Jump to content

Maniacal's battle reports & strategic analysis!


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think the idea is that the original model (the one shooting the gun) is not always a legal target for the action, so 'another' isn't excluding the original model firing the gun. If it isn't excluding the shooter, then it must be excluding the original target.

Or so the argument would go.

Why not? Is a model? Yes, then is a legal target. 

If the action would be: "Remove a Scrap Marker" with a trigger: "Another Scrap Marker within 3" is removed". 

The model taking the action is not a legal subject (because he's a model, not a Scrap marker). In that case, another Scrap marker refers to "a different Scrap marker that wasn't the target". 

I can only guess that the intention of Wyrd wasn't to Ricochet or My Loyal Servant to the same model (or maybe yes, who knows), but following the FAQ, you can Ricochet to the original target. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think the idea is that the original model (the one shooting the gun) is not always a legal target for the action, so 'another' isn't excluding the original model firing the gun. If it isn't excluding the shooter, then it must be excluding the original target.

Or so the argument would go.

EDIT: To clarify, the original shooter is not always a legal target because it is not always within 3".

Essentially this. The FAQ is currently a poor solution to the problem. This would never happen in practice, but imagine Wyrd designed a model with a Df trigger "Immediately Push 5" away from the attacking model." Suddenly every "another" trigger in the game would break because there exists a theoretical scenario where "another" can no longer legally mean the model with the trigger.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ShinChan said:

Why not? Is a model? Yes, then is a legal target. 

If the action would be: "Remove a Scrap Marker" with a trigger: "Another Scrap Marker within 3" is removed". 

The model taking the action is not a legal subject (because he's a model, not a Scrap marker). In that case, another Scrap marker refers to "a different Scrap marker that wasn't the target". 

I can only guess that the intention of Wyrd wasn't to Ricochet or My Loyal Servant to the same model (or maybe yes, who knows), but following the FAQ, you can Ricochet to the original target. 

Sorry, I put an edit in, but the reasoning would be that because the original shooter isn't always within 3", it would "not always be a legal subject of the sentence."

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

I'm willing to admit that IF Ricochet doesn't allow you to hit the same model twice, then SVG are average at best. I'd still be hesitant to call them bad, they're a choice to add mobility to your crew in the same way you might take a sub-par model for condition removal, or marker removal, or healing.


The current consensus seems to be that you can, and I'm just rolling with it here (again, I don't play Arcanists).

It's strange to me that Wyrd, who are usually amazing at wording consistency, are leaving enough of a grey area here to even be questionable. They even almost solved this problem for themselves but then totally stumbled with the My Loyal Servant trigger - "Another model (other than this model)"

According to the FAQ and thus RaI, "Another model" should mean "other than this model," so why would this text need to remind the reader by restating "(other than this model)" unless normally "Another model" was supposed to mean "other than the target."

But if that were the intention, "Another model other than the target" would be the correct way of stating it, no parenthesis required and the base case remains "another model" = this model.

They really need to overhaul "another" officially and errata the cards but I doubt they want to because all the cards are printed and for sale.

  • "Another model" = not the target
  • "A model other than this model" = not this model

 

wind gamin brings mobility, but 2" push is not good mobility)) and we still have many questions to wyrds wordings))

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Sorry, I put an edit in, but the reasoning would be that because the original shooter isn't always within 3", it would "not always be a legal subject of the sentence."

He will always be a legal subject, maybe not within range, but the trigger targets models and a SVG is always a model.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

Ricochet can hit the same model according to the FAQ and even if it couldn't, SVG are decent models, they provide a lot of card cycling and they're tough with Df/Wp 6, HtK, Shielded +1 (+2 with Magical Training and Counterspell), Stat 6 in both attacks, posibility of ignoring armor and printed Ricochet in a 10" shooting attack. They even bring utility with their mantra and can get a model out of engagement without  flipping a card.

I don't know what else could you want in a 8ss minion, but calling them gargabe is a nonsense. 

all that i say - only for people who play malifaux not only for fun, but for victory, so if u are not going to win every game-take svg, play with them; but if u want to play competitive - forget abt them

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

all that i say - only for people who play malifaux not only for fun, but for victory, so if u are not going to win every game-take svg, play with them; but if u want to play competitive - forget abt them

Haha, you should add this to your signature.

Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Plaag said:

wind gamin brings mobility, but 2" push is not good mobility)) and we still have many questions to wyrds wordings))

There is a big difference between out-of-activation mobility and in-activation mobility.

There is also a big difference between 1 Wind Gamin placing a model 4" at the cost of his AP and giving EVERY Elemental within 6" getting free pushes for zero AP cost for the whole game.

