Jedza (Seeker Keyword) Discussion

[HomelessOne]

Players still going Enforcer-heavy with Jedza? Are Minions seeing much play? Lamplighters are often spoken of, but Surveyors less so and I've encountered a lot of negative thoughts on the Moorwraith.

[belorey]

4 hours ago, HomelessOne said:

Players still going Enforcer-heavy with Jedza? Are Minions seeing much play? Lamplighters are often spoken of, but Surveyors less so and I've encountered a lot of negative thoughts on the Moorwraith.

Yes, outside of limplighters i don't see how can i play with other Minions when you have a good enforcers like Goo, Austera or Damned.

[Whut]

Surveyors are a decent but cheap central fighter kind of model, which isn't useful in a crew with already tanky models and Jedza keeping things alive. Depending on what the rest of Syndicate looks like, they could be better there.

Edit: After taking another look, I take this back, Surveyors are actually super good with Jedza

[Plaag]

surveyors are best jedza minions, lamplighters are almost useless

[Adran]

2 hours ago, Plaag said:

surveyors are best jedza minions, lamplighters are almost useless

I like surveyor, but I also got a lot of work from the lamp lighter. It was an easy to get off heal, which was good with chronicles, and I got a lot out of its interact abilities as well as its positive flip from the lit lamp. 

[dannydb]

I mean Lamp lighters give one positive flip a turn, can hit semi hard and provide movement shenanigans and have don't mind me 

[Rufess]

2 hours ago, dannydb said:

I mean Lamp lighters give one positive flip a turn, can hit semi hard and provide movement shenanigans and have don't mind me 

It is once per activation. Which means a model can use it outside of its own activation, like when being attacked in enemies activation.

[Whut]

On 1/16/2021 at 3:28 PM, Plaag said:

surveyors are best jedza minions, lamplighters are almost useless

Why are lamplighters useless

[belorey]

2 hours ago, Whut said:

Why are lamplighters useless

Because he doesn't know how to play with them. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Plaag]

8 hours ago, Whut said:

Why are lamplighters useless

who are u going to choose surveuor or lamplighter? what lamplighter is doing better? for what schemes? just think abt it and u will understand

[Adran]

6 hours ago, Plaag said:

who are u going to choose surveuor or lamplighter? what lamplighter is doing better? for what schemes? just think abt it and u will understand

Well I already said why I liked Lamplighters, and what I think they do better. 

Surveyors do a very different job, and I haven't played Terrain Jedza, which is where I think they might excel. I like them but they are much more of an occasional pick when I play, whilst I don't yet think I've played a Jedza game without a Lamp lighter. 

But I don't think I am going to be in a situation where I am directly choosing between a lamp lighter or a Surveyor because they have minimal overlap in what I am likely to be looking for. 

So I have thought about it, I've played with both, and I don't have a clue what you are on about.

[dannydb]

7 hours ago, Plaag said:

who are u going to choose surveuor or lamplighter? what lamplighter is doing better? for what schemes? just think abt it and u will understand

So Lamplighter and surveyors are completely different models. Once a support schemer and ones a low cost tank/damage dealer 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, dannydb said:

So Lamplighter and surveyors are completely different models. Once a support schemer and ones a low cost tank/damage dealer 

yes-surveyor is support, schemer, damager, and lamplighter is minion that u need to take just in 1 game of 10

[Adran]

1 minute ago, Plaag said:

yes-surveyor is support, schemer, damager, and lamplighter is minion that u need to take just in 1 game of 10

I have a very different definition of schemer to you. Surveyor doesn't really fit it for me. It has restricted self movement tricks, can't interact when engaged, and isn't all that fast. Its got chain gain, which is nice, and if iut gets the hazardous going, it offers a lot of chances to push otehrs through it, which is good, but it is not a schemer. 

Don't mind me and Burn the midnight oil make the Lamp lighter a much better schemer, allowing the dropping of 2 markers a turn, and potentially keeping one of them safe. Its not quite as consistent as something like leap on a scheme runner, but its pretty useful. 

[belorey]

Lamp lighters are great support Minions:

-They give  to any duel each activation. So if you put both Lit Market right you can get 2  each turn to friendly models.

-He can interact 11" away as if he was b2b so is easy for Spread mission. And with  enemies withing 2" of Lit cannot interact. 

-They can move and heal 2 models each turn (and activate chronicles).

Yeah definetly they are useless. 

[Whut]

17 hours ago, Plaag said:

who are u going to choose surveuor or lamplighter? what lamplighter is doing better? for what schemes? just think abt it and u will understand

Jedza excels at absorbing melee attackers and out-grinding them. A Surveyor is excellent for creating hazardous terrain and sitting in her bubble protected by LifeTokens while continually damaging and engaging melee enemies who can't kill him back.

In games against a lot of ranged enemies, the Surveyor cannot stay immortal within Jedza's bubble if he wants to be as useful as possible - if he dives into the enemy crew he will do some damage for a brief time and then die. Jedza herself also suffers more against ranged threats because Mikhail can't sit next to her and protect her from melee.

A Lamplighter just by existing creates two 30mm concealing Lamps which are not destructible and can be placed in Key areas from which you'll be shot. He can keep creating lamps using Tomes, and lighting each lets all models get plus flips within a small bubble. He also has a 2" engagement range and Shimmering Lights/Chronicle(Seclusion) can cause a lot of tricks with pushing out of engagement.

