Rules question for the world series.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I have a couple rules questions for the world series (which have previously been discussed on the rules forums).

1. Do strategy markers count as valid terrain for the purposes of abilities?
   1. Can Seamus Secret passage through leylines?
   2. Can favourable terrain count the impassable terrain?
2. Can Bete Noire use her bonus action (target a corpse marker and remove it to charge) even when unburied and on the table?

These are both ambiguous-ish areas of the rules, so would be good to have something clear cut.

 

[Legislat]

Ill join. Does strategy markers count for the damage on Nellies Twisting Their Ideals? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Legislat said:

Ill join. Does strategy markers count for the damage on Nellies Twisting Their Ideals? 

Nope, that one has been answered in the FAQ for the series.

[Alcathous]

We'll get some answers added to the tournement faq within a couple days.

[santaclaws01]

2 minutes ago, Alcathous said:

We'll get some answers added to the tournement faq within a couple days.

Could also do with some explorer's related FAQ's.

How healing at max health with We Are Legion works is definitely a big one.

[Alcathous]

2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Could also do with some explorer's related FAQ's.

How healing at max health with We Are Legion works is definitely a big one.

We've got some lined up, and I'll add We Are Legion to the list. Feel free to drop anything else here if you think it need to go in the faq.

[solkan]

11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Can Seamus Secret passage through leylines?

Seamus should be able to, because he doesn't target (or even 'choose') the Blocking strategy marker.  It isn't really any different than using Secret Passage and taking advantage of someone leaving Ice Pillars in favorable positions.   

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, solkan said:

Seamus should be able to, because he doesn't target (or even 'choose') the Blocking strategy marker.  It isn't really any different than using Secret Passage and taking advantage of someone leaving Ice Pillars in favorable positions.   

That's what I think the more I think of it, it just felt a bit of a dirty tactic and wanted to check xD.

The part that especially convinces me is that if the answer is no for seamus, a lot of other abilities behave weirdly too.

[belorey]

Torakages  action should be clarificated.

Can they use shadow markers or friendly shadow markers?

I think should be friendly, but needs a FAQ for tournament.

[Adran]

I'm not playing, so feel free to ignore, but I don't understand the gunfigher answer.

Do you say during the action if you are engaging or not, in which case can you outright deny disengage and charge actions, and prevent walk actions leaving, or do you decide before the opponent says what action it is taking?

[Alcathous]

24 minutes ago, Adran said:

Do you say during the action if you are engaging or not, in which case can you outright deny disengage and charge actions, and prevent walk actions leaving, or do you decide before the opponent says what action it is taking?

The intent is the Gunfighter must choose before the opponent declares any actions. Gunfighters shouldn't be able able negate actions just by existing. Ty for mentioning it, we'll clarify the language before the next event.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Oh, I don't think this answer is in the FAQ...

Does terrain height matter for concealing? I notice many of the concealing types of terrain have a height listed. If one model is taller than the concealing terrain, can you ignore it? There was a big discussion on the rules forums about it:

 

[Insomniakwulf]

No you can't ignore concealing as concealing deals with sight lines, not Line of Sight, an obvious example of this would be underbrush markers being ht 0, they would be pointless if you could ignore them if you were ht 1 or greater, as would alot of other markers. 

[Mycellanious]

I think we could really use an FAQ for page 50: “If a model is ever without any of its base supported by terrain or the table, that model falls […].” Nearly every opponent I’ve played has had a different interpretation of this passage, and there doesn’t really seem to be one that I see more often that the others. To date I’ve heard:
 

1.      If any part of the model’s base overhangs the terrain, it immediately falls

                         a.      This can result in an extra half inch to an inch of movement from the size of the model's base

                                                                                                 or

                         b.      This cannot grant extra movement, so the model can only overhang and fall if it has the movement to completely clear the terrain with its base.

 

2.      The model only falls if its base is completely unsupported. If any part of the model is on the terrain, it is considered on top of the terrain piece.

 

3.      If at least 50% of the model’s base is unsupported, the model falls off the terrain. This can result is extra movement.

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 hours ago, Insomniakwulf said:

No you can't ignore concealing as concealing deals with sight lines, not Line of Sight, an obvious example of this would be underbrush markers being ht 0, they would be pointless if you could ignore them if you were ht 1 or greater, as would alot of other markers. 

Is that the official (for the Vassal series) answer then?

[Insomniakwulf]

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Is that the official (for the Vassal series) answer then?

