Maniacal's battle reports & strategic analysis!

[ShinChan]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think the idea is that the original model (the one shooting the gun) is not always a legal target for the action, so 'another' isn't excluding the original model firing the gun. If it isn't excluding the shooter, then it must be excluding the original target.

Or so the argument would go.

Why not? Is a model? Yes, then is a legal target. 

If the action would be: "Remove a Scrap Marker" with a trigger: "Another Scrap Marker within 3" is removed". 

The model taking the action is not a legal subject (because he's a model, not a Scrap marker). In that case, another Scrap marker refers to "a different Scrap marker that wasn't the target". 

I can only guess that the intention of Wyrd wasn't to Ricochet or My Loyal Servant to the same model (or maybe yes, who knows), but following the FAQ, you can Ricochet to the original target. 

[Whut]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think the idea is that the original model (the one shooting the gun) is not always a legal target for the action, so 'another' isn't excluding the original model firing the gun. If it isn't excluding the shooter, then it must be excluding the original target.

Or so the argument would go.

EDIT: To clarify, the original shooter is not always a legal target because it is not always within 3".

Essentially this. The FAQ is currently a poor solution to the problem. This would never happen in practice, but imagine Wyrd designed a model with a Df trigger "Immediately Push 5" away from the attacking model." Suddenly every "another" trigger in the game would break because there exists a theoretical scenario where "another" can no longer legally mean the model with the trigger.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, ShinChan said:

Why not? Is a model? Yes, then is a legal target. 

If the action would be: "Remove a Scrap Marker" with a trigger: "Another Scrap Marker within 3" is removed". 

The model taking the action is not a legal subject (because he's a model, not a Scrap marker). In that case, another Scrap marker refers to "a different Scrap marker that wasn't the target". 

I can only guess that the intention of Wyrd wasn't to Ricochet or My Loyal Servant to the same model (or maybe yes, who knows), but following the FAQ, you can Ricochet to the original target. 

Sorry, I put an edit in, but the reasoning would be that because the original shooter isn't always within 3", it would "not always be a legal subject of the sentence."

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

I'm willing to admit that IF Ricochet doesn't allow you to hit the same model twice, then SVG are average at best. I'd still be hesitant to call them bad, they're a choice to add mobility to your crew in the same way you might take a sub-par model for condition removal, or marker removal, or healing.

The current consensus seems to be that you can, and I'm just rolling with it here (again, I don't play Arcanists).

It's strange to me that Wyrd, who are usually amazing at wording consistency, are leaving enough of a grey area here to even be questionable. They even almost solved this problem for themselves but then totally stumbled with the My Loyal Servant trigger - "Another model (other than this model)"

According to the FAQ and thus RaI, "Another model" should mean "other than this model," so why would this text need to remind the reader by restating "(other than this model)" unless normally "Another model" was supposed to mean "other than the target."

But if that were the intention, "Another model other than the target" would be the correct way of stating it, no parenthesis required and the base case remains "another model" = this model.

They really need to overhaul "another" officially and errata the cards but I doubt they want to because all the cards are printed and for sale.

• "Another model" = not the target
• "A model other than this model" = not this model

 

wind gamin brings mobility, but 2" push is not good mobility)) and we still have many questions to wyrds wordings))

[ShinChan]

3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Sorry, I put an edit in, but the reasoning would be that because the original shooter isn't always within 3", it would "not always be a legal subject of the sentence."

He will always be a legal subject, maybe not within range, but the trigger targets models and a SVG is always a model.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

Ricochet can hit the same model according to the FAQ and even if it couldn't, SVG are decent models, they provide a lot of card cycling and they're tough with Df/Wp 6, HtK, Shielded +1 (+2 with Magical Training and Counterspell), Stat 6 in both attacks, posibility of ignoring armor and printed Ricochet in a 10" shooting attack. They even bring utility with their mantra and can get a model out of engagement without  flipping a card.

I don't know what else could you want in a 8ss minion, but calling them gargabe is a nonsense. 

all that i say - only for people who play malifaux not only for fun, but for victory, so if u are not going to win every game-take svg, play with them; but if u want to play competitive - forget abt them

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

all that i say - only for people who play malifaux not only for fun, but for victory, so if u are not going to win every game-take svg, play with them; but if u want to play competitive - forget abt them

Haha, you should add this to your signature.

