Redchapel in keyword?

[Maniacal_cackle]

I just managed to snag a Seamus Avatar (counts as Emissary), so naturally that solidified Redchapel as my next crew. Although unfortunately none of my shops had access to Mourners to sell me.

Whenever I start a new crew, I always try to play it in keyword as much as possible to get a real feel for the limitations of the crew. I know eventually I'll likely end up being primarily OOK&V, but for my first several games I'll be going keyword.

So, what are your tips and tricks for playing Redchapel in keyword (+ Emissary, - mourners)? Any cool combos you've discovered? Any particular lists you find work well? Abusing scarlet temptation seems like the most obvious way to capitalise on the crew, but it's tricky as we don't have access to many good willpower attacks from what I see (like Reva's pyre burst, spirit barrage, etc). Although Belle's melee attack is WP - is that our best bet?

How about the lure/beckoning call engine? It seems pretty inefficient to use these actions, but I guess if you're getting Pounce out of it is actually pretty efficient?

So yeah, a bit of guidance to get me rolling on my first few games would be very much appreciated.

[Graf]

Our local Seamus player hates playing him fully in keyword 😅. I think a single Belle can help you out in GG1, since both Ley Lines and Symbols require to be close to a strat marker. also if you can discern which model has Claim Jump, etc. But I can't see more than one, because you need to assume to cheat for it and hand cards have high value for Seamus.

Scarlet Temptation is a trap imho, at least as a planned strategy. It's nice when it happens, but way to much work for not enough benefit. Bête's Wp attack also is to situational to force it. Dead Dandies and Dead Doxies are solid models on their own though. With GST Doxies become really hard to kill, but I guess you already knew that. As far as I can see, there is no "totally secret tec" to Redchapel. If you can't find a good reason to include model X on its own value, don't do it. Even a Mourner might be possible, if you absolutly need the corpse or their aura to protect Seamus from melee beaters with Ruthless. That's never part of a core build though, always an answer to your specific opponent.

I think that's the most important reason why Seamus is good in experienced hands. The crew does not have many "must have" models, but you can tailor a lot for a specific match-up. For that you need the experience to anticipate your opponent's list and pool choices and pick the correct counters.

[Trample]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 

How about the lure/beckoning call engine? It seems pretty inefficient to use these actions, but I guess if you're getting Pounce out of it is actually pretty efficient?

Pounce is great, but in that kind of game Seamus' Why Hello Love ability is what really shines. Doxies, Belles, and Sybelle all have movement tricks that can trigger a Seamus attack and remember that Redchapel Killer isn't just for the gun. It seems that way because of the ignore friendly fire bit, but it works in melee as well. I would focus on a plan centered on those abilities with a Redchapel only crew. The Scarlet Temptation does come into play with the Belle's lure in close quarters or things like take by the hand on the Doxies. 

A crew like that is great is something like Evidence or Enemies if you have a couple of schemes where you can make sure you're going to be in a scrum. There are some who can really out bubble you though, so it's a more difficult approach than a Seamus crew with a lot of independent models. 

Sybelle isn't great, but I do think she gets a bad rap. She certainly is no Dead Rider, but using these tactics she can make her points through handing out focused, a couple of different ways to move people around, and Undivided Attention. That last one, in a scrum like this, can be a massive ability if she goes early in the turn and has decent sight lines.  

[Maniacal_cackle]

Thanks for the tips!

What about Seamus' bonus? What are the tips there? I know you can double cannon, but also seems good to ignore italics on charge, interact, etc?

[Graf]

Tabletop Talk has an deep dive episode on Seamus (November 2019), where they explain Seamus' option to switch between killy and schemy mode. tldr: Yes, it is very important for him.

[StealthGeekMiniatures]

If you are staying in KW and only having the Emissary you are limiting yourself but it can be done

Seamus with whisper

CC killer

Emissary

2x dead doxy with GST

1x Dead Dandy

1x Rotten Belle

Bete noir

You can drop the upgades and a belle if you want Madame sybelle but I personally feel this is better. 

Use a Doxies to push things up the board(Like Bete). Dandie is your scheme runner. The belle is just there to lure and annoy opponents.

Depending on schemes I Generally get the emissary to the centre of the board to start block using his bonus action and to give Seamus corpse markers with zombies. Seamus jumps around can get scheme and shoot people. If he gets into trouble the just get him out of there with CC killer.