Yes count this as an official ruling 😅

[Mycellanious]

Could we get a clarification on who gets kill credit when a model dies from a Blast from the Bombs in Yer Belly upgrade? 

[Plaag]

2 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

Could we get a clarification on who gets kill credit when a model dies from a Blast from the Bombs in Yer Belly upgrade? 

i think blast is a part of action of a model, so sparks just create additional marker but not kill target

[Plaag]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:18 PM, Mycellanious said:

I think we could really use an FAQ for page 50: “If a model is ever without any of its base supported by terrain or the table, that model falls […].” Nearly every opponent I’ve played has had a different interpretation of this passage, and there doesn’t really seem to be one that I see more often that the others. To date I’ve heard:
 

1.      If any part of the model’s base overhangs the terrain, it immediately falls

                         a.      This can result in an extra half inch to an inch of movement from the size of the model's base

                                                                                                 or

                         b.      This cannot grant extra movement, so the model can only overhang and fall if it has the movement to completely clear the terrain with its base.

 

2.      The model only falls if its base is completely unsupported. If any part of the model is on the terrain, it is considered on top of the terrain piece.

 

3.      If at least 50% of the model’s base is unsupported, the model falls off the terrain. This can result is extra movement.

2 is correct, wyrd doesnt clarify what means "supported",  but we can see word "any"

if we will think in logical way and in real life-u need more than half of your  base to make model stand on the terrain, because of the balance

and i often hear from my opp-they want to climb up with move, not walk action-this is not correct-u can climb up only with walk action

[Adran]

53 minutes ago, Plaag said:

2 is correct, wyrd doesnt clarify what means "supported",  but we can see word "any"

if we will think in logical way and in real life-u need more than half of your  base to make model stand on the terrain, because of the balance

and i often hear from my opp-they want to climb up with move, not walk action-this is not correct-u can climb up only with walk action

Unfortunately in English "without any of its base supported" can mean both all the base must be supported or all of the base must be unsupported to switch from one to the other. About the only thing I can say for certain it doesn't mean half the base. 

[santaclaws01]

16 hours ago, Adran said:

Unfortunately in English "without any of its base supported" can mean both all the base must be supported or all of the base must be unsupported to switch from one to the other. About the only thing I can say for certain it doesn't mean half the base. 

I don't see a way to interpret "Ever without any of it's base supported" to mean anything other than if any amount of the base is supported, it doesn't fall.

[Adran]

5 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

I don't see a way to interpret "Ever without any of it's base supported" to mean anything other than if any amount of the base is supported, it doesn't fall.

If I'm 1/3 on and 2/3 off then I'm without 2/3 my base supported. 

I might be grammatically wrong (I really haven't got a clue), but I can read it that if any part of the base is unsupported then that meets the criteria. I can also read it as if all of the base is unsupported then it meets the criteria. 

[santaclaws01]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

If I'm 1/3 on and 2/3 off then I'm without 2/3 my base supported. 

Ever without any = ever with no. It's not a phrase that's telling you to check the entirety of the base to see if there's any part that is still supported. It's definitely the most convoluted and dense way to word it, and takes some unpacking.

If the grammatical argument isn't good enough we can also look at the history of falling rules in 3e and ask where are the codified falling rules for how to award the free extra movement to a model that we had in the beta, and why did that section get removed when this phrase was added in.

[Domin]

Two questions to be included (I hope) in a FAQ:

1. Does the "not already chosen for this Ability this Activation" in We Are Legion Ability works on a "once per model per activation" basis, as all the "once by" effects?

For example, if the enemy model with a parasite token is within 4" of 4 Cadmus models an all 4 these models are hit by a blast - can they all use their We Are Legion Abilities to transfer 4x1 points of damage to a model with parasite token - 1 damage by 1 model each?

Cause if not, and We Are Legion is some kind of a general ability - then it could lead to some strange situations when two Cadmus lists face each other.

2.  To clarify for the world series - on which point ends the controlling effect?

For example, if we somehow command the Leveticus in 1 wound to do some action in a hazardous terrain (like with a crow trigger on Lyssa's close combat attack) and therefore make him suffer 1 damage "after the current Action is resolved" - who will control his decisions to activate his demise or not? 

[Alcathous]

The World Series FAQ has been updated with most of these questions. Let me know if something isn't clear or if I missed something. 

@Domin we'll get those added as soon as we can. I think for #1 the wording of the ability makes the intent clear that any given model can only receive We Are Legion once per activation. #2 I'm less sure about so we'll discuss and get back to you.