Maniacal_cackle Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 You may have seen it in the other thread, but Ressers have been declared the weakest faction in Malifaux. Unable to stand for this, I have issued a (friendly) challenge to defend Ressers' honour! I'm making a thread here to ask for any advice people might have, although the pools and lists are decided. So looking for in game advice! Here's the details: The pool: Board: Floodlands on vassal Recover Evidence on Standard Deployment Assassinate Claim Jump Hidden Martyrs Leave Your Mark Runic Binding My list: Molly & Machine Kirai + The Whisper Dead Rider Archie Crooligan Crooligan Their list: Colette & Doves Arcane Emissary w/ Soulstone cache Mechanical Rider w/ Soulstone cache Coryphee Coryphee Silent one w/ magical training I have very little experience against Colette, but know he might try the trick where he triple activates the Coryphee duet turn 2 onward. He will also be putting down heaps of pillars with the Silent One. Suggestions welcome! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoffer Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 Some useful things that you should know about Colette: 1. Colette is very mobile. She can bury herself and unbury next to her model or scheme marker at the start of her next activation. Kill the Doves to reduce her mobility. 2. Colette can hit and hide. A typical beginning of the game is: Coryphees give Colette focuses, Rider gives her a ride, she runs into your crew, kills some important support piece (Sword Trick deals 3/4/6 damage) and buries herself. Applause!!! Your crew looks well protected with htw and armour on cheap models, but keep this threat in mind. 3. Colette is very hard to take down with direct damage. She has Serene Countenance and a nasty trigger on both DF (built in) and WP. If you try to hit her, she buries and pops out elsewhere. You can try to catch her with a combination of Drowned (to poison her with attack against MV) and Necrotic Machine (to ban triggers), but it will not be easy. 4. Colette is very annoying. She makes every enemy in (3) Distracted, when unburies, and every Distructed enemy that activates within (6) from her becomes Stunned. Her melee attack also gives Distracted and Stunned. 5. The Rider can reactivate itself to do schemes. Sometimes it's even better than reactivating the Duet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: You may have seen it in the other thread, but Ressers have been declared the weakest faction in Malifaux. Who says that? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedguyjp Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 I just played a game of Reva vs. Colette Colette was definitely a pain and seems very strong. However, I actually basically ignored her the whole game. Unless you can easily deny resistance triggers I wouldn't waste any AP even attacking her. You're just giving her additional mobility. So don't take assassinate. I agree with Scoffer on killing the doves. It's relatively easy to do and just limits where she can go. Also don't forget that Colette's presto-chango can really jack with the positioning. You might think you're out of range but you're not. Once he forms into the Duet he'll only have 5 models once the doves are down so hopefully you can use your AP to your advantage. He's got a lot of models that can soulstones but has a small number to start, so he'll have to be choosey. In my game against Colette, honestly the MVP of his crew was the Silent One. The ranged healing was a pain to deal. I would put hidden martyrs on Archie and a crooligan and put Archie like a missile towards the silent one to take her out. If you see the chance take out the Silent One first. It will be hard because he'll have it on the backlines, but maybe with Leap or using one of Kirai's summons you can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 This is one of those cases I wish Crooked Men were Versatile. They deny Resistance Triggers (and I like the models, but never get to use them anymore). Are those lists stuck? You don't seem to have anyway to remove conditions and Colette can give out a lot of conditions. I second going hard after the Silent One if you can. Kirai's Summons or Archie. Lethe's Caress should help ping Coryphee and other beaters. I find Drowned make good roadblocks for beaters - not being able to cheat can really hurt. I also agree that ignoring Colette (as much as possible) is a decent move. She is so hard to pin down that I'm not sure how you ever kill her. I would say that Resurrs is the most 'balanced' faction. We can seem under par when other factions have things that are less balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alerteddonkey42 Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Graf said: Who says that? 🤔 Right? I have trouble seeing them as worse than Guild. I mean, just compare the upgrades for a start... Edit: I've also seen it argued that they are secretly one of the strongest (even on some podcasts I've heard them referred to as at least in the top 3). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: I would say that Resurrs is the most 'balanced' faction. We can seem under par when other factions have things that are less balanced. I would agree but Von Schtoock is not. I would compare his keyword minions to Augmented Augmented +2 armor ==> -1hp Transmortis +1 armor, HTW ==> +1hp Tell me where is balance in this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 I'm eager to hear how it goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaag Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 i sayed all this things abt ressers, and im going to prove my words, beware)) dead must be dead) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinChan Posted September 16, 2020 Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, eddy said: I would agree but Von Schtoock is not. I would compare his keyword minions to Augmented Augmented +2 armor ==> -1hp Transmortis +1 armor, HTW ==> +1hp Tell me where is balance in this In Augmented having access to irreducible damage (5/6/7)? In Augmented having a bunch of free "out of engagement" actions? In the posibility of have their armor not ignored? In more long range firepower? Not saying that Augmented is better than Transmortis, but they definitely have their tricks too 15 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: You may have seen it in the other thread, but Ressers have been declared the weakest faction in Malifaux. Unable to stand for this, I have issued a (friendly) challenge to defend Ressers' honour! I'm making a thread here to ask for any advice people might have, although the pools and lists are decided. So looking for in game advice! Here's the details: The pool: Board: Floodlands on vassal Recover Evidence on Standard Deployment Assassinate Claim Jump Hidden Martyrs Leave Your Mark Runic Binding My list: Molly & Machine Kirai + The Whisper Dead Rider Archie Crooligan Crooligan Their list: Colette & Doves Arcane Emissary w/ Soulstone cache Mechanical Rider w/ Soulstone cache Coryphee Coryphee Silent one w/ magical training I have very little experience against Colette, but know he might try the trick where he triple activates the Coryphee duet turn 2 onward. He will also be putting down heaps of pillars with the Silent One. Suggestions welcome! I really don't like Archie's pick. But well, I don't like Archie much these days (I still play him tho), but I can see the reason behind picking him (By Your Side). I would try to maximize Kirai's summoning, bringing 2 Drowneds and Ikiryo to the table as soon as possible. Drowneds are going to be great hitting models with upgrades + they're tanky, they have a very annoying shooting action and they can deliver Stunned with Stat 6. Archie sucks at killing, specially people with Armor (the Duet, the Emissary), people with HtW (The rider), and any model that can reduce damage (the 3 of them + the Silent One). If I were @Plaag I would abuse Archie's defense with the shoot of the Rider to refill my hand of cards after you activate Molly (Stat 6 vs Df 4), more than to use the reactivate trigger. You Rider is an easy pray for Colette, that only needs to appear close to him to give him Distracted and he will gain Stunned when activates, unless you force Colette to bury. So basically, imho, you shot yourself in the foot with Archie + Dead Rider (you can probe me wrong ) and you will have to rely mainly in Kirai and her summons to gain the advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted September 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2020 Eek, good point that my team doesn't line up smoothly. Guess I should have taken Anna Lovelace! Ah well, am stuck with it and will see how it goes. I'm reading all these suggestions and taking notes, so thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted September 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Scoffer said: 4. Colette is very annoying. She makes every enemy in (3) Distracted, when unburies, and every Distructed enemy that activates within (6) from her becomes Stunned. Her melee attack also gives Distracted and Stunned. All useful tips, but this one especially I was underestimating. Thanks for the heads up! 11 hours ago, Speedguyjp said: In my game against Colette, honestly the MVP of his crew was the Silent One. The ranged healing was a pain to deal. I would put hidden martyrs on Archie and a crooligan and put Archie like a missile towards the silent one to take her out. If you see the chance take out the Silent One first. It will be hard because he'll have it on the backlines, but maybe with Leap or using one of Kirai's summons you can do it. The first thing I did was work out how to kill the Silent One, so I have a few possible methods. The problem is they aren't worth it. Even if I have hidden martyrs, it's not worth it swapping Archie for the Silent One (especially since he gets a point as well if I do that). Instead I will try to have a kill plan for all his models, and I will see what he leaves vulnerable. 