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

He will always be a legal subject, maybe not within range, but the trigger targets models and a SVG is always a model.

The wording is vague in several ways, so there's a couple degrees of weirdness, but I'd be happy to play it however.

[Whut]

48 minutes ago, Plaag said:

wind gamin brings mobility, but 2" push is not good mobility)) and we still have many questions to wyrds wordings))

There is a big difference between out-of-activation mobility and in-activation mobility.

There is also a big difference between 1 Wind Gamin placing a model 4" at the cost of his AP and giving EVERY Elemental within 6" getting free pushes for zero AP cost for the whole game.

There's a reason why on Turn 1 a fast Dead Rider is scarier and safer than a non-fast Dead Rider who is pushed forward 6" by another model. Or a Dead Rider who first charges an enemy model and then has to wait for someone else to pull him back. You, as a Colette player, should know this. Focus-shoot or Focus-charge, especially with one of the two models with Flurry in the crew, is much better than Placing out of combat, then letting your opponent go and possibly getting engaged again.

As you read the following list, keep in mind that every time you Concentrate instead of Walk, you...

• Draw a card
• Activate your Demise
• Deal 1 Damage to an enemy within 2" (least likely to occur)
• Get Focus +1, obviously

Now the non-exhaustive list:

• 2" is enough to exit combat without the disengage action, being unable to fail, allowing you to to Focus-Interact or Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge someone else
• 2" is enough to push into melee range when engaged by a 2" melee model, instead of having to walk.
• 2" can be enough to push around a corner, allowing you to Focus-Charge instead of Walk-Charge
• 2" can be enough to get into shooting range or charge range, allowing you to Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge instead of Walk
• 2" can be enough to push outside enemy Auras
• Often times, you don't need to move a full Walk, because you're already within 2" of the objective, or 2" will get you within 1 Walk of the objective, or you don't want to overextend Turn 1. Focus instead.
• You can 2" push before applying the 1 damage from Sandeep's Mantra, reaching new targets
• You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, dropping a Pyre Marker on top of more enemy models or on the opponent's table half for Research Mission
• You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, hitting new targets with 1 Damage and Poison, and putting new models into Catalyst range
• You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, reaching a new target with Wind Gamin's place effect

 

44 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

He will always be a legal subject, maybe not within range, but the trigger targets models and a SVG is always a model.

I see this distinction, and I like it. BUT I don't want to get into a 20 minute semantic debate every time it comes up with an opponent who is unfamiliar. Wyrd needs to clarify.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

There is a big difference between out-of-activation mobility and in-activation mobility.

There is also a big difference between 1 Wind Gamin placing a model 4" at the cost of his AP and giving EVERY Elemental within 6" getting free pushes for zero AP cost for the whole game.

There's a reason why on Turn 1 a fast Dead Rider is scarier and safer than a non-fast Dead Rider who is pushed forward 6" by another model. Or a Dead Rider who first charges an enemy model and then has to wait for someone else to pull him back. You, as a Colette player, should know this. Focus-shoot or Focus-charge, especially with one of the two models with Flurry in the crew, is much better than Placing out of combat, then letting your opponent go and possibly getting engaged again.

As you read the following list, keep in mind that every time you Concentrate instead of Walk, you...

• Draw a card
• Activate your Demise
• Deal 1 Damage to an enemy within 2" (least likely to occur)
• Get Focus +1, obviously

Now the non-exhaustive list:

• 2" is enough to exit combat without the disengage action, being unable to fail, allowing you to to Focus-Interact or Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge someone else
• 2" is enough to push into melee range when engaged by a 2" melee model, instead of having to walk.
• 2" can be enough to push around a corner, allowing you to Focus-Charge instead of Walk-Charge
• 2" can be enough to get into shooting range or charge range, allowing you to Focus-Shoot or Focus-Charge instead of Walk
• Often times, you don't need to move a full Walk, because you're already within 2" of the objective, or 2" will get you within 1 Walk of the objective, or you don't want to overextend Turn 1. Focus instead.
• You can 2" push before applying the 1 damage from Sandeep's Mantra, reaching new targets
• You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, dropping a Pyre Marker on top of more enemy models or on the opponent's table half for Research Mission
• You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, hitting new targets with 1 Damage and Poison, and putting new models into Catalyst range
• You can 2" push before applying Demise from Banasuva's Mantra, reaching a new target with Wind Gamin's place effect

