Markers and Base contact

[Nightwing]

When is a Marker without specific Size in Base contact with a model?

Variant 1: Model stands on the edge of a Box with hight 1". Can he drop a Marker into base contact to the floor, but as close to him as possible? (meaning dropping it down beside the Box he is standing on?)

Variant 2: The model stands on the ground in base contact to a Box. Can he drop a Marker on the Box?

What exactly is base contact? Is it the physical base or is it a cylindrical area the size of the base, with the size of the model?

[Rufess]

Base contact means physical touching of both bases, without considering the Sz. So both bases have to on the same horizon. 

A1: When dropping(or creating) a marker, it has to be placed on the table in the specific location. A model standing on a box cannot drop a marker both base contact AND on the table so my guess is the model cannot drop the marker.

A2: Similar to the previous answer, the model cannot drop a marker both base contact AND on the box.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Rufess said:

Base contact means physical touching of both bases, without considering the Sz. So both bases have to on the same horizon. 

A1: When dropping(or creating) a marker, it has to be placed on the table in the specific location. A model standing on a box cannot drop a marker both base contact AND on the table so my guess is the model cannot drop the marker.

I thought markers could fall, so you can place it in the air and then it falls?

I'll have to double check the rules.

[Scoffer]

19 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I thought markers could fall, so you can place it in the air and then it falls?

I'll have to double check the rules.

Markers fall down only when they are moved off an elevated surface (p. 28, second point). Drop/create is not a move, so, reading the rules as written, if we allow a marker to be dropped "in the air", it remains flying => the "place on the table" part of drop rules is missing.

Also creating markers in the air can be used to abuse the rules in a very dirty way: a marker can not be created in base contact with other models and hazardous markers do not trigger their effects when dropped/created (because it's not a move). But "airborne" marker will be created over a model (not in base contact) and when it falls down on a model it's a move for hazardous purposes. I definitely don't want such things in my Malifaux.

 

 

[Nightwing]

Thanks for the clarification. So it seems the consensus is, base contact is physical base contact. The end position of the dropping still has to be in base contact, which means no dropping into differing heights.

I have another question, not sure if I may capture my own threat:
I'm not sure I get LoS and heights correctly, since it's treated abstractly. I try to make a stark a example to get my point through:

A (size 2) is standing on a bridge with height 5. The bridge has a blocking reiling (size 1). B (size 2) is standing on the floor level very close to the bridge. Due to the angle, B cannot draw true line of sight to A. Can B draw line of sight to A in Malifaux? And if so, is A in cover? (probably yes), but is B also in cover from A?

[Scoffer]

11 minutes ago, Nightwing said:

A (size 2) is standing on a bridge with height 5. The bridge has a blocking reiling (size 1). B (size 2) is standing on the floor level very close to the bridge. Due to the angle, B cannot draw true line of sight to A. Can B draw line of sight to A in Malifaux? And if so, is A in cover? (probably yes), but is B also in cover from A?

Angles are meaningless. 

There are 3 things you should know about los and elevation:

1. If a model has sz1 or more and stands on a piece of blocking terrain, everyone outside of that terrain shadow can see it.

2. Model that are in the shadow of terrain can always see a model that stands on terrain within 1" from it's edge.

3. Models that are in the shadow of terrain can see a model that stands on terrain further than 1" from it's edge only if their sz is bigger than terrain's ht.

In your example B can see A if A is within 1" from the edge of the bridge.

B will not have cover from the bridge.

A will not have cover from the bridge because shadow spreads outside of terrain, not on it's top.

I recommend to treat railings and similar blocking objects standing on blocking terrain as separate pieces of terrain for los and cover purposes. If A is in the shadow of the railing (within 1" from it) it will have cover.

 

[Nightwing]

Thank you very much for the very detailed clarification!

[Mycellanious]

A quick addendum, Markers unless otherwise specified count as Sz 0 by default (in default Marker rules). When drawing LoS to or from a Marker, treat it as a model. So a model on a box could not pick up or drop a Scheme Marker (Sz 0), however if it were directly on the edge of that box (or overhanging a bit depending on your interpretation of the Falling rules) it could be in base contact with a Sz 5 Ice Pillar Marker.

As for the model standing on the bridge, Scoffer does a good breakdown, but the rules work that way because Malifaux is a 3D game pretending it is 2D. All Sight Lines are drawn from the top down position, so instead of a true diagonal sight line you would get one that runs along the ground and "crawls" up the side of the building.

Some more quirks about LoS and Markers are found here: 

 

[santaclaws01]

47 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

it could be in base contact with a Sz 5 Ice Pillar Marker.

No it wouldn't. The base is the part on the ground. It would just be within 0" of the ice pillar marker, but not in base contact.

[Nightwing]

I'm not entirely happy with the "base contact is physical base contact" rule. It makes things easier, but makes many terrains more difficult to handle and abilities, that places a second model into base contact more difficult to use (ride with me etc.), but I guess it is, what it is.

Still need to get used to that pythagoras means nothing, when it comes to measuring distances xD