Future models I would look at are: Archie(even post nerf), Manos, a gravedigger and dead rider. 

I'm not a fan of bete noir or the belles.  I think the Belles do have their place but i never take more than one. I find Bete Noir too slow and just never seem to find what to do with her. I'd rather take Archie or Manos for the extra 2 stones. 

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

@StealthGeekMiniatures interesting!

I own all those models so will be trying them out eventually. Is Archie really still good OOK? How often have you got a mask for him to leap? Or do you find the leap unnecessary?

[Thatguy]

I think he's still pretty good. I use him with Nico though, where not being able to focus is often countered by Nico's aura. 

[Wyamphri]

Honestly, love his keyword but I usually run them based on the match. They can be brutal but requires alot of knowledge I think, and some versatile and OoK picks I think. 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 minutes ago, Wyamphri said:

Honestly, love his keyword but I usually run them based on the match. They can be brutal but requires alot of knowledge I think, and some versatile and OoK picks I think. 

 

Any particular highlights? Or models that work well together/you often take as a pair?

[Wyamphri]

I really do like a doxie or two with GST. It's just such a pain for your opponent to kill. Dandies can be good as a cheap significant model, that can produce corpses/ remove scheme markers, and sometimes a belle can be nice. I always take emissary with him for sure though. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

22 minutes ago, Wyamphri said:

 I always take emissary with him for sure though. 

My seamus avatar order fell through, so no emissary for me for a few more weeks xD

[Wyamphri]

That suuuuuucks, emissary is pretty much an auto include for me. You can still play without one, but you'll notice the difference

[Maniacal_cackle]

It's a bit off topic, but does anyone have suggestions for mindless zombies proxies/conversions? It feels pretty bad to buy two boxes (Carrion emissary + residents of rotenberg, which isn't even out yet) just to play one model.

[MrPieChee]

I'm sure you could pick up a sprue of 5 zombies from eBay - I've probably got 100+ zombies from kings of war/ The 9th Age, so no chance I'm dropping £35 for five more! (Although Asura does seem tempting, but a 2e box might appear for her).

[Speedguyjp]

I love playing Seamus. I think his keyword isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

My standard Seamus list is:

Seamus/Whisper, CCK, 2x Dead Doxies with GST, Carrion Emissary, Nurse

Nurse is the only OOK model I tend to hire). bottle of painkillers is great with great triggers and tools for the job is awesome too. Seamus with an extra focus or shielded opens a lot of doors.  With GST the Doxies are quite difficult to kill and the movement tricks can be used offensively or defensively.

That gives me 15 stones to play with and I tend to vary based on the strat and scheme pool. Dead rider or Grave Golem if it's more killy, or a Rotten Belle or Dandy (or both) if it's more schemey. I do feel both of those are better at denying your opponent's schemes (lures, scheme marker removal) than getting yours, but for 4 or 5 stones you can't have everything...

Depending on the pool I can flex down to one Doxy with GST which frees up good stones 

[StealthGeekMiniatures]

On 9/9/2020 at 2:49 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

@StealthGeekMiniatures interesting!

I own all those models so will be trying them out eventually. Is Archie really still good OOK? How often have you got a mask for him to leap? Or do you find the leap unnecessary?

I still find him great, I know hes not as good as he was but still a great model for the cost. I mean really for the mask is only a 4+ mask so it's not really hard to get, I end up having one if I need it most turns.

Unlucky with the avatar. I have one for my crew. Have you seen the one on ebay for £25?

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, StealthGeekMiniatures said:

Unlucky with the avatar. I have one for my crew. Have you seen the one on ebay for £25?

Yeah, although shipping to NZ is going to cost a pretty penny as well. I am the one who bid it up to 30GBP (after my other one told me they didn't actually have the model I bought) I'll be keeping an eye on it though and weighing up how high I can go on it.

1 hour ago, StealthGeekMiniatures said:

I still find him great, I know hes not as good as he was but still a great model for the cost. I mean really for the mask is only a 4+ mask so it's not really hard to get, I end up having one if I need it most turns.

Makes sense!

