Francisco: Grit (Hardened): i would take off because of the new Bravado rule. Santiago: Ruthless: This model ignores Terrifying and Manipulative Abilities of other models. Sober Up: RG 6" Stat 6 TN 12: End one condition on the target. If the target is a friendly model, it may take Concentrate Action. Niño: Stealth: Enemy models cannot target this model from more than 6" away. Papa Loco: Throw Dynamite: Add new trigger: Trash: Remove all destructible terrain within 2. Ruthless: I am not sure about this, but you know, this man is crazy so... why not? Monster Hunter: Change Heed No Fear for Ruthless. Custom Firearm: Add new trigger: Hunter's Toxins: Target gains Injured +1 and Poison +1. Pistolero del Látigo: Change Fistful of Scrip for Hard to Kill. +1 wound. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filox Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 42 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said: 'Dita either needs Family Values moved to her pistol or built into Analyze Weakness It;s already built it on Analyze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 47 minutes ago, belorey said: Family can put too much damage with high card cost, i'm agree on that but having critical strike on most of the models i would not give a min 3 damage on them, because is too much. I'd rather have min 3 than crit strike 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, Filox said: It;s already built it on Analyze Oh sh!t it is! I've been playing myself then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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