 

I see this distinction, and I like it. BUT I don't want to get into a 20 minute semantic debate every time it comes up with an opponent who is unfamiliar. Wyrd needs to clarify.

svg are still useless

[Whut]

2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

svg are still useless

"Useless" he says.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

"Useless" he says.

u can read and copy their actions as many as u like, but they wont become better)

[Whut]

1 hour ago, Plaag said:

another means not target)) and seamus can easy jump to ice pillar, remove it and take a shot, bad plan; also seamus shoots only with focuses and concealment just makes him better; swg is garbage, they dont cost 8 ss; and it helps-if u are listening to me)

For the record, if you do this, Kandara staggers Seamus and then the whole crew kills him. Bad plan.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Biletsky said:

For the record, if you do this, Kandara staggers Seamus and then the whole crew kills him. Bad plan.

I already spotted that, but Seamus can jump away again (even if the pillar is removed) as long as he has a corpse in position.

Though I guess we'll see when the battle happens!

[Sagrit]

Guys, about that silly Ricochet and "another" meaning - let's move to Rules discussion section 

 

[Madsvg]

Great BR! 

I was confused a bit in the beginning seeing as it was Plaag that was recording it. 😅

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Madsvg said:

Great BR! 

I was confused a bit in the beginning seeing as it was Plaag that was recording it. 😅

Haha, I will clarify that in the future xD

[Vatic]

@Plaag magical training on Kaeris - are you primarily bringing this for the shielded? Do you find you get good value vs using the two stones for damage reduction?

I guess with MT you are normally reducing by 5 across the game (if she doesn't get hit in a turn you still reduce the burning damage), whilst you would need to flip moderate and severe to get the same value from reduction with stones. Seems legit. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I tried to set up some recording software, but it's had some issues. So these two will be written only!

Round one of the November World Series.

Tara vs Reva on Corner Symbols

The pool:

• Symbols of Authority on corner deployment
  • Leave your Mark
  • Catch and Release
  • Breakthrough
  • Let them Bleed
  • Vendetta

I lost this matchup, but it provided some really interesting insights. Basically one needs to be able to adapt on the fly in Malifaux!

He declared Tara and I declared Reva. This really threw a monkey wrench in my plans, because my plan with Reva on this strategy was to take a bunch of self-burying models. NOT a good plan against Tara, who would just proceed to kill every buried model I have. So I had to adapt. That meant no easy 'catch and release' using a bone pile.

So I check which of Outcast models have Don't Mind Me in Outcasts, and it was just Big Jake. I could handle him with ease, so I decided to go the route of taking Toshiro to make it hard to take my symbols.

His crew:

• Tara & Karina
• Aionus
• Nothing Beast
• Scion of the Void
• Midnight Stalker
• Hodgepodge Emissary

My crew:

• Reva & Corpse Candles
• Dead Rider
• Carrion Emissary
• Toshiro, The Daimyo
• Yin, The Penangalan.

WHOOPS. Turns out Hodgepodge Emissary can hand out 'Don't Mind Me'... I knew this, but I forgot. I don't think I'll ever forget the Tara + Hodgepodge Emissary combo again 🤣

Pre-game I noticed this luckily, so I decided to rework my plan. I wasn't able to take catch and release due to the matchup, and Let Them Bleed seemed unlikely on the big map. Breakthrough seemed like a lot of interacts on his side of the board. 

I wanted to be able to focus on stopping Tara and the Midnight Emissary - if they were dead, he couldn't score anymore. So I took Leave Your Mark and Vendetta (Emissary - Aionus). I figured Aionus was super high on my kill list anyway, and the Emissary's aura makes it a lot easier to finish him off.

Turn 2, I managed to kill Midnight Emissary with ease. My crew was very well set up for it (since Emissary denied his demise). From there, easy street! Just had to kill Tara and he wouldn't be able to score really.

