Returning player from M2E - what do I need to know to get going with Outcasts?

[apes-ma]

As per the title, I haven't played since M2E. Back then I played a lot of Parker and Von Schill with a smattering of Jack Daw and the Viks. Over the COVID-19 lockdown I picked up the new M3E Leveticus box, some necropunks and Marlena Webster (a lovely model, but getting it on the base was a PITA, and WTH is with those ribbons?!) which I have been painting up, and I have finished off my prospectors and midnight stalker. I also got the app, and the M3E outcasts card pack. So that means now I have most of the faction painted up and ready to play. The exceptions are hamelin (I never fancied the rat engine kind of stuff so don't have any of the models from his box, benny or the winged plagues) and tara and karina (the theme of the crew seemed pretty hard to get going in M2E, and the tara model is so spindly and fragile that I could never get up the motivation to get it done).

Now that it is a bit easier to meet up and get some games in (safely, or course!) I thought I'd get back into it.

My question is basically this - what has changed and what is the same for the outcasts? I have read over the cards and the current pool of schemes, but as always with these sorts of things it's not easy to see what works and what doesn't work in the translation from cards to tabletop.

What are we good at and bad at? What models are worth looking at for out of keyword takes? Are any of our masters very bad these days? Is Jack Daw really a ressur master now, or does he work in outcasts? The Viks seem like they are a little bland now - it seems like they are just a mobile, pointy crew?

Given how different M3E is (i.e. many fewer 7 stats, smaller engagement ranges, less min-3 attacks) I am struggling to understand the role of some models. e.g. Ashes and Dust, from the card at least, seems like it's really just the king of scheme runners now with the odd chance to smash in for damage if you happen to have a good crow. Have the roles of some of our iconic models changed? Or is it more or less the same?

I am mostly interested in Leveticus and Parker - what are some good "well rounded" lists for these masters that would work to get a feel for M3E?

Finally at the end of M2E I felt like I was pretty much forced to pack my lists with cheap models (which it never felt like we had GREAT options for in Outcasts) just to keep up with all the activation control that was going around. It was kind of a shame, since the faction had (has?) so many good mid-high cost models that I always felt like I wanted to play a more "elite" game, but activation control was just so so strong that it never worked out. Do pass tokens actually fix that? Or is there still the incentive to pack out the list with some chaff to actually do something with activationS? It seems like although pass tokens let you save your big activationS for later in the turn, it still gives your opponent the chance to get in quite a lot of unchallenged actions.

Apologies for so many questions! It just feels to me that the game is pretty different now and I wanted to get a bit of advice from the community so I don't spend a bunch of time having to re-learn the game! I think I'll realistically only be able to get a couple of games in per month at the moment, so I'd like to try and hit the ground running!

 

[touchdown]

That is a lot of questions