Lucas McCabe (Wastrel Keyword) Discussion

[SEV]

Well at least fixing a long neck is quite easy with a cutter and some putty.

[Maogrim]

That render does look a bit weird, but I'm fairly confident that the actual sculpt will look just perfectly splendid.

Hopefully everyone who wants to play McCabe in Thunders will have an Explorers friend who's not too interested in Wastrel amd willing to share the contents of the box.

[Maniacal_cackle]

My Wild Ones arrive today, so am stoked and preparing in Vassal! Which leads to a question...

How on earth do you manage your hand?

In my ideal turn one, I want...

• 3-4 pass the artifact (card 4+)
• 1-3 artifact creations (card 8+)
• 1-3 ride with me (card 7+)
• 2 secret passage (card 8+)
• 1 Leap (card 7+)
• Creating scrap with Huckster (6+masks)

And I'm sure I'm forgetting other desirable effects. I'm guessing the crew really has to pick and choose based on its hand, and perhaps not be so greedy in crew selection? Currently I only own the Wild Ones box and One Born Every Minute, so I'm pretty much locked into Cherry (Sidir)/Desper/2 Rough Riders/1-2 Huckster.

Is there also more emphasis on drawing from the scrap marker from Pupper rather than having the pupper create an artifact?

[HomelessOne]

If you haven’t already, I recommend giving this a read-

Ten Thunders flavored of course but it has a lot of solid thoughts and tricks for Wastrels in general.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, HomelessOne said:

If you haven’t already, I recommend giving this a read-

Ten Thunders flavored of course but it has a lot of solid thoughts and tricks for Wastrels in general.

Thanks! That helped inform my purchasing decisions (like skipping buying Ruffians), but I probably could do with a refresher now that I know the cards!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Judging from that thread, a major tip is use Luna's scrap to draw cards and don't make an artifact.

Next thing I'll try will probably be:

• Luna makes an artifact
• Some combination of rough riders, desper, and rollins activate near the scrap marker (depending on how much I want to bunch up), using up cards for their TN and drawing cards.
• Rollins activates and throws a Huckster an artifact, starts a chain of Hucksters > Cherry for artifact.
• Ideally have Luna finish their move near the Huckster that is destined for the artifact, so Luna can bounce around the board (ending near Cherry).

I can imagine that this crew doesn't have a static turn one, and has to massively change it up for the pool and enemy. Should be interesting!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Whoaaaa, I just noticed Desper Laraux can use his grappling hook and You're Coming With Me trigger on a friendly model.

So starting 8 inches away, can push them an additional 3 inches, then hop ~11 inches for a total of 14 inches of movement for your crew with one action. Very impressive!

[Whut]

On 12/9/2020 at 7:10 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

How on earth do you manage your hand?

In my ideal turn one, I want...

• 3-4 pass the artifact (card 4+)
• 1-3 artifact creations (card 8+)
• 1-3 ride with me (card 7+)
• 2 secret passage (card 8+)
• 1 Leap (card 7+)
• Creating scrap with Huckster (6+masks)

Two possible ways - creating a scrap marker and leaving it there for all your models to draw cards from as they activate, or taking a Lamplighter for 8 stones to create a Lit Lamp on first turn, giving you a + flip to many of those duels. Unfortunately this is pretty expensive as you already get healing from Rough Riders  and don't create many Terrain markers so the Lamplighter isn't doing much for you.

---

I'm surprised no one has mentioned two great new options that McCabe has available to him:

1 - Daeva for 7+1 Stones. They're minions so they can get Artifacts giving them Fast and most importantly Precise, Mimic lets them copy better Melee attacks than are available to other minions. They're Sz2 so they benefit from Ride with me, eliminating their weakness of being Mv4. They have concealment permanently and give it to allies. Latch On helps all your attacks, and MadeToKill lets them attack a whole bunch more - every time they benefit from "Ride with Me", every time they Mimic Trampling Hooves and hit with it, every time they Mimic an enemy with the Mask Trigger, every time an enemy moves away and fails the Clingy. (Although once per activation)
Things they can Mimic (Note, Stat 5) Include:

1. Luna's Scrap Drop
2. Desper's Expert Thief
3. Sidir's Machine Gun
4. Huckster's  Secret Passage or False Claim
5. Rider's Trampling Hooves
6. Jessie's Archeological Dig
7. Mikhail's Sword and Shockwave