[Cranky Old Man]

I think that Seamus is still very strong and his keyword isn’t as bad as people say. The belles are still good models because a lure is always great. The doxies are great especially with gst. Carrion emissary is great as a setup for Seamus cause for celebration but I think by taking him with Seamus you are telegraphing this tactic. I am trying to develop the slasher style Seamus which exploits his “Why hello love” ability. Using lures and pushes if you can get an enemy into his range you can get multiple attacks with loads of bonuses. Kind of push and pull them into him. I’m getting a little bit sick of the whole competitive/ non-competitive things and think I’m just going to play crews I enjoy. As long as they have a 50% chance of a win, I’m happy. 
Nothing wrong with the competitive angle but in all honesty if I want to be just winning games 95% of the time I’ll play the same lists over and over and it will get boring. 
Malifaux gets stale for me if it’s just a min max , what’s the killer combo type thing. I’ll devote tome to being as competitive as I can and then to refresh I take on a new crew or “underpowered” crew and have a crack.

If you run a master believed to be underpowered it’s win win isn’t it? You lose, it’s expected but if you win then you get to crow about it. 😁

[Sagrit]

Seamus with Belles and idead around expolits "Why hello love" is really good. I'm working on it as well right now. Had couple of games and it performs fantasticly fun. Not too powerfull because it's easy to conter, but still very fun. I need about 4-5 games more and maybe will wright some thoughts.

[Saduhem]

3 hours ago, Cranky Old Man said:

I think that Seamus is still very strong and his keyword isn’t as bad as people say. The belles are still good models because a lure is always great. The doxies are great especially with gst. Carrion emissary is great as a setup for Seamus cause for celebration but I think by taking him with Seamus you are telegraphing this tactic. I am trying to develop the slasher style Seamus which exploits his “Why hello love” ability. Using lures and pushes if you can get an enemy into his range you can get multiple attacks with loads of bonuses. Kind of push and pull them into him. I’m getting a little bit sick of the whole competitive/ non-competitive things and think I’m just going to play crews I enjoy. As long as they have a 50% chance of a win, I’m happy. 
Nothing wrong with the competitive angle but in all honesty if I want to be just winning games 95% of the time I’ll play the same lists over and over and it will get boring. 
Malifaux gets stale for me if it’s just a min max , what’s the killer combo type thing. I’ll devote tome to being as competitive as I can and then to refresh I take on a new crew or “underpowered” crew and have a crack.

If you run a master believed to be underpowered it’s win win isn’t it? You lose, it’s expected but if you win then you get to crow about it. 😁

Agreed on so many points. 

Redchapel is definitely not as terrible as people say. It's just the people that say it are very vocal. Lures are crazy good in GG1. A single lure from a belle can deny Claim Jump, Breakthrough, Corrupted Leylines, or Hidden Martyrs. 
In one of my recent-ish games I had the Rider carry a Belle forward, who lured Benny (The Lodestone Carrier) past a chokepoint, and had the Emissary put a wall behind him. After that, Lenny was just kept in Sybelle's company behind a corner, who then passed her off to a Belle, never a single point of damage dealt to him, but that denied my opponent all strategy points. Not killing is extremely powerful in Corrupted Leylines. Sybelle also generated a ton of Focused and Pounces that game. So much for being useless. I didn't really need the rider or the Emissary either. I could have just have had the models lure each other up. The Belles are really tough for their cost, and disguised is amazing.

Sure, if you're talking about playing top table in the most competitive meta possible, maybe you're not going to bring home first place by playing nothing but Redchapel. But if that's what we're talking about, then you really only get to pick between 4-6 choices. Anything compared to a min-maxed Colette/Dashel/Sandeep/Hoffman/Shenlong crew is not going to look "competitive".

There are sooo many ways of playing Malifaux and one of the most fun parts of it is the experimentation.

[Morgan Vening]

On 9/21/2020 at 6:24 PM, Saduhem said:

In one of my recent-ish games I had the Rider carry a Belle forward

I think this is part of the issue. In both previous versions, you wouldn't need the Rider, as Lure was an 18" range, so you could drag models from well past the threat range of their compatriots. With Range 12, you've got to move up, and in doing so, it's not that hard for at least some models to have a 12" threat range with a Walk and a Charge, and some other factor (2" melee, some minor movement trick, etc).

Also, Stat 7-8 made it a more likely success rate that they no longer have unless they're already in range of a Belle (Scarlet Temptation).

Not saying that they need to go back to that. But there's always going to be a residual "They're crap because they don't do what they used to do". It'd be different I think if they got something to make them useful in some other way (Undress or an equivalent now being an unsuited Lure), but they're the same model they've always been, just worse at it.