Wicked Dolls

[Whut]

I'm not a Neverborn player, but I like dabbling in building lists for many factions. I've heard occasionally that NB don't have as good schemers as other factions, and I wonder: are people sleeping on wicked dolls?

• Significant for 3 stones
• Creep along basically makes them 3 AP schemers
• 8" stat 5 attack that gives an enemy Adversary for your keyword (which they can use twice after creep along) with accomplice immediately to take advantage if you want
• (Situational) melee attack that forces cheating or discarding cards if attacking most unactivated models, and can slow or stagger
• Stealth means you have to run them down to kill them and 3HP is barely enough to dodge dying from min 2 attacks.

Not against every crew, and not for every pool. Best in Corrupted Ley Lines & Spread Them Out, maybe Breakthrough, Hidden Martyrs, & Research Mission

For 3 stones? Smells like a steal. Why aren't they talked about more?

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think a lot of people like them, but not everyone owns them. They also have a neat combo with Widow Weaver (they leave a scrap marker behind). I especially liked them on Corrupted Idols before GG0, since you could get the dolls to kill themselves on the idol.

Now they're pretty cool, but Creep Along is a LOT more limited than leap. It's not even close to 3 AP, as typically when you're going to somewhere to scheme, you have no other models in that area to creep along towards.

One good thing worth emphasising is you can use adversary on your own models to give yourself positive flips for self-attacks. In particular, Black Blood Shaman, Vasilisa, and Wicked Dolls combo.

[extremor]

I use em a lot in Lucius, Dreamer and Hinamatsu/Widow Weaver lists. 
 

creep along is nice but situational as mentioned by maniacle_crackle. But you are right, they are nice. Not as good as real scheme runners but good to keep in mind. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Oh, one detail I forgot - a lot of people like building elite crews to maximise pass token advantage (which combined with Ancient Pact can be pretty impactful). Losing a pass token to get another model is a big deal, so I think people naturally shy away from 3 stone models unless they're like Daydream level of power.

People also shy away from 3 stone models just because they feel so weak - but what do you expect for 3 stones? They're barely more cost than an upgrade xD

[Whut]

True - I may have gotten carried away calling them 3AP. But on first turn, maybe second as well I'd definitely call them 2.5 AP at least.

I suppose Pass Tokens and winning initiative may be more important for glass-cannony Neverborn than other factions. I almost don't value +Initiative at all but then again I like to play control/grindy/summoning crews.

I really like that Black Blood Shaman, Vasilisa, and Wicked Dolls combo. That's pretty hilarious.

[Roadhouse]

Wicked dolls are very good for 3 stones. I'm of the opinion you usually want 2 that way they can leap frog down a table edge to scheme. If you've got Vasilisa as well its a nice package as she can turn their scrap into more Dolls or Stitched with a high enough mask. And when compared to a pass token for activation control you can look at using the Dolls activation as a pass token because they are usually quite far from the action.

[Ogid]

I play them a lot and I consider them very good, but they have their limits.

They are very squishy, so taking them out is very easy; they aren't a good model to send on their own because even enemy schemers can take them out and just keep going. They need to abuse the creep along to stay alive.

In tandem with Vasilisa they are better, however that's 11 SS. I play that pair because Vasi is a great support for other models like Teddy and Hinamatsu, and the doll's Adversary help with attacking your own models which help with things like BBS into Mature in turn 1 (which is something I like but not a must have because 11SS are required to speed up that grow). If they didn't offerend all that support and utilty I wouldn't bother taking that pair only for scheming, for 11SS I could hire the Rider and put him in scheming duty while still having a late game powerhouse for example.

As other user pointed, the need to keep some list under 8/7 models to keep the initiative advantage make them not that useful with some masters.

[Alcathous]

On 10/17/2020 at 4:28 PM, Roadhouse said:

And when compared to a pass token for activation control you can look at using the Dolls activation as a pass token because they are usually quite far from the action.

If you're running 2 pacts, it's often just as important that the opponent does not get pass tokens. You want to be 2 up on the initiative flip as much as you want last activation.

I use the dolls occasionally, but only if I need the activations and don't have more points to spare.

[Ogid]

9 hours ago, Alcathous said:

If you're running 2 pacts, it's often just as important that the opponent does not get pass tokens. You want to be 2 up on the initiative flip as much as you want last activation.

This is key, giving free pass tokens to the other player is giving them some options you don't want him to have.

The initiative advantage is more for getting the first activation than to guarantee the last activation (but if both happens it's ideal). The best case scenario is giving up (after wining it) the initiative the first turn to have the last activation and wining (cheating if needed) the second turn initiative flip (which is why that +2 initiative is there); that is a perfect back to back activation that will let glass cannons like Nekima get in and do enough damage or throw a wrench into crews with better resources/schemers.

If the NVB player is the one with the pass tokens, he may even decide save a few if the other player reserved non-threatening models for the last activations the first turn (or if the rusher may hit places where those models will have a hard time hitting back) to guarantee the initiative; but if the other player is the one with them and knows what is coming, he may decide to save them to counter that initiative bonus; this may get the rusher killed/debuffed before it may deal enough damage to be worth it.

Depending on the game that's followed by a retrieval combo to extract the rusher with Lures or just by the rest of the crew charging in (mind schemes tho... it's also important to keep an eye on the thing that actually wins the game lol).