10 hours ago, Paddywhack said: Are those lists stuck? You don't seem to have anyway to remove conditions and Colette can give out a lot of conditions. .... I also agree that ignoring Colette (as much as possible) is a decent move. She is so hard to pin down that I'm not sure how you ever kill her. He'd probably let me change the lists around, but I think I'd rather treat it as stuck and not give myself TOO much of an advantage. One advantage of Archie is he'll be immune to all those conditions (although also immune to focus!) For Colette, I could also see it be worthwhile taking assassinate to punish him for just rushing her into my crew, which it seems like he is likely to do... I have three different methods to get her health down low enough to score at least one point (and probably 2 points), but I'm not sure if it is efficient enough... That serene countenance definitely causes some funkiness! 7 hours ago, ShinChan said: I really don't like Archie's pick. But well, I don't like Archie much these days (I still play him tho), but I can see the reason behind picking him (By Your Side). I would try to maximize Kirai's summoning, bringing 2 Drowneds and Ikiryo to the table as soon as possible. Drowneds are going to be great hitting models with upgrades + they're tanky, they have a very annoying shooting action and they can deliver Stunned with Stat 6. Archie sucks at killing, specially people with Armor (the Duet, the Emissary), people with HtW (The rider), and any model that can reduce damage (the 3 of them + the Silent One). If I were @Plaag I would abuse Archie's defense with the shoot of the Rider to refill my hand of cards after you activate Molly (Stat 6 vs Df 4), more than to use the reactivate trigger. You Rider is an easy pray for Colette, that only needs to appear close to him to give him Distracted and he will gain Stunned when activates, unless you force Colette to bury. So basically, imho, you shot yourself in the foot with Archie + Dead Rider (you can probe me wrong ) and you will have to rely mainly in Kirai and her summons to gain the advantage. I see Archie as a scheme runner first and foremost, but he definitely is feeling weak this season. I'm not sure whether I'll ditch him entirely, but he is sort of core to my entire playstyle with Molly. I feel like I'd have to ditch the keyword, so I'm hanging onto him tighter than I should xD The summons are a great point, but also Goryo may end up being critical. Their heal prevention may be my best bet of dealing with the silent one if he protects it. Good tip about the Rider. I wouldn't have thought of it, and now at least have some plans to mitigate it. Thanks heaps for all the suggestions folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranky Old Man Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 Hold the banner high! For my little bit of advice, don’t get bogged down in what he is doing. VPs mean winning, concentrate on getting yours and don’t worry too much about what he is doing unless the models are in your face. Get your vps as quick as you can 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 Need to be careful about your low WP models getting grabbed with Presto-Chango. Also, if Colette does end up playing aggressive, remember her trigger isn't built in for WP, and she can't use it at all for MV. I agree that the Drowned could be nice. If you can stick Distracted on Colette, Mecharachnid or the Duet, it will reduce their efficiency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saduhem Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 12 hours ago, Paddywhack said: This is one of those cases I wish Crooked Men were Versatile. They deny Resistance Triggers (and I like the models, but never get to use them anymore). Are those lists stuck? You don't seem to have anyway to remove conditions and Colette can give out a lot of conditions. I second going hard after the Silent One if you can. Kirai's Summons or Archie. Lethe's Caress should help ping Coryphee and other beaters. I find Drowned make good roadblocks for beaters - not being able to cheat can really hurt. I also agree that ignoring Colette (as much as possible) is a decent move. She is so hard to pin down that I'm not sure how you ever kill her. I would say that Resurrs is the most 'balanced' faction. We can seem under par when other factions have things that are less balanced. Crooked men are Mv 4 and melt like butter. They wouldn't make a difference in my opinion. Even in Tormented they're a tough sell. I wish they were a tiny bit better. For the rest of the advice: If you can summon anything, summon Goryo or Shikome. The rest isn't worth it unless you REALLY don't have the cards. Don't bring in Mv 4 Drowned that are just going to be ignored. Turn 2 and beyond try to get 2 activations out of Ikiryo if possible. Ideally you want her to activate, die, resummon, reactivate. So Activate Kirai after Ikiryo if possible. Archie you can use for scheming, but he's not going to be killing anything. The only thing he's ok against is conditions, he's pretty bad vs any form of defensive tech. If I were playing Colette, I'd Presto-Chango him into the Duet and take him out fast and negate any use the Crooligans would ever have. Df/Wp 4 is going to hurt vs 6 and 7 stats. If it weren't for the Crooligans, I'd actually just ignore the guy as he's not really a threat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saduhem Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 And I forgot... Good Luck!