2 - Beebe and Calypso for 12 Stones total. Beebe creates Scrap 4" away using any Tome once per turn, and he draws 2 weak Tomes (usually) when he activates. Calypso is Armor+2, 6 Health, 6 Df, and Beebe resummons it using any of your scrap markers every time it dies, giving McCabe a solid central Tank. Deep Discovery and Reconfigure gives you a use for crappy cards you draw. And they're effectively one model with 2 activations, pseudo-nimble, and a Stat 6 attack that ignores resistance triggers, has effectively 3 min damage, and also pings 1 damage and pushes every model within 3" on Tomes.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Whut said:

Two possible ways - creating a scrap marker and leaving it there for all your models to draw cards from as they activate, or taking a Lamplighter for 8 stones to create a Lit Lamp on first turn, giving you a + flip to many of those duels. Unfortunately this is pretty expensive as you already get healing from Rough Riders  and don't create many Terrain markers so the Lamplighter isn't doing much for you.

---

I'm surprised no one has mentioned two great new options that McCabe has available to him:

1 - Daeva for 7+1 Stones. They're minions so they can get Artifacts giving them Fast and most importantly Precise, Mimic lets them copy better Melee attacks than are available to other minions. They're Sz2 so they benefit from Ride with me, eliminating their weakness of being Mv4. They have concealment permanently and give it to allies. Latch On helps all your attacks, and MadeToKill lets them attack a whole bunch more - every time they benefit from "Ride with Me", every time they Mimic Trampling Hooves and hit with it, every time they Mimic an enemy with the Mask Trigger, every time an enemy moves away and fails the Clingy.
Things they can Mimic (Note, Stat 5) Include:

1. Luna's Scrap Drop or Artifact Creation (and they get the Artifact on a 7)
2. Desper's Expert Thief
3. Sidir's Machine Gun
4. Huckster's  Secret Passage or False Claim
5. Rider's Trampling Hooves
6. Jessie's Archeological Dig
7. Mikhail's Sword and Shockwave

2 - Beebe and Calypso for 12 Stones total. Beebe creates Scrap 4" away using any Tome once per turn, and he draws 2 weak Tomes (usually) when he activates. Calypso is Armor+2, 6 Health, 6 Df, and Beebe resummons it using any of your scrap markers every time it dies, giving McCabe a solid central Tank. Deep Discovery and Reconfigure gives you a use for crappy cards you draw. And they're effectively one model with 2 activations, pseudo-nimble, and a Stat 6 attack that ignores resistance triggers, has effectively 3 min damage, and also pings 1 damage and pushes every model within 3" on Tomes.

Wow, that Daeva tech is nuts. Although I imagine instead of Jessie's dig (which requires a TN), you'd want to use Luna's scrap generation (requires no duel?) But that's a LOT of options for an 8 stone model. There's not that much min-3 stuff to mimic, but the Rough Rider tech is insane (and I wouldn't be surprised if Ivan ends up taking some Rough Riders for that tech plus ride with me in general).

[Whut]

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Wow, that Daeva tech is nuts. Although I imagine instead of Jessie's dig (which requires a TN), you'd want to use Luna's scrap generation (requires no duel?) But that's a LOT of options for an 8 stone model. There's not that much min-3 stuff to mimic, but the Rough Rider tech is insane (and I wouldn't be surprised if Ivan ends up taking some Rough Riders for that tech plus ride with me in general).

Yeeeeeap. Daeva gets Ride With Me'd up, activates with Fast, Mimic Rough Rider, 4 attacks (as long as one of the first 3 hit) at effective Stat 6 thanks to Latch on, 2/3/4 with Precise and Injured +1. For the rest of the turn if you RideWithMe it into base contact with an enemy you get another attack (at this point probably effective Stat 8-9).

---

At the risk of going a little off topic, I'm interested...

Taking a Rough Rider into Ivan is iffy. On the bright side: RideWithMe is amazing, Rifle's built in + flip accounts for concealment everywhere, Daeva can Mimic Hooves and get RideWithMe'd. Sometimes RR can pull out a Heal on a Tome. Pretty quick with Mv6 Unimpeded. Downside: Cost 8 with 7 Wounds, Df5, and no defensive tech is very fragile. The Field Kit heal is awesome, but requires a Tome (7+ Tome if you also need the Ride to succeed), and Ivan's crew comes with healing for Umbra already, but no healing that can affect RR. RR matches Umbra's low WP and will suffer if the opponent takes WP attacks into Ivan intentionally. They don't get Artifacts which is really what makes them happy to get into melee, so they're better staying away and shooting or aiding movement - But DUA already get fantastic ranged damage (granted, only 8-10" but with often double or triple plus flips), and Daeva get summoned next to enemy models - Mimic is only 6" range. Friendly Fire + Concealment kills RR shooting unless they Concentrate, whereas with Operatives they give ++. I don't expect Looted Supplies to activate much. And most importantly, you won't always be summoning Daeva and they won't always want to Trampling Hooves. They might want to Mimic Gibson's Shockwave, Secret Passage, a Spectre's attack, or an enemy to OnYourHeels.

