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RCT 10: Facing Arcanists.


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seamus is a magnet for bj, u see 3 cards with whisper and fourth card is bj))

One of my favourite black joker stories is the bayou gremlins I had that black jokered both his attacks against bad juju one turn ( the deck got a reshuffle after the first one) but since bad juju bla

Lol, it's actually true asuming a fresh deck. Well, another reason to hoard that card like your life depends on it when it's drawn!

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So Anna is a good take vs Sandeep and mei as she can interfere with what they are trying to do, molly and vonstook can make fire golems miserable and mcmoring can make ice and metal golems miserable (and ikiryo can make all golems miserable) 

 

Anna also do a little bit vs Hoffman by removing his scrap but it's generally not crucial to his game plan and she's going to struggle to have impact in other ways 

 

Oxfordian Mage can make mcmoring sad as well turning his crews poison in to slow, while the scorpius can make his poisonturn of stones and triggers 

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On 9/19/2020 at 3:06 PM, Plaag said:

lets play?)

Sorry my friend, not playing on vassal anymore. My local scene has started playing in-person games again. It sucks wearing a mask the whole time, but it's better than slogging through a 4 hour vassal game (For me they always took longer).

 

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On 9/19/2020 at 1:49 PM, Speedguyjp said:

Nope

I agree with @Plaag here. Reva's crew is definitely on a disadvantage when all your models are going to suffer from injured in order to keep the burning party on fire. Maybe you've won that matchup, but that doesn't mean that Reva's is on a disadvantage, just that you played better.

Most of Kaeris crew can take advantage of burning, while for Revenants is only Reva and Draugrs. Also, while hitting a Pyre marker, you're lowering your Df/Wp until the end of the turn.

And I'm saying this after having played Reva a lot.

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1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

I agree with @Plaag here. Reva's crew is definitely on a disadvantage when all your models are going to suffer from injured in order to keep the burning party on fire. Maybe you've won that matchup, but that doesn't mean that Reva's is on a disadvantage, just that you played better.

Most of Kaeris crew can take advantage of burning, while for Revenants is only Reva and Draugrs. Also, while hitting a Pyre marker, you're lowering your Df/Wp until the end of the turn.

And I'm saying this after having played Reva a lot.

the problem is that reva and shes crew are very weak; u can ask yourself- what should i do with reva? schemerunning?...no, dmgdealing?...no, anti-shemerunning?...no; so for what is that master and all its crew?

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1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

I agree with @Plaag here. Reva's crew is definitely on a disadvantage when all your models are going to suffer from injured in order to keep the burning party on fire. Maybe you've won that matchup, but that doesn't mean that Reva's is on a disadvantage, just that you played better.

 

Perhaps I played better, and I appreciate the assumption, but I don't think that's entirely it. It could be a playstyle difference too. In the 5 games the injured stack didn't factor into the game that much. I focus generating as much burning on the first turn when the risk of engaging the opponent is limited too because if I've stacked 2-3 burning on someone but the opponent can't reach the injured is wasted and I get a couple turns worth of potential value on it before the burning recedes. Most of the time I'm loading up burning on Reva herself which does injure her, but it also gives her several points of shielded a turn generally which mitigates the impact of any incoming damage. And when you pair her with the candles and other corpses she usually isn't that exposed due to her ability to hit at range. Of course if you stick her in the middle of a scrum where the opponent gets multiple activations to hit her the injured will make a bigger difference, but for me it's rare for an opponent to get more than 2 melee attacks a game on her. And even then I'm usually using "take the hit" from a shieldbearer or summoned ashigaru (with Toshiro). 

My opponent usually takes a fire golem, Elijah Borgman, Iggy, and "the great" carlos vasquez among the other standard arcanist stuff (miner, arcane reservoir upgrade, multiple soulstone caches). The golem goes down in one round after its burning is stripped. Honestly Elijah Borgman gives me the biggest trouble. 

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1 minute ago, Speedguyjp said:

Perhaps I played better, and I appreciate the assumption, but I don't think that's entirely it. It could be a playstyle difference too. In the 5 games the injured stack didn't factor into the game that much. I focus generating as much burning on the first turn when the risk of engaging the opponent is limited too because if I've stacked 2-3 burning on someone but the opponent can't reach the injured is wasted and I get a couple turns worth of potential value on it before the burning recedes. Most of the time I'm loading up burning on Reva herself which does injure her, but it also gives her several points of shielded a turn generally which mitigates the impact of any incoming damage. And when you pair her with the candles and other corpses she usually isn't that exposed due to her ability to hit at range. Of course if you stick her in the middle of a scrum where the opponent gets multiple activations to hit her the injured will make a bigger difference, but for me it's rare for an opponent to get more than 2 melee attacks a game on her. And even then I'm usually using "take the hit" from a shieldbearer or summoned ashigaru (with Toshiro). 