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Plaag said: i sayed all this things abt ressers, and im going to prove my words, beware)) dead must be dead) tbh, I don't know what a single game against Arcanists proves about such a broad statement, but oh well... At least it gets the discussion going and that's worth something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted September 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Graf said: tbh, I don't know what a single game against Arcanists proves about such a broad statement, but oh well... At least it gets the discussion going and that's worth something. Haha, I think Plaag likes a bit of trash talk but is mostly looking for challenging games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedguyjp Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: The first thing I did was work out how to kill the Silent One, so I have a few possible methods. The problem is they aren't worth it. Even if I have hidden martyrs, it's not worth it swapping Archie for the Silent One (especially since he gets a point as well if I do that). Good luck in your game - will be rooting for you of course. BUT, you might feel differently about this in your post game... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 11 hours ago, Saduhem said: Crooked men are Mv 4 and melt like butter. They wouldn't make a difference in my opinion. Even in Tormented they're a tough sell. I wish they were a tiny bit better. I find few of our minions don't melt like butter. And why in heck are they 7SS? I haven't bothered to use them as I don't play Jack and 8SS OOK seems way too high for what they do. I can grab a OOK Drowned and have had a lot of success with them (as long as you have a way to move them). I can't justify 8ss for a Crooked Man though. Their attack ignoring Resistance Triggers is great, but not worth that much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saduhem Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: I find few of our minions don't melt like butter. And why in heck are they 7SS? I haven't bothered to use them as I don't play Jack and 8SS OOK seems way too high for what they do. I can grab a OOK Drowned and have had a lot of success with them (as long as you have a way to move them). I can't justify 8ss for a Crooked Man though. Their attack ignoring Resistance Triggers is great, but not worth that much. I really wanted them to be tweaked a bit more in Beta. Maybe a future errata will make them more appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 You got yoursef into trouble this time . Some advice: In this game the best target to reactivate (when looking for damage, not just scoring) is the Emissary more than the Duet, he didn't bring the Mobile toolkit and versus H2W that min 2 damage isn't that hot even with Focused. The emissary has min 3 that goes better versus H2W, he has a SS cache to farm SS from killing your models (and he will also trigger his Regen twice)... I think you are versus Rodeo Colette XD. Reactivating the Emissary he could manage to deal 6 attacks that turn with him (4 versus 1 model and 2 versus other, he will probably stone/cheat Shove Aside frecuently; and he could time a back to back activation on top of that), that's enough to kill even Archie if he can pass all 4 territying duels or a Rider with few fate tokens (or stunned) if all attacks connect and also deal good damage to other models. Expect him trying something like that. Don't get baited into overextending to kill the Silent one! That one has attuned and Magical training, it's a trap. Colette may recolocate her, bury the attacking model or just kill the overextended model; it's not worth it. You have Kirai's Mark of Vengeance on his minions, just deny a model the healing and focus that one model down instead of diving hard to kill the support. You don't have a heavy corpse play, but an small quirk you should know to not give her easy healing: The Silent one can eat corpses through pilars. The Duet is very vulnerable to conditions, slow and/or stunned will reduce a lot his efficiency when replacing; the Rider's Scythe can also make his activation less efficient if you move one away from the other. Mind he Emissary aura, it's very nasty, but on the bright side you might use it to trigger your fadings. I guess you are aware of it, but just in case: Colette first turn will try to swap one of your activated models for a dove with Presto chango, leaving it in range of 1 or 2 enemy beaters; that move has an insane range so mind your positioning and activation order the first turn; her doves positioning the first turn is a good indicator of it (something at 17.2'' of a dove is in danger of it). Also mind Constructive Criticism could give you 2 extra activations