Undergraduate By Your Side and Made to Kill

[Zły]

Hello,

Should Made To Kill be triggered when Undergraduate uses By Your Side or only when it is summoned.

Made To Kill: Once per Activation. After this model is Places, it may tak a /// Action after resolving the current Action

The bold is mine. Summoning is an Action, placing from By Your Side is not an Action, it is an Ability. My reasoning is that this

wording points to situation when model has been summoned (Action) and then Placed in which case it can do the /// Action or Placed from Action like Katashiro's Blown by the Wind and

when Place is a results of an Ability not an Action it should not trigger. Any thoughts? Possibly with other examples of similar Abilities.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I just had a quick read through of all the "after resolving the current action." abilities I could find, and most of them seem to be innately tied to an action in some way, so that didn't shed much light.

How I've been playing it is that you CAN take the attack, but I can see the argument the other way.

I'm not sure there is a definitive answer (unless the FAQ has something?)

[solkan]

2 hours ago, Zły said:

Summoning is an Action

Not always.  (Counter example:  End of turn condition resolution can kill models, and 'I'm done with this' is a summoning effect on being killed.  And there are models with abilities like Pyromaniac where they get the credit for the kill.)

VonSchtook's summoning mechanic requires a friendly transports model to kill another model, and all of them currently require performing an action to do that.

 

[MajorUndead]

If I remember correctly, I think that during the beta they said by your side was added to the undergraduate to get more usage of made to kill (at least it was one of the reasons). So it would look like the intended ruling was that they are able to.
But with the rule as written, the mention of resolving the current action might go either way. You could consider it as "you need to have an action so that you can fullfill the after the current action clause" or you could see it as "if there is an action being resolved, you finish it before you do the bonus attack, but if there isn't a current action, then you can attack right away before waiting for anything to finish resolving)

[Zły]

Small update on that. I found that Scamper is similar ability to Made to Kill

The difference is that the former specifies that it can be triggered after Ability and Action and says when it should be done while

Made to Kill only described Place in context of Action. 

 

It really wouldn't hurt game devs to add this 'or Ability' to Made to Kill if it is suppose to work always.  

[Paddywhack]

On 10/2/2020 at 8:31 AM, MajorUndead said:

If I remember correctly, I think that during the beta they said by your side was added to the undergraduate to get more usage of made to kill (at least it was one of the reasons). So it would look like the intended ruling was that they are able to.

That is my recollection as well. Otherwise it wouldn't even trigger on a summon (which is also an Ability). If it doesn't trigger on an Ability, then when would you get to use it? There is no one in Keyword I can think of that causes a Place and few in Faction (Ride with me, Dead Rider Reap, ?). What else would be the purpose of Made to Kill if there is pretty much no way to get it to work? 

It certainly seems like it was originally a reason to summon them rather than something else. By Your Side was added later in Beta and just worked well with it. I don't think I've ever seen it played without allowing it. 

[Cranky Old Man]

I've always played it does work on placement. Reading the rules I may be wrong. Definitely needs a FAQ.

[Edek]

@Paddywhack the Summon happens as a result of killing a model (most likely an Action), that's why it would trigger Made to Kill. I don't see why the wouldn't add 'or Ability' to Made to Kill as they did for Scamper if it was supposed to work that way.

[Ogid]

This has come up before. Those clauses seems to instruct what to do if that happens in the middle of an action/ability, but they don't seem to restrict it to only happen there.

Take a look to Aversion's Antipathy aura. It has that "after resolving the current action" clause but also specifies that the push of this Antipathy aura (which happens outside of an action) cannot trigger other Antipathy auras. Hence that ability is intended to trigger outside of actions even when it has that "after resolving the current action".

[Edek]

So the fact that Scamper has specified Action or Ability is simply Wyrd being inconsistent with their wording?

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Edek said:

So the fact that Scamper has specified Action or Ability is simply Wyrd being inconsistent with their wording?

No, it's just wyrd deciding they want scamper not to happen in the middle of resolving an ability.