I also manage to beat down Aionus turn 2 or 3, scoring vendetta. I leave him on one health with poison set to kill him (but he stones the poison to reduce the damage - he must have moved out of Emissary's aura somehow. I hadn't taken that possibility into account! I think he used his Emissary). So he got another activation out of Aionus, rough.

But what really lost the game for me is he used his summons to deny me scoring a point by snagging his symbol of authority. I foolishly commit to a battle for the symbol. From there, I slowly fall behind on symbols and just can't catch up (only scoring three during the game).

As a result, Tara runs around the board scoring symbols, AND denies my last Leave Your Mark because I forget engagement range doesn't stop her picking them up...

To win this game, what I needed to do was go kill Tara like the original plan, not panic that I wasn't scoring symbols. Ending the game 5-4 should have been my goal, instead I lost 6-7.

[Maniacal_cackle]

And sorry for posting two reports in a row, I'll try to be faster with the third week xD

World series November round 2: Molly vs Parker on Flank Corrupted Leylines

The pool:

• Leylines on Corner Deployment
  • Take Prisoner
  • Vendetta
  • Assassinate
  • Sabotage
  • Spread Them Out

Molly is my favourite into corrupted leylines atm, although she really is better on Wedge (see below). He declares Parker, and I have played the matchup a few times. All I know is I'm not wanting to voluntarily drop scheme markers, so I only have three options for schemes (although Sabotage for one point should be pretty doable with a crooligan and last activation, which Molly can force). So the declared crews were...

His crew:

• Parker & Doc
• Dead Outlaw
• Sue
• Mad Dog Brackett
• Hodgepodge Emissary
• Wokou Raider

My crew:

• Molly & Machine
• Dead Rider
• Archie
• Yin, The Penangalan
• Philip & The Nanny
• Night Terror
• Crooligan

So Mad Dog looks like he can do some serious damage, so I definitely want him out of the picture. Archie is fantastic for scoring Vendetta since he can really pick his fights, so he seemed like a natural Vendetta pick. I proceeded to just naturally flip 2 of my leaps during the game, and had the suit in hand the rest of the game with a little bit of work with card drawing.

Parker was the other serious threat, so taking assassinate to get him down seemed like the natural choice. I've played against him before, and he usually dies with concentrated fire. And since I had both Yin and the Dead Rider to kidnap him to put him into danger, both Vendetta and Assassinate seem like good choices.

I take the bottom left deployment on supply drop, which gives him a lot of severe terrain to walk over to get out of the top right. This sort of forces him to bunch up in the centre (which delivers the game to me on turn 3).

Turn 1 I tried to pull off the Dead Rider/Yin combo to kidnap his lodestone carrier (last activation of course, since I'm Molly). Unfortunately I had planned this out as if the strategy markers were on the corners of flank deployment, and not the centre. It wasn't actually viable to close the full distance, so I just had to use Yin and the Dead Rider fairly. I parked them both in a safe spot end of turn one to abuse turn 2.

Philip and the Nanny spends the entire game carting around the lodestone (and at one point gets a free disengage because the FAQ on manipulative is stupid and gives you auto-disengage).

End of turn 2, Dead Rider positions himself in the middle of his bunched up crew for the last activation.

Start of turn 3, Dead Rider ultimates for 15+ damage on turn 3 (and Archie gets 12+ damage smacking things around on turn 4), so his crew evaporates pretty quickly.

I definitely was pretty lucky this game, but also I think my positioning was pretty good. Molly hid behind a building peaking out, so she was able to snipe things down that got close (9 irreducible damage is nothing to sneeze at, so you have to respect Molly's threat range). She also removed any scheme markers that made it to my side of the table, along with the crooligan.

Turn 3, Molly just blew up the wokou raider holding his lodestone, forcing it onto Parker. This gave him awkward options, of trying to secure a leyline or just continuing the fight. But at this point he was at 3 life, so he just had to commit to the fight.

Killing Parker gives me the assassinate point, but also throws the lodestone to his emissary. He goes and sits on the marker.

Game ends 8-3. Basically not much someone can do once Dead Rider ultimates hitting ~5 models, and having 5-leap Archie at my disposal because he made every leap just carried the game. EDIT: I suppose I should also note positioning, and my superior mobility. It allowed me to dictate where the fighting occurred, and forced him to come up to the centreline (at which point I could just use my superior melee abilities to take him down).