Is the way Wyrd building the game and packing minis optimal?

[ooshawn]

If anything I wish they would offer  custom printing of models with colored plastics like the neon green kirai crew to finish off the crew. when I do make money, I usually do pretty well for myself and that type of thing would be right up my alley. I'm just unable to work at the moment so it really bothered me more that it usually would

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, ooshawn said:

If anything I wish they would offer  custom printing of models with colored plastics like the neon green kirai crew to finish off the crew. when I do make money, I usually do pretty well for myself and that type of thing would be right up my alley. I'm just unable to work at the moment so it really bothered me more that it usually would

The current crises of the world are hitting lots of people hard   I hope your situation improves!

One great thing about malifaux is that it is relatively cheap as far as hobbies go. When I first got into it, I budgeted ~$200 a year (that's ~$4/week) for playing. That can get you two basic crews or one really fleshed out crew with tons of options. Just make sure to include some paints in that plan as well (probably about 1/5 of it will be the hobby supplies). Although I admit I did pick up a lot of things on sale, so it may be slightly more now.

You can also play anything on Vassal, of course, including unreleased models.

[Maogrim]

I can at least contribute that the boxing prevented me from upgrading my ME1 Hamelin crew to ME3. I needed Rat Kings (who had not been released yet when my old Malifaux gaming group disolved) but I couldn't quite bring myself to buy the quite expensive Brotherhood of the Rat box since I already own enough Rats and Rat Catchers.

So I ended up spending even more money by starting a new faction. 😂

To the original poster: I understand that your situation is painful and I wish you all the best. But there will surely be a box with the halfbloods soon. Maybe in March.

[theamazingmrg]

20 hours ago, ooshawn said:

I think for me the frustrating part is I always Try to support the company whose mini's I play with, and not being able to get hold of angel eyes for less than 40$ or so really irked me. While I most definitely could proxy her, to me it would always feel inferior, along with the blood hunter. I think You all are probably correct in that I should probably sell some singles to offset the cost of finishing a crew or two. It was very nice that they removed dual faction from anything that wasn't a master. I suppose I could sell tara/vikis and all my outcasts and that could fuel picking up angel eyes eventually

This is the thing that sticks most with me about your rant:  You never could get Angel Eyes for less than $40 (RRP, anyway).  The model was only ever in the M2E starter set with the other Neverborn Half-Blood models (minus Tuco) and all the Guild Asylum models.

 

I understand it being frustrating to not be able to get the model you want, but complaining about not being able to get a single model that was never available singly anyway just seems odd.

 

On the whole, the M3E way of doing things is much, much better.  It sucks for people who already have large collections, but its much better for stores, distributors, and new players, and those are what will keep the game alive in the long term.

[DuBlanck]

3 hours ago, theamazingmrg said:

I understand it being frustrating to not be able to get the model you want, but complaining about not being able to get a single model that was never available singly anyway just seems odd.

I think you can reduce the complaint to "it is annoying you can't get [any given individual model] for <$40" without losing anything - it is.

The fact that you never could is also annoying, it doesn't make it less annoying.

There are good business reasons it is like this, both for Wyrd and FLGSs, but as a player it is a perfectly fair complaint.

[Zebo]

As a Freikorps player with all the M2E models plus the old M1E metal Trapper, I can understand you. 

Now, if I want the new third Freikorpsmann, the two new Scouts, the new Drachen and the new Librarian I must basically buy again the whole crew. 14 miniatures. 140$ for 5 minis that I want and 9 minis that I already have. 

So I'm not gonna finish my freikorps collection because 1 I can't afford it and 2 I don't want to buy again the models I already have painted. 

[ooshawn]

I think there needs to be a system setup to where you can just custom order sprue packages. Preferably with the option to have the plastics colored custom

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, ooshawn said:

I think there needs to be a system setup to where you can just custom order sprue packages. Preferably with the option to have the plastics colored custom

Is that viable? I.e., is there basically no work involved with changing out sprues, or do they have to produce a whole bunch at once?

My understanding of the sprue system is it is quite unwieldy and cumbersome. You're not going to get the versatility of a 3-d printer (yet)?

[ooshawn]

I don't know how it's done, it could be automated for sure. Anything can. I would definitely support them selling their 3d printer files.im not sure if it would tank their company or be it's salvation. The era of 3d printers is definitely here. The new 4k ones I've watched in videos this past week make amazing minis. I took everyone's advice and I'm selling stuff to try to buy a few malifaux minis. I hate being such a dramatic whiner.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, ooshawn said:

I don't know how it's done, it could be automated for sure. Anything can. I would definitely support them selling their 3d printer files.im not sure if it would tank their company or be it's salvation. The era of 3d printers is definitely here. The new 4k ones I've watched in videos this past week make amazing minis. I took everyone's advice and I'm selling stuff to try to buy a few malifaux minis. I hate being such a dramatic whiner.