Is the Lamplighter great? No. They're a tech choice, and even if that tech choice is only used in 10-20% of games, that's not "almost useless." Its unfortunate that Malifaux takes 2-3+ hours to play and so it seems like 10-20% of games is not a lot. But compare that to a card in something like MagicTG - many cards make their way into sideboards only to be used in 10% of matches against specific decks. Those cards would never be called "almost useless" by good players.

[HomelessOne]

What would you consider your Jedza core at this point in time, Whut?

[Whut]

1 minute ago, HomelessOne said:

What would you consider your Jedza core at this point in time, Whut?

Core Crew:
Intrepid Emissary or Effigy w/ FateUpgrade
TheDamned
Surveyor
Mikhail (90% of the time?)

Jedza is very unique because of the LifeToken mechanic, so I think her core is much less set in stone than most crews - it'll fluctuate based on the enemy Keyword.
For example, Mikhail is INSANELY strong with Jedza, but in some matchups he's going to be overkill for the Jedza-bubble-area-control job when a second Surveyor, GraveGoo, Lamplighter is cheaper and more flexible in movement/other things (if not taking Mikhail, you must take Emissary not Effigy tho)

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Whut said:

Jedza excels at absorbing melee attackers and out-grinding them. A Surveyor is excellent for creating hazardous terrain and sitting in her bubble protected by LifeTokens while continually damaging and engaging melee enemies who can't kill him back.

In games against a lot of ranged enemies, the Surveyor cannot stay immortal within Jedza's bubble if he wants to be as useful as possible - if he dives into the enemy crew he will do some damage for a brief time and then die. Jedza herself also suffers more against ranged threats because Mikhail can't sit next to her and protect her from melee.

A Lamplighter just by existing creates two 30mm concealing Lamps which are not destructible and can be placed in Key areas from which you'll be shot. He can keep creating lamps using Tomes, and lighting each lets all models get plus flips within a small bubble. He also has a 2" engagement range and Shimmering Lights/Chronicle(Seclusion) can cause a lot of tricks with pushing out of engagement.

Is the Lamplighter great? No. They're a tech choice, and even if that tech choice is only used in 10-20% of games, that's not "almost useless." Its unfortunate that Malifaux takes 2-3+ hours to play and so it seems like 10-20% of games is not a lot. But compare that to a card in something like MagicTG - many cards make their way into sideboards only to be used in 10% of matches against specific decks. Those cards would never be called "almost useless" by good players.

See, now I thought Jedza would be better at absorbing ranged fire. It seems like when it comes to mele attacks its fairly easy to block LoS as far as Jedza's Aura is concerned. 

[Whut]

19 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

See, now I thought Jedza would be better at absorbing ranged fire. It seems like when it comes to mele attacks its fairly easy to block LoS as far as Jedza's Aura is concerned. 

It's less about absorbing damage and more about how good Jedza's options are. Jedza can absorb ranged fire for a while but if Seeker isn't putting in work to counteract resources spent then you're going to lose.

It's not like Seeker doesn't have ranged damage at all, but those ranged options are usually shorter (6-8") and/or OncePerActivation (Jedza's Terrain, Austera's Bonus, Mikhail's Shockwave, Surveyors' gun).

Comparing that to nearly everything having 2" engagement ranges, good damage tracks or utility on most attacks, Surveyors creating Hazardous terrain and Geodes for Jedza, keeping enemies engaged with LifeToken use, etc and it's pretty clear where Jedza is most effective.

Also, blocking LoS isn't easy. A 30mm model needs to stand perfectly between Jedza and her ally and even bigger models still need to get to that area between the two. Especially when first clashing, if you want to stand there you're probably going to spend AP walking instead of getting both attacks in, and if you want to do that be my guest.

[Plaag]

jedza dont care abt ranged atack crews it is not effective-she will just come to the opp and make bad things to the enemy

[Whut]

14 hours ago, Plaag said:

jedza dont care abt ranged atack crews it is not effective-she will just come to the opp and make bad things to the enemy

I can see this being possible. You yourself said you'd take a Lamplighter 1 in 10 games, when would you take him?

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Whut said:

I can see this being possible. You yourself said you'd take a Lamplighter 1 in 10 games, when would you take him?

maybe if opp dont have marker removal, some actions to place models, push models, bury them, also if opp dont have dont mind me, cannot drop scheme markers without intaract; dont have any heal prevention; only on evidance+researh, i will think abt hireing lamplighter, but ill better go with my common crew

[SEV]

17 hours ago, Plaag said:

maybe if opp dont have marker removal, some actions to place models, push models, bury them, also if opp dont have dont mind me, cannot drop scheme markers without intaract; dont have any heal prevention; only on evidance+researh, i will think abt hireing lamplighter, but ill better go with my common crew

So basically against Neverborn 😋

[Adran]

One thing I noticed, was that I have been playing GG0 with Jedza more than GG1, which I think is a more interact heavy set of schemes and strategies. This will change the value I place on models. 

On 1/18/2021 at 11:23 PM, Whut said:

Also, blocking LoS isn't easy. A 30mm model needs to stand perfectly between Jedza and her ally and even bigger models still need to get to that area between the two. Especially when first clashing, if you want to stand there you're probably going to spend AP walking instead of getting both attacks in, and if you want to do that be my guest.

Blocking LOS is easy, unless you make it hard for your opponent. If you just have a line of models, then I can normally easily charge into the spot that blocks LOS, its probably only a couple of inches further, and I often have that much spare anyway. Once the melee starts it can become harder, especially with all the seeker movement tricks, but a lot of the time people seem to be removing models in 1 activation it seems, so you need to work to prevent those easy blocks.