with your list and as he included 2 coryphees instead of a duet, he won't get the extra activation the firs turn; consider that if you feel dangerous activating some model too early. Your Wp7 models are quite safe if you got a 13 (she could only swap with a RJ) and will be very safe if you got a RJ in your initial hand (only a RJ/BJ may ruin that); so you might risk activating those eary if you got a good hand. Pay attention to this because if she gets one of your good model sniped early, you'll have a very rough game. And bit more about her as you say you don't have a lot of experience facing her: Another characteristic of Colette is that she is very hard to pin down. If she feel threatened (like if you had a way to deny her trigger or a model able to stun her without attacking), she can just activate, unbury, do her thing, stone/cheat her Twist Ending and bury; you will have 0 ways to threaten her even if you had the right tools and she will be able to unbury the next turn where she could disrupt you the most. If she doesn't feel like doing that, she can keep herself in the table; that reduces where she may act the next turn; but she has a mele range 2 and Ilusionist to further control models and then she will bury one of your models. If she stays in the table, don't attack her unless you can do massive damage or you can deny her trigger because she will bury and stone if needed for a reduction of 3 to 5 damage; you'll waste an attack and she will be able to further punish you the next turn... Disturbing Story seems to be effective versus her on paper, she will get 3 damage no matter what and the mask trigger isn't built in (but she could just cheat a low tome as there is no damage flip or just stone it)... you won't kill her unless she is at very low Wds, which is unlikely, and you will probably give her a free bury anyway so I'm not 100% sold with it tbh. It might be worth it if you really want her to bury for some reason (remove Ilusionist or her 2'' range) or if she is very low on resources. Going without condition removal versus her is a bit bold tho... you can always assist to remove Distracted... try to summon Gakis out of his doves or use a crooligan/the necrotic machine for this in a pinch; but the Rider is vulnerable versus her as she may give him stunned with Distracting Illusion with stat 7 and then smash him with another model while his defensive trigger is disabled... consider activating him after Colette in turns 2+ so you may at least end stunned before another model can attack him. Looking at his list a bit more there is one particular combo I want to highlight as Plaag is the kind of player that like to look for those: Her Sword Trick may target friendly models; yes it deals 3 damage but versus the Emissary with Armor+1 and Regen+1 it'll be only 1 net damage most of the time. Then that model may use your scheme markers as unbury points and brutalize any model nearby; combine this with a double activation from the Rider and SS cache for damage reduction/triggers on the Emissary and that's a quite dangerous combo; mind your own schemes XD. And about schemes... Colette is very tricky so this is another point to pay attention. Mind his bury make most models risky for Claim Jump as they will get buried the last turn, only a Wp7 model might hope to score 2 points and only if you get a good hand and enough discipline to save that good card the last turn. Also Assassinate is legit for her as she only has to bury the enemy leader the last turn after he activates to kill him; Molly has a lot of defensive tech, but if she is the target of this scheme, consider saving her activation for late the last turn so you can unbury her and deny that point (this is also true for your living Martyr if she knows who he is). Go overkill with Scheme markers if you got one of those because she got Don't mind me and can bury models; parking some 40+ mm models over them to keep them safe won't work. I hope it helps, Good luck! 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted September 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 So some want an alpha strike on the silent one, some don't. I think I'll play it by ear and see what models are vulnerable to attack each turn. Silent one is definitely high on my list of things to kill if I can do so without losing 10+ stones of models in exchange, but that sounds unlikely 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagrit Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 When are you going to play? It would be interestiong to see the result. Plaag is nice player and good opponent, don't be fooled by his maner of talking on forum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Sagrit said: When are you going to play? It would be interestiong to see the result. Plaag is nice player and good opponent, don't be fooled by his maner of talking on forum Sunday the 27th Someone else is playing him this weekend with Von Schtook. Let us know how it goes, @Kharnage! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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