Yeah, I think things are headed that way, but aren't there yet. My friend is starting a company for custom minis, and he tells me that it is just better to produce models via sprue when you're doing it in bulk.

Selling their 3D printer files seems like a dice-y idea. All it takes is one copy of the files getting out into the wild and they could never contain them again. So then it'd just be down to goodwill of the community to buy the product. It's a problem for the gaming industry all over, of course. A lot of the investment goes into game development, but a lot of the revenue comes from physical product.

As for automation, it is expensive. No doubt they could package things that way, but what if it ended up being more expensive than just the boxes?

Personally I find it all quite affordable. If you spend $200 a year (including paints, etc), you can easily get in a game a week.

Not to mention they make the entire game available for free online, so you can play online for 0 cost.

[ooshawn]

Yeah, if I was working I wouldn't think twice about giving my metal models away and buying new plastic and paying someone to pro paint it for me. It's just I've been off work since basically last December. That's why I'm such a weird spot. Trying not to waste money that isn't mine to spend. And sometimes I speak before I think things through as well 

[Maniacal_cackle]

18 minutes ago, ooshawn said:

Yeah, if I was working I wouldn't think twice about giving my metal models away and buying new plastic and paying someone to pro paint it for me. It's just I've been off work since basically last December. That's why I'm such a weird spot. Trying not to waste money that isn't mine to spend. And sometimes I speak before I think things through as well 

Yeah, relatable! I have ADHD and do it all the time.

Sorry work is so rough. Would be nice if hobbies were a bit cheaper, but oh well. If you enjoy the playing side, try out Malifaux on Vassal. It is a great cheap way to play.

[Adran]

5 hours ago, ooshawn said:

I think there needs to be a system setup to where you can just custom order sprue packages. Preferably with the option to have the plastics colored custom

This sounds like science fiction to me, although I suppose as 3D printers improve it may be a way they go. I'm pretty sure that the current generation of 3D printers can't produce in bulk at anything like the same cost level,   and I'm not sure about the high end quality.  

i know very little about plastic production, but I thought the current big costs are the making the mold, and time on the machine, so that the time spent changing molds/materials is quite high.  

that said I came here to point out there is an angel eyes for sale...

 

[ooshawn]

Thanks, I left a note about angel eyes for him

[touchdown]

15 hours ago, ooshawn said:

Yeah, if I was working I wouldn't think twice about giving my metal models away and buying new plastic and paying someone to pro paint it for me. It's just I've been off work since basically last December. That's why I'm such a weird spot. Trying not to waste money that isn't mine to spend. And sometimes I speak before I think things through as well 

A lot of people are going through tough times right now, and our games/hobbies should be giving us a distraction not making us double down on thinking about them. I wouldn't sweat it.

[Nathan Caroland]

17 hours ago, ooshawn said:

I think there needs to be a system setup to where you can just custom order sprue packages. Preferably with the option to have the plastics colored custom

You figure out how to do that in an economically feasible manner and I'm sure you'll do very well in this industry selling such a luxury. As it stands right now, that one ranks right up there along with 'when pigs fly'. Not saying it can't happen, just you are going to need to devise the method of how to do so …

[Maladroit]

For the most part they seem to be getting it right - or at least are packaging things in a reasonable way. For new players it seems more straightforward than M2E, which was also complicated by the cross faction mercenary system. And the packaging of the new new stuff like the ES boxes seems pretty good so far. However, I find the treatment of dual keyword and dual faction models to be a bit hit and miss. Sometimes they've got it right (Bayou engineering comes to mind) and sometimes they've got it very wrong (packaging Iggy with the Aversions is inexcusable IMO - think about the situation for a new arcanist player trying to complete her Kaeris crew). Sure you can argue that you can use Gadzooks or similar, but in certain parts of the world you pay more in shipping than the model is worth, and to be blunt, you should not need to. For Wyrd to provide a decent alternative in these few cases would be great - I'm pretty sure that Iggy comes on a single sprue and could be done as a special order if Wyrd chose - OR Wyrd should have bitten the bullet and made Iggy single faction if they could not provide a reasonable purchase pathway. 

