The Damned (new Savage model in the app).

[Maniacal_cackle]

Neverborn now have access to the Leap ability!

He says as he forgets to screenshot the back... Just check the app I guess xD

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Maniacal_cackle

[Regelridderen]

Looks like its gonna be a great model 

[Adran]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Neverborn now have access to the Leap ability!

Mama Z said they already did...

That said this looks a good model, mobile and hard hitting. Savage will enjoy it. 

[MajorUndead]

Yeah I agree this models looks good for the Savage keyword.

His Chronicle aura works well with the Cyclops frozen rune/uruz healing or the frozen vigor keyword ability (or the Geryon various heals)

Having the ability to put some pillars with his built-in trigger on breath of frost can be nice

The stagger on the breath of frost have some synergy with the lyssa opportunist/misery

Leap is definitly valuable with all the pillars blocking the way

He pretty tough with hard to wound & 9 health

 

I would see him go chase lone schemers pretty well. With the mobility of the leap, and toss away the scrap that can heal him to get back the health used from the old ways. But he can be useful with friends too, healing others and getting small heals from Cyclops

 

Also, he looks cool as hell!

[Ogid]

Looks legit.

I don't see him chasing enemy scheme runners tho; he got the mobility but not the damage, without Focused that damage track isn't good and all his auras and abilities benefice from being near of others. But with Leap he could be reused as an scheme runner himself in latter turns and that 2'' push in the attack is great to grab objectives so it seems versatile.

It's worth to note that Chronicle plus Lyssa's Mysery start to rack up the ping damage of this crew.

It's good to get an ability to drop ice markers without needing  or the master (but again that ability benefice a lot from Focused to get the ); it may help to get Gerions some extra healing or reinforce some model putting a pilar near of them; and the staggered play is good for Lysas and Puppets. A question tho, that "instead of dropping the " means he can't drop ice pilars attacking friendly models?

It's also a beast, so useful for some casual Marcus double master play.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Ogid said:

I don't see him chasing enemy scheme runners tho; he got the mobility but not the damage, without Focused that damage track isn't good and all his auras and abilities benefice from being near of others.

One of his auras can just be used to heal himself, so that part seems fine.

4 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Looks legit.

I don't see him chasing enemy scheme runners tho; he got the mobility but not the damage, without Focused...

but again that ability benefice a lot from Focused to get the

Don't forget that since it has leap, this is basically a 3 AP model. You can Leap, Focus, and charge/breath something that started ~13" away from you. So I think it'll be better at scheme hunting more than you think.

6 minutes ago, Ogid said:

But with Leap he could be reused as an scheme runner himself in latter turns and that 2'' push in the attack is great to grab objectives so it seems versatile.

I think he feels a bit like Archie with one big attack rather than several medium ones. He can scheme, he can kill schemers, he can provide utility, etc. Versatile hits the nail on the head!

7 minutes ago, Ogid said:

A question tho, that "instead of dropping the " means he can't drop ice pilars attacking friendly models?

I would assume no friendlies, yeah.

[Adran]

15 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Looks legit.

I don't see him chasing enemy scheme runners tho; he got the mobility but not the damage, without Focused that damage track isn't good and all his auras and abilities benefice from being near of others. But with Leap he could be reused as an scheme runner himself in latter turns and that 2'' push in the attack is great to grab objectives so it seems versatile.

It's worth to note that Chronicle plus Lyssa's Mysery start to rack up the ping damage of this crew.

It's good to get an ability to drop ice markers without needing  or the master (but again that ability benefice a lot from Focused to get the ); it may help to get Gerions some extra healing or reinforce some model putting a pilar near of them; and the staggered play is good for Lysas and Puppets. A question tho, that "instead of dropping the " means he can't drop ice pilars attacking friendly models?

It's also a beast, so useful for some casual Marcus double master play.

I would totally use him to chase down scheme runners if thats what I need from the crew. He has a huge threat range even if he is having to concentrate on that spare action to get the straight damage. There aren't many scheme runners that can outrun him, or survive him and he can quickly get back into the action from almost anywhere. The push on the attack can really help with interacting if you want him to scheme. He can do 4 attacks on a really good day, which is very useful for dealing with swarms as well. 

But them I have always liked the Blessed of December, and this is a better blessed to me. 

Betrayal is pretty scary with all the healing the savage crew already does with Frozen vigor. 

If you attack a friendly model you are generating 0 blast markers for the action, so you can create an equal number of ice pillars. 

