Bombs in yer Belly, Execute, and Trigger order

[regleant]

I think we played this correctly but the result was so mind-blowing, I wanted to be sure. The situation is:

• Mechanized Porkchop has 2 boxes left with Bombs in yer Belly
• Misaki attacks Porkchop hitting Severe damage and Execute Trigger

How we think it plays:

1. Porkchop takes 5 damage (-2 for Armor)
2. Blast damage template is placed, dealing 4 to Misaki
3. Porkchop dies, triggering the Demise +3 ability
4. Misaki takes 3 damage
5. Execute trigger fizzles, since there's no longer a target in play.

But that results in Misaki taking 7 damage, which seems a bit powerful. Also, we wanted to confirm that the Execute trigger does fizzle.

Thanks!

[touchdown]

I believe that is correct. In this case, Misaki would be well advised to cheat in a weak, leave the Porkchop alive after damage and let the Execute trigger happen since that ignores Demise abilites

[Mycellanious]

4 hours ago, touchdown said:

I believe that is correct. In this case, Misaki would be well advised to cheat in a weak, leave the Porkchop alive after damage and let the Execute trigger happen since that ignores Demise abilites

Assume the opponent has no cards or stones

[touchdown]

8 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Assume the opponent has no cards or stones

or that the opponent wants to spend resources keeping a model with 1 wound alive. Really I would have tried not to attack the Bombs in Yer Belly model in the first place. unless taking 7 damage was worth it

[Ogid]

6 hours ago, regleant said:

But that results in Misaki taking 7 damage, which seems a bit powerful. Also, we wanted to confirm that the Execute trigger does fizzle.

Both right. If a trigger declares a target and that target is no longer in play, the trigger doesn't happen (it's in trigger timing, pg12).

About Misaki taking 7 damage... that upgrade is very good versus mele beaters. But as she has range 2, she could take only 3 damage from the demise because 2'' is slightly more than 50mm (she may attack from a point where that  won't hit her); especially handy on her that has mobile warrior.

[solkan]

Yeah, the timing on Execute creates a weird sort of trade off if you know how it used to work in the previous edition.  😕

The triggers that were merged to become Execute used to be "After damaging" trigger (a type which no longer exists.  The requirement was roughly that the target suffered more than 0 damage, but the details involved caused timing paradoxes...).  That trigger type got removed, and it got switched to an "After succeeding" instead of a "When resolving" trigger.  Back when it was "After damaging", if the defender had a way of reducing damage to 0 (like using soul stones to prevent damage), then the defender could avoid the trigger.

If Execute were a "When resolving" trigger, you wouldn't have to worry about prematurely killing the target before Execute goes off.  But the authors went with "After succeeding", instead.  

I will say that the timing side effects were brought up during the open beta, and they remained unchanged.  And some of the old developers probably smile a little if someone complains about having to work to avoid killing a model prematurely.  🧖‍♂️