In the past I've been a fan of Wyrd's approach to the encounter boxes too. They've been fun and interesting models that are not so important to the faction that you NEED to get them, which is how it should be - kind of. I think the problem becomes when you start marketing the boxes in M3E as faction "starter" boxes and they really are not IMO. I'm thinking of the Outcasts starter box which is all Syndicate models . . . I mean it is not really worse than the old M2E starter box, but I'm a bit puzzled why the box is marketed in this way. If I was recommending something to represent the Outcasts faction to a new player this seems like a strange place to start.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Maladroit said:

In the past I've been a fan of Wyrd's approach to the encounter boxes too. They've been fun and interesting models that are not so important to the faction that you NEED to get them, which is how it should be - kind of. I think the problem becomes when you start marketing the boxes in M3E as faction "starter" boxes and they really are not IMO. I'm thinking of the Outcasts starter box which is all Syndicate models . . . I mean it is not really worse than the old M2E starter box, but I'm a bit puzzled why the box is marketed in this way. If I was recommending something to represent the Outcasts faction to a new player this seems like a strange place to start.

Aren't the starter boxes just all packs of versatile models? What's the harm of slapping an extra keyword on them?

[Maladroit]

4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Aren't the starter boxes just all packs of versatile models? What's the harm of slapping an extra keyword on them?

None at all, just the marketing of them as an "Starter box" for the faction seems off to me. I'm remembering back to my bewilderment as a new player trying to get a handle on the game.

Edit to add: And to be honest, it is the outcast one that seems off - we have not seen to many of the others yet.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Maladroit said:

None at all, just the marketing of them as an "Starter box" for the faction seems off to me. I'm remembering back to my bewilderment as a new player trying to get a handle on the game.

Edit to add: And to be honest, it is the outcast one that seems off - we have not seen to many of the others yet.

Oh, I assume all the starter boxes would start balanced at a particular soulstone cost/been playtested against each other. In which case that seems like a pretty ideal starter box to me (if that assumption is true).

[Maladroit]

11 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh, I assume all the starter boxes would start balanced at a particular soulstone cost/been playtested against each other. In which case that seems like a pretty ideal starter box to me (if that assumption is true).

I think if you see them as a starter box for Malifaux then that makes some sense - grab a starter box and play a few henchman games to see if M3E is for you - I don't know if that is really how people get started though? (I've got no idea about marketing)

For me though, I'd also want them to really represent the faction as well. I'd want to be able to say to a new player, grab the starter box for your faction and then go with a master that they were drawn to and was New Player Friendly. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Maladroit said:

I think if you see them as a starter box for Malifaux then that makes some sense - grab a starter box and play a few henchman games to see if M3E is for you - I don't know if that is really how people get started though? (I've got no idea about marketing)

For me though, I'd also want them to really represent the faction as well. I'd want to be able to say to a new player, grab the starter box for your faction and then go with a master that they were drawn to and was New Player Friendly. 

My impression is basically you can grab any two starter boxes and play against each other (something you can't do with core boxes, but people use for core boxes currently).

Then after your starter games, you can buy any core box, and bam! You have a complete crew (possibly with two separate synergy sets). I assume all the starter boxes will have a keyword so that all the versatile models tie together, but who knows.

[Maladroit]

4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

My impression is basically you can grab any two starter boxes and play against each other (something you can't do with core boxes, but people use for core boxes currently).

Then after your starter games, you can buy any core box, and bam! You have a complete crew (possibly with two separate synergy sets). I assume all the starter boxes will have a keyword so that all the versatile models tie together, but who knows.

I believe the Outcast one has all Syndicate keyword models (from explorers society) and versatile in outcasts which is why I thought that one felt off. I don't think they have a keyword from Outcasts - but we'll have to wait and see for that one.

 

Edit for grammar

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Maladroit said:

I believe the Outcast one has all Syndicate keyword models (from explorers society) and versatile in outcasts which is why I thought that one felt off. I don't think they have a keyword from Outcasts - but we'll have to wait and see for that one.

 

Edit for grammar

Oh, I think it'd be a bit weird if they did have an Outcast keyword (as then it'd be the starter box for that crew in some ways).

I was assuming more like the Asylum and Half-Blood keywords, where you have a shared keyword that doesn't have any other place in the faction. Although hopefully a bit better than those, I feel like Half-Blood would be a really awkward starter box. Although maybe it's good if the power level is low on starter boxes.

[Maladroit]

I am still hopeful they eventually flesh out the Asylum keyword one day . . .

I wouldn't mind if they did have a keyword though - a common question from new players is what is new player friendly master, the starter box could guide them in that direction. Before when there were two factions in the one set, I'd have agreed they should not be tied to a specific master, so that players didn't have to overbuy to fill out the keyword. This seems an odd choice though, having a keyword from a master from an entirely different faction?