[Ogid]

25 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

One of his auras can just be used to heal himself, so that part seems fine.

Don't forget that since it has leap, this is basically a 3 AP model. You can Leap, Focus, and charge/breath something that started ~13" away from you. So I think it'll be better at scheme hunting more than you think.

I think he feels a bit like Archie with one big attack rather than several medium ones. He can scheme, he can kill schemers, he can provide utility, etc. Versatile hits the nail on the head!

It's not helpless on his own, but I don't think that's his strenght, maybe he could go for the kill of an exposed model but I don't see him as a hunter. The heal on kill aura would be way easier to trigger setting up the kill with the other models than him just 100 to 0 models, the ping damage aura is way easier to trigger with all the ping healing from Frozen VIgor and Cyclops than from him getting kills.

That jump, focus, charge would be on average 4 (or 3) damage so most scheme runners has a fair chance to live trough it and it'd be quite bad versus H2W scheme runners (he has min damage 2 and no flurry so it's not as good as Archie for that). Most scheme runners worth its salt have decent defensive tech, I don't think he can consistently remove most threats fast enough... it can get messy with the runner surviving and diving into friendly territory and you'll get a 8SS model chasing a 5-6SS model in a place where it can't score at that point.

[Ogid]

9 minutes ago, Adran said:

The push on the attack can really help with interacting if you want him to scheme. He can do 4 attacks on a really good day, which is very useful for dealing with swarms as well. 

But them I have always liked the Blessed of December, and this is a better blessed to me. 

I agree with this part, and that's why I'm not sold with him as an scheme hunter, all of these will be more useful either against the main enemy crew or in the enemy part of the board; enemy scheme runners would be away from the core and diving into my half of the table.

The blessed is a good comparison; it's maybe playstile but I've always used her as a tanky scheme runner with some punch if needed (with Horns upgrade) more than for chasing things into my half of the table. It could be playstile tho, he has the tools for being at least usable at that but I'm not convinced for him in that role...

However the blessed is better equiped for wandering on its own than this one, killing a living model will net her up to 6 healing; she has an onslaught trigger (better versus isolated targets) and it's faster considering Deadly Pursuit; the Dawned has instead his useful auras and AoE attack with utility.

49 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I would assume no friendlies, yeah.

19 minutes ago, Adran said:

If you attack a friendly model you are generating 0 blast markers for the action, so you can create an equal number of ice pillars.

It seems fair, ty guys!

[Adran]

7 minutes ago, Ogid said:

It's not helpless on his own, but I don't think that's his strenght, maybe he could go for the kill of an exposed model but I don't see him as a hunter. The heal on kill aura would be way easier to trigger setting up the kill with the other models than him just 100 to 0 models, the ping damage aura is way easier to trigger with all the ping healing from Frozen VIgor and Cyclops than from him getting kills.

That jump, focus, charge would be on average 4 (or 3) damage so most scheme runners has a fair chance to live trough it and it'd be quite bad versus H2W scheme runners (he has min damage 2 and no flurry so it's not as good as Archie for that). Most scheme runners worth its salt have decent defensive tech, I don't think he can consistently remove most threats fast enough... it can get messy with the runner surviving and diving into friendly territory and you'll get a 8SS model chasing a 5-6SS model in a place where it can't score at that point.

If I wasn't planning on cheating the damage flip I wouldn't focus, so I'd be expecting 6/7 damage if my target had 6/7 wounds. Necropunks would be a pain to kill in 1 activation, but there aren't too many 6ss models I think it would struggle with. Hard to wound is probably his worse defensive tech, but Savage with the ample minimum 3 models are normally one of the best keywords to get past hard to wound so I don't know how much it would get taken into them. 

I think one of the strengths of the Damned is that it has game both in a group and as a lone hunter. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

For hard to wound, you just grab min 3 beaters. I feel like Neverborn are the best possible faction to deal with it. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

I expect the Damned will be a good disruption piece, charging into the middle of a group so other heals can ping damage and the following turn it can leap away if needed to avoid retribution. That and shove aside on attacks can really mess with enemy positioning without giving up much of your own.

[MrPieChee]

So, my understanding of savage (not played with them, nor have I built them yet) is that it's generally weak but interesting.

They suffer from needing ice pillars and being very limited in getting them. Also, thoon seems very situational (frozen trophy).

Now, I want to say breath of frost fixes both of these issues, but I'm not so sure.