My opponent usually takes a fire golem, Elijah Borgman, Iggy, and "the great" carlos vasquez among the other standard arcanist stuff (miner, arcane reservoir upgrade, multiple soulstone caches). The golem goes down in one round after its burning is stripped. Honestly Elijah Borgman gives me the biggest trouble. 

How do you give multiple points of shielded to Reva if Spirits in Flames is "Once per activation"?

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1 hour ago, Speedguyjp said:

Perhaps I played better, and I appreciate the assumption, but I don't think that's entirely it. It could be a playstyle difference too. In the 5 games the injured stack didn't factor into the game that much. I focus generating as much burning on the first turn when the risk of engaging the opponent is limited too because if I've stacked 2-3 burning on someone but the opponent can't reach the injured is wasted and I get a couple turns worth of potential value on it before the burning recedes. Most of the time I'm loading up burning on Reva herself which does injure her, but it also gives her several points of shielded a turn generally which mitigates the impact of any incoming damage. And when you pair her with the candles and other corpses she usually isn't that exposed due to her ability to hit at range. Of course if you stick her in the middle of a scrum where the opponent gets multiple activations to hit her the injured will make a bigger difference, but for me it's rare for an opponent to get more than 2 melee attacks a game on her. And even then I'm usually using "take the hit" from a shieldbearer or summoned ashigaru (with Toshiro). 

My opponent usually takes a fire golem, Elijah Borgman, Iggy, and "the great" carlos vasquez among the other standard arcanist stuff (miner, arcane reservoir upgrade, multiple soulstone caches). The golem goes down in one round after its burning is stripped. Honestly Elijah Borgman gives me the biggest trouble. 

your friend need to take normal models)) fire golem, iggy? they are bad models

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43 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

How do you give multiple points of shielded to Reva if Spirits in Flames is "Once per activation"?

Some common ways are 1) Shieldbearer removing a corpse candle with blasphemous ritual 2) Toshiro removing one for summoning 3) Reva removing one with Killer Instinct (I sometimes take this upgrade)

It's once per activation. not once per turn. If I activate Reva between a shieldbearer and Toshiro I can remove, summon and remove, and remove to get 3 pyre markers worth of shenanigans in the first turn (although only two markers remain because you need one to summon the candle)

 

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8 minutes ago, Speedguyjp said:

Some common ways are 1) Shieldbearer removing a corpse candle with blasphemous ritual 2) Toshiro removing one for summoning 3) Reva removing one with Killer Instinct (I sometimes take this upgrade)

It's once per activation. not once per turn. If I activate Reva between a shieldbearer and Toshiro I can remove, summon and remove, and remove to get 3 pyre markers worth of shenanigans in the first turn (although only two markers remain because you need one to summon the candle)

 

I must be missing something, so could you go into details?

  1. Shieldbearer removes a Corpse Candle with Blasphemous Ritual.
  2. Toshiro removes a Corpse Candle with Unending Fealty.
  3. Reva removing a Corpse Candle with Loot Their Corpse.

First of all, the Pyre markers are dropped, and as per the rules, they don't trigger the effects (p. 28 of the errated rules):

image.png.086a8f0729f2a1fc9a4c69ea0aacf802.png

So for the 2 first cases, Reva wouldn't gain any shielded.

For the 3rd case, Reva would remove the Corpse Candle, and so generating a Pyre marker in the C.3 step of the Detailed Timing (p. 35), which is still her activation, so it can be used to trigger Spirits in Flames a second time.

Yes, you can have three Pyre Markers, but you only trigger the effects once (p. 36):

image.png.3e72828ae1716ec71747be422bb7a2ac.png

Even if you could get Shielded +3, I don't think it will be worth to drop Reva's defenses to Df2/Wp3, unless the enemy doesn't have any threads to activate.

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2 hours ago, Plaag said:

your friend need to take normal models)) fire golem, iggy? they are bad models

To expand on this, I assume Plaag uses powerful versatile and OOK. Arcanists also have amazing upgrades. Check out his videos on YouTube.

Their rider and emissary are bonkers with soulstone cache. Coryphee duet is an absolutely insane model (at this stage I haven't played against it, but seems like a candidate for best non master model in the game?) Not sure if he uses it OOK.

Compared to power-gamed Arcanists, a lot of things are going to be weak xD

So Reva beating Kaeris I totally believe, but it is the rest of her crew that is going to be pretty dice-y. Reva also does not cope with armor well, which Arcanists have in spades.

So overall Reva is someone I'd save for other matchups (she does great against Outcasts for me so far).

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4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Which does raise the question, who should we be declaring blind against Arcanists?

Naturally I'm going to claim Molly, but I'm putting that to the test on Sunday against Plaag 😜

From this weekend's action vs. Colette I can tell you it's not Seamus!