Tl;dr
It's really the Fast+Precise (and to an extent large amounts of Injured + nearly everything targeting Df in Wastrel) that makes both Daeva and Rough Riders seem that good, not the Daeva and Rough Riders alone.
All the individual pieces that Rough Riders can give Ivan in different combinations can be found elsewhere:

• Healing + Move/Push + Concealing Terrain Markers > Lamplighters (+ giving out plusses from Lit Lamps)
• Move/Push + Mv6 Unimpeded > Nocturne (+ giving out Distracted to allies or enemies) or Effigy (+ Healing)
• Mv6 Unimpeded + Scheming + Shooting + Card Draw > Austera and Twigge
• Move as a bonus action + Shooting + Card Draw > Operatives (+ Ungentlemanly Affairs & Arson)
• Place effects to take advantage of Daeva > Gibson (Bonus action, then push/move Daeva into the marker) or Winston Finnigan

[muraki]

1 hour ago, Whut said:

• Luna's Scrap Drop or Artifact Creation (and they get the Artifact on a 7)

Don't think the artifact creation will work as mimic says actions that do not attach upgrades.

[Whut]

I don't think this will make them good enough, but I believe that Cryptologists' Bonus also activates "start of activation" effects from other models - for example healing from Jedza/Meredith, or Shielded+1 from Intrepid Emissary.

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 hours ago, Whut said:

I don't think this will make them good enough, but I believe that Cryptologists' Bonus also activates "start of activation" effects from other models - for example healing from Jedza/Meredith, or Shielded+1 from Intrepid Emissary.

Yup! It would be insane with Molly, but I don't know of any game-breaking effects in ES.

[touchdown]

I think if you take the cryptologist you really want Ancient Technology. You just try to top deck antique timepiece and get a lucky fast (unless you have the mask for the obey).

Sadly there's only one tools for the job model in ES and it doesn't need any double suits (eg critical strike) or have any defensive triggers so nothing to be gained there.

[HomelessOne]

So has there been any play with the new/old McCabe? People seemed excited about Jessie initially, but I've seen opinions of her cool considerably since then. The Daeva looked hilarious on paper, but has it worked out as hoped? Anyone figure out what they wanted to do with the Cryptologist?

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, HomelessOne said:

So has there been any play with the new/old McCabe? People seemed excited about Jessie initially, but I've seen opinions of her cool considerably since then. The Daeva looked hilarious on paper, but has it worked out as hoped? Anyone figure out what they wanted to do with the Cryptologist?

At my current assembling and painting rate, I should have them on the table by the end of the year!

Played against McCabe in a tournament. The Rough Riders with the upgrade to draw when they cheat with focused seemed very good, except I imagine they will just die in competitive play?

Keen to hear other peoples experiences!

[Cedar]

I think McCabe is bit lacking in the faction right now - if you want mobile schemers, you can play Ivan or Anya, if you prefer supporting and giving fast to models, you can do this with Maxine. The only thing McCabe offers is armor ignoring, with saber and Sidir (and Desper, though it's unreliable attack with stat of only 5). Too bad there are no min. 3 damage minions in entire faction, unlike in TT. 

 

PS. Due to my playstyle I rate Wastrel as worst keyword in faction.  

[Maniacal_cackle]

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but...

Doesn't McCabe have the best card draw in the faction? And some of the best mobility and shooting?

McCabe himself is a great target for the precise upgrade, since his melee attack can hit for 2+2.

The fast chains seem super potent as well, assuming we can get the TNs to work xD 

As for what makes us unique... Flush With Cash is stupidly good card draw, and with the rest of the crews card draw you could have gas the entire turn. Definitely going to be something I test a lot, but I think we can pull off things TT McCabe might struggle with?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Oh, and we have Archivist, which is just awesome with the Flush With Cash lines.

[Cedar]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but...