If you could dump 4 more ice pillars in a turn that could be a huge help - bubble crews could really suffer (a wall through the center of their bubble!) but, is that likely to ever happen?

Since breath of frost limits placing pillars next to opponents, thoon being able to move them makes him more useful...

Basically my rambling is asking does the damned fix savage, and is it an auto include?

[SEV]

He seem close to the First Mate for both his role on the table and the power level. TFM is close to an auto include in both swampfiend and infamous I think (I only play the later)... 

Seem to be a great model. I'm happy that Savage received some help. They seem fun but a bit underpowered.

[Alcathous]

3 hours ago, MrPieChee said:

So, my understanding of savage (not played with them, nor have I built them yet) is that it's generally weak but interesting.

They suffer from needing ice pillars and being very limited in getting them. Also, thoon seems very situational (frozen trophy).

Now, I want to say breath of frost fixes both of these issues, but I'm not so sure.

If you could dump 4 more ice pillars in a turn that could be a huge help - bubble crews could really suffer (a wall through the center of their bubble!) but, is that likely to ever happen?

Since breath of frost limits placing pillars next to opponents, thoon being able to move them makes him more useful...

Basically my rambling is asking does the damned fix savage, and is it an auto include?

I've been running Savage for a little while now, and I think it has been pretty viable if know when to use it. So I don't really agree that the keyword needed "fixing". But, I think  the Damned opens Euripides up as a much more flexible master to declare and relieves some suit pressure by giving a mobile schemer who doesn't rely on Shattering Surprise to get around, or by giving another avenue of creating ice pillars. You add the occasional heal from Toss the Scraps and you've got a nice fit with the existing crew.

I'm not going to say he's an auto-include, but he's in most Savage crews going forward. 

[Ogid]

13 hours ago, Alcathous said:

I've been running Savage for a little while now, and I think it has been pretty viable if know when to use it. So I don't really agree that the keyword needed "fixing".

I'm interested in this part, I already got most of my Savages but I've not got the time to put them in the table yet. I could really use some curated info to make the first games easier.

So... when to use them? Which are their strongest pools (deployment+strategies+schemes)? Versus which factions/masters is better going for other picks? How would you rate each model and how often do you pick them? How do they work versus the top dogs (Dreamer, Dashel, Colette, Misaki, Asami...)? Any versatile/OOK you like to pick with Savages?

Ty in advance!

[74legion]

Neverbons got a leap. Tell me how I will take this model as a Pandora. Sarcasm.

[Alcathous]

4 hours ago, Ogid said:

I'm interested in this part, I already got most of my Savages but I've not got the time to put them in the table yet. I could really use some curated info to make the first games easier.

So... when to use them? Which are their strongest pools (deployment+strategies+schemes)? Versus which factions/masters is better going for other picks? How would you rate each model and how often do you pick them? How do they work versus the top dogs (Dreamer, Dashel, Colette, Misaki, Asami...)? Any versatile/OOK you like to pick with Savages?

Ty in advance!

The combination of HtK/Frozen Vigor/Old Ways is very good. And before I get started on game, I want to note that the design of this keyword as a whole is fantastic. Old Ways is incredible card advantage; worse than just drawing a card because it costs a hit point but also better because you only use it when it works in your favor. Frozen Vigor can be a great tool for mitigating the damage from that and should give you a handful of "free" Old Ways flips per turn if you're getting your pillars down. With HtK, it's often worth it to flip old ways on defensive duels when your opponent comes in with a beater and has a guaranteed kill. If you're sitting on a 10+ on your deck, you can force them to put far more resources into putting down your giant than they were planning.

I have probably played Euripides most in Corrupted Ley Lines pools. The incorporeal pieces in a Euri crew really help to score that, and the ice pillars can make if very difficult for your opponent to do the same. Primordial Magic's Cleanse and Cyclops' Frozen Runes make really good incidental scheming/anti-scheming, especially for Sabotage/LYM. Savage is definitely one of the best NB options for scoring and denying LYM, which makes it pretty relevant in a lot of GG1. Let Them Bleed is a solid pick, Research Mission is easy, and I think Gigants make great Hidden Martyrs.

In general, I like starting farther away so I have time to set up ice pillars. But, there are definitely matchups where Euri needs to be more aggressive (vs summoners) and in those cases, being able to put down Rune-Etched Ice and force duels T1 is important. So my preference is Corner, but I'm not letting deployment sway me too much.