The fact that they have access to a versatile model (The Captain) that can basically shut down a master isn't that great. Between his aura (-2 damage), armor, soulstones, and magical training (shielded), (and fade away on Colette) I was looking at -4 or -6 damage off of a 4/6/8 damage track. Seriously deterred me from even doing anything fun except jump around the board and scheme a little bit.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

I must be missing something, so could you go into details?

  1. Shieldbearer removes a Corpse Candle with Blasphemous Ritual.
  2. Toshiro removes a Corpse Candle with Unending Fealty.
  3. Reva removing a Corpse Candle with Loot Their Corpse.

First of all, the Pyre markers are dropped, and as per the rules, they don't trigger the effects (p. 28 of the errated rules):

image.png.086a8f0729f2a1fc9a4c69ea0aacf802.png

So for the 2 first cases, Reva wouldn't gain any shielded.

For the 3rd case, Reva would remove the Corpse Candle, and so generating a Pyre marker in the C.3 step of the Detailed Timing (p. 35), which is still her activation, so it can be used to trigger Spirits in Flames a second time.

Yes, you can have three Pyre Markers, but you only trigger the effects once (p. 36):

image.png.3e72828ae1716ec71747be422bb7a2ac.png

Even if you could get Shielded +3, I don't think it will be worth to drop Reva's defenses to Df2/Wp3, unless the enemy doesn't have any threads to activate.

Hmmmm. This is interesting. I haven't been playing it this way and will have to check out the rules. I'm assuming you are correct, which would mean a lot of things don't happen (injured, shielded, burning) when the markers Drop. It does change the equation perhaps - I will have to test it out.

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23 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Which does raise the question, who should we be declaring blind against Arcanists?

Naturally I'm going to claim Molly, but I'm putting that to the test on Sunday against Plaag 😜

I think it's wisest that Ressers simply concede when they're unfortunate enough to draw an Arcanists opponent. We're the best. ;)

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1 minute ago, HomelessOne said:

I think it's wisest that Ressers simply concede when they're unfortunate enough to draw an Arcanists opponent. We're the best. ;)

Unless you play for fun.

Plus if you lose against Arcanists, you just lost to powergamers. If you win, you did the impossible. So it is win-win.

So get out of here with your demoralizing talk, dirty Arcanists. We will triumph regardless 😜

(There is a thread for shit-talking up in the "standing up for ressers" thread if you want to tell me how doomed I am Sunday. But I request that here we try to stay constructive if possible).

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I ended up playing Seamus vs Mei this week, it ended 7-4. We called it at the end of turn 4 since he only had Mei at 2hp, Metal golem and a gamin left. 

It was Corrupted Leylines, with Hidden Martyrs, Assassinate, Leave your Mark, Spread them out, and let them bleed.

I took Leave your Mark and Assassinate while my opponent took spread them out and leave your mark I believe? Was a good game, but seamus went on a killing spree as usual 😛

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18 minutes ago, Wyamphri said:

I ended up playing Seamus vs Mei this week, it ended 7-4. We called it at the end of turn 4 since he only had Mei at 2hp, Metal golem and a gamin left. 

It was Corrupted Leylines, with Hidden Martyrs, Assassinate, Leave your Mark, Spread them out, and let them bleed.

I took Leave your Mark and Assassinate while my opponent took spread them out and leave your mark I believe? Was a good game, but seamus went on a killing spree as usual 😛

What did your opponent score, do you remember? Did Lure pay off for the token?

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The lures/take by the hand definitely helped since he needed to dedicate atleast two models to score a leyline since he would need something to Magnetize I believe is the name of the ability, to reposition or toss the stone to score. He got 3 since his crew can still just walk out of engagements, or have other ways to push but it started being a problem when he only had 3 models XD aaaaaand he got spread them out early since his crew is just so fast until you start taking away some of the models. He had the early VP lead, which I expected but then Seamus killed Rider, Kang, 1 Gamin and a Survivor and then I won :P

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2 hours ago, Wyamphri said:

I ended up playing Seamus vs Mei this week, it ended 7-4. We called it at the end of turn 4 since he only had Mei at 2hp, Metal golem and a gamin left. 

It was Corrupted Leylines, with Hidden Martyrs, Assassinate, Leave your Mark, Spread them out, and let them bleed.

I took Leave your Mark and Assassinate while my opponent took spread them out and leave your mark I believe? Was a good game, but seamus went on a killing spree as usual 😛

seamus is easy to counterpick when u hire ss users, i dont hire captain against him; so seamus cant kill any model each turn and his keyword is very weak too; so the rule playing against seamus-dont hire minions and enforsers that he can kil with 1 activation

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Well from what I've read on here, you're pretty good, so I'm glad the advice I gave was about word for word what ya said too.  Although, relying on SS flips can be kinda gambling. I know you say it's an easy thing to do, but bad stuff happens too, and taking all Henchmen or in the case of arcanists, take an upgrade, and you flip that weak, what else can you do to help mitigate the high spike? Do you find this is enough to slow down the cannon that is Seamus?

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