There's a reason why on Turn 1 a fast Dead Rider is scarier and safer than a non-fast Dead Rider who is pushed forward 6" by another model. Or a Dead Rider who first charges an enemy model and then has to wait for someone else to pull him back. You, as a Colette player, should know this. Focus-shoot or Focus-charge, especially with one of the two models with Flurry in the crew, is much better than Placing out of combat, then letting your opponent go and possibly getting engaged again.

As you read the following list, keep in mind that every time you Concentrate instead of Walk, you...

  • Draw a card
  • Activate your Demise
  • Deal 1 Damage to an enemy within 2" (least likely to occur)
  • Get Focus +1, obviously

Now the non-exhaustive list:

  • 2" is enough to exit combat without the disengage action, being unable to fail, allowing you to to Focus-Interact or Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge someone else
  • 2" is enough to push into melee range when engaged by a 2" melee model, instead of having to walk.
  • 2" can be enough to push around a corner, allowing you to Focus-Charge instead of Walk-Charge
  • 2" can be enough to get into shooting range or charge range, allowing you to Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge instead of Walk
  • 2" can be enough to push outside enemy Auras
  • Often times, you don't need to move a full Walk, because you're already within 2" of the objective, or 2" will get you within 1 Walk of the objective, or you don't want to overextend Turn 1. Focus instead.
  • You can 2" push before applying the 1 damage from Sandeep's Mantra, reaching new targets
  • You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, dropping a Pyre Marker on top of more enemy models or on the opponent's table half for Research Mission
  • You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, hitting new targets with 1 Damage and Poison, and putting new models into Catalyst range
  • You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, reaching a new target with Wind Gamin's place effect

 

44 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

He will always be a legal subject, maybe not within range, but the trigger targets models and a SVG is always a model.

I see this distinction, and I like it. BUT I don't want to get into a 20 minute semantic debate every time it comes up with an opponent who is unfamiliar. Wyrd needs to clarify.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

There is a big difference between out-of-activation mobility and in-activation mobility.

There is also a big difference between 1 Wind Gamin placing a model 4" at the cost of his AP and giving EVERY Elemental within 6" getting free pushes for zero AP cost for the whole game.

There's a reason why on Turn 1 a fast Dead Rider is scarier and safer than a non-fast Dead Rider who is pushed forward 6" by another model. Or a Dead Rider who first charges an enemy model and then has to wait for someone else to pull him back. You, as a Colette player, should know this. Focus-shoot or Focus-charge, especially with one of the two models with Flurry in the crew, is much better than Placing out of combat, then letting your opponent go and possibly getting engaged again.

As you read the following list, keep in mind that every time you Concentrate instead of Walk, you...

  • Draw a card
  • Activate your Demise
  • Deal 1 Damage to an enemy within 2" (least likely to occur)
  • Get Focus +1, obviously

Now the non-exhaustive list:

  • 2" is enough to exit combat without the disengage action, being unable to fail, allowing you to to Focus-Interact or Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge someone else
  • 2" is enough to push into melee range when engaged by a 2" melee model, instead of having to walk.
  • 2" can be enough to push around a corner, allowing you to Focus-Charge instead of Walk-Charge
  • 2" can be enough to get into shooting range or charge range, allowing you to Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge instead of Walk
  • Often times, you don't need to move a full Walk, because you're already within 2" of the objective, or 2" will get you within 1 Walk of the objective, or you don't want to overextend Turn 1. Focus instead.
  • You can 2" push before applying the 1 damage from Sandeep's Mantra, reaching new targets
  • You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, dropping a Pyre Marker on top of more enemy models or on the opponent's table half for Research Mission
  • You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, hitting new targets with 1 Damage and Poison, and putting new models into Catalyst range
  • You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, reaching a new target with Wind Gamin's place effect

 

I see this distinction, and I like it. BUT I don't want to get into a 20 minute semantic debate every time it comes up with an opponent who is unfamiliar. Wyrd needs to clarify.

svg are still useless

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Plaag said:

another means not target)) and seamus can easy jump to ice pillar, remove it and take a shot, bad plan; also seamus shoots only with focuses and concealment just makes him better; swg is garbage, they dont cost 8 ss; and it helps-if u are listening to me)

For the record, if you do this, Kandara staggers Seamus and then the whole crew kills him. Bad plan.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Biletsky said:

For the record, if you do this, Kandara staggers Seamus and then the whole crew kills him. Bad plan.

I already spotted that, but Seamus can jump away again (even if the pillar is removed) as long as he has a corpse in position.

Though I guess we'll see when the battle happens!

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Plaag magical training on Kaeris - are you primarily bringing this for the shielded? Do you find you get good value vs using the two stones for damage reduction?

I guess with MT you are normally reducing by 5 across the game (if she doesn't get hit in a turn you still reduce the burning damage), whilst you would need to flip moderate and severe to get the same value from reduction with stones. Seems legit. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information