For models: I'm always taking gigants and usually a cyclops then build from there. I like Geryon if it's a melee matchup. Lyssa are good scheme runners and I'll bring one if I'm sitting it doesn't put me below 4ss cache. Bultungin have place as runners if Shove or Forage are going to be useful (so I'm looking for STO, Sab, or Breakthrough). Thoon is amazing, or course, but I'm happy to leave him out if I think the matchup has good counterplay against his trophy. The nice thing about Thoon is that the opponent needs to think about him at crew select, regardless if I bring him or not. Thoon is amazing for stopping alpha strikes and making the opponent go all in on your ice palace, but I'm not going out of my way to aggressively trophy; I'll take the pieces that get over extended. I like Emissary, especially in CLL. Spread It Around is hot with Euri's simple duels and Lyssa's misery, and the hungry land really hurts when Gigants are throwing boulders. Can't go wrong with Serena with all that HtK. In the matchups where I need to be aggressive, I think there's space for an ook beater to send up the field through a Gigant's Shattering Shove (Killjoy in Pub Enemies? Titania/Nekima?).

I think arcanists have the best general matchup against Savage. The Mecharachnid is precise, the swarm has evasive and onslaught, and the ss miner has demolitionist and thriller driller. Too much ability to sidestep Savage's main defenses and blow up pillars on good pieces. I feel like Arc don't really have to sacrifice anything to countertech against Savage. Sidir and Mad Dog are of course great picks into Savage, but I've been able to spread out enough with models and pillars to prevent them from being silver bullets. I like Euri in a lot of the Resser matchups, though Schtook does just outclass him at the end of the day. Still a fun matchup, but it will range from Hard to Brutal (I suppose that's default for Schtook games though?).

Of the masters you listed, I've only gone against Misaki and Asami. It's been a little bit, but the games went pretty well for me. Vs Asami I defininitely went with a Shattering Shove build to keep early pressure and give Euri the time to score points and build an ice fortress. I would probably go aggro with Euri himself vs Dreamer because the Boy isn't gonna like those simple duels at all. Vs Misaki I've gone with Emissary a couple times because I've found she really doesn't like popping out of shadows with Stagger on her. Honestly I don't know about Colette. 

 

 

[Alcathous]

4 hours ago, 74legion said:

Neverbons got a leap. Tell me how I will take this model as a Pandora. Sarcasm.

Truth. Neverborn have no native leapers. Just three specific masters who get to hire models with leap (and Jackalope is insignificant so kinda 2)

[Adran]

29 minutes ago, Alcathous said:

Truth. Neverborn have no native leapers. Just three specific masters who get to hire models with leap (and Jackalope is insignificant so kinda 2)

No leap, ( other than jackalope who strictly is neverborn) but a lot of ride with me. Fly with me. Creep along.  As bonus action movement tricks. ( plus Marcus, zoraida and Euripides who can bring in leapers). 

[Alcathous]

14 minutes ago, Adran said:

No leap, ( other than jackalope who strictly is neverborn) but a lot of ride with me. Fly with me. Creep along.  As bonus action movement tricks. ( plus Marcus, zoraida and Euripides who can bring in leapers). 

I'm def not complaining about Neverborn mobility. We've got got a nice suite of bonus movement options. More if you add Ambush to that list and lots of triggers that add movement. That said, leap is the gold standard for bonus action moves and we're not leading the pack for that ability specifically.

I think our biggest strength in mobility is actually our access to ignoring severe, more than the bonus action stuff. And the models where that is paired with bonus action mobility are really incredible (hence riders being top tier across all 4 factions they are in).

[Maniacal_cackle]

I regret mentioning leap at all xD

Point is, this is a sweet model I think!

[Alcathous]

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Point is, this is a sweet model I think!

Heckin' yes.

[Durza]

16 hours ago, 74legion said:

Neverbons got a leap. Tell me how I will take this model as a Pandora. Sarcasm.

Hire Euripides as master, hire Pandora OOK, done.

Really looking forward to using the Damned, a Savage scheme runner who doesn't die to a stiff breeze is really welcome.

[Gaston]

The Damned is the model Savage was missing. Seriously. I don't use Euripides without him anymore.

He is incredibly versatile and will support any playstyles the strat and scheme calls for. You need to stretch the board? No problem. Kill backline mooks? Leap and Pounce is fantastic. Brick up? Get extra damage from his healing aura.

Savage is completely changed by him.