Doesn't McCabe have the best card draw in the faction?

Maxine has better card draw (though she cycles her hand, instead of drawing cards, though she has few ways of draws - Beebe, Kia, Maxine herself). I rarerly had less than 4 cards by end of the turn with her. Jedza can draw cards with Lost Knowledge and cycle them with Austera. Ivan draws cards with Gibson and Operatives. Nexus can draw a lot of cards. McCabe draw is really conditional (starting activation within 1" of Corpse or Scrap), and he needs those Scrap Markers for handling out relics.

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 

And some of the best mobility and shooting?

mobility - I agree, he is really mobile. Shooting - not quite, he can't compete with with Frontier or Apex. Net gun is good, but outside of it, the only good shooting models are Sidir (who has no defensive tech except stones AND he has 4 Mv) and Rough Riders (who are equally amazing in Frontier).

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

McCabe himself is a great target for the precise upgrade, since his melee attack can hit for 2+2.

I agree, that's something to look out for. By himself he is solid, just his keyword is lacking and ES doesn't offer as many good OOK options for him as TT does - you have Vernon, Archivist and Porter basically.

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The fast chains seem super potent as well, assuming we can get the TNs to work xD 

Maxine handles fast easier than him - she can give fast to 4 different models in her activation, without needing to have scrap markers first place. Also, she can give a fast to model who ended it's activation, so it'll start next one with 3 actions.

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

As for what makes us unique... Flush With Cash is stupidly good card draw, and with the rest of the crews card draw you could have gas the entire turn. Definitely going to be something I test a lot, but I think we can pull off things TT McCabe might struggle with?

I try to take Flush on one minion each game, as you can refill your hand after cheating initiative flip. Bribery as defensive tech is okay, although Trained Ninja offers much more to minions than Flush/Agenda/Treasure Map. 

 

Botanists would be good for him IF they had better damage track than 1/2/3. Oh well, you cant expect everything from 7 DF, 6 WP, 6 MV unimpeded, 6 stones minion... 

[Whut]

14 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh, and we have Archivist, which is just awesome with the Flush With Cash lines.

Can you explain what you mean by FWC lines?

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Cedar said:

 

Botanists would be good for him IF they had better damage track than 1/2/3. Oh well, you cant expect everything from 7 DF, 6 WP, 6 MV unimpeded, 6 stones minion... 

All great points!

I really want to try Botanist with him on leylines, he seems pretty solid at that? Rough Riders, McCabe himself, and Botanists are all great carriers.

I guess it could be overkill xD

Just now, Whut said:

Can you explain what you mean by FWC lines?

Oh, so for example what I do with Basse is end turn one in position to do some serious damage, then I soulstone turn 2 (if necessary), cheat initiative, then use Flush With Cash to draw another 4.

So I've now had 12 cards to get my hand full of severes (minus one severe for initiative), and can blow something up before the opponent can react.

It seems even better with McCabe as he has stronger positioning, and can spend the rest of the turn re-drawing to get my hand full again. Although I suppose Basse can draw solid cards more reliably.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Turn three might be the magic number for McCabe and FWC, not sure. You don't want your opponent to start with a few high cards from the previous turn.

Looking forward to testing it, anyway!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Also has anyone tried Bellhop Porter with the crew?

It can be carted around with Rough Riders, shoot scrap out of enemies, swapsies allies out of combat, and sometimes hand out shielded.

Virtually every bit of the card seems helpful!

[Whut]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh, so for example what I do with Basse is end turn one in position to do some serious damage, then I soulstone turn 2 (if necessary), cheat initiative, then use Flush With Cash to draw another 4.

So I've now had 12 cards to get my hand full of severes (minus one severe for initiative), and can blow something up before the opponent can react.

It seems even better with McCabe as he has stronger positioning, and can spend the rest of the turn re-drawing to get my hand full again. Although I suppose Basse can draw solid cards more reliably.

I see. However, I'd consider FWC as a replacement for SS for cards, not as an addition to. Sure, you use one high card for Initiative but out of 8 cards drawn, the 3rd-5th worst have to be 3 weak cards to make this ideal.
Most crews have plenty of simple duels requiring 6's and 7's (if not lower) and I expect to fail at least a couple of those each turn so I'd be hesitant to toss midrange cards away, especially in a crew with already good card draw which can replace used cards.

Then again, I'm HEAVILY a control/attrition player so I just have a sickly reaction to wasting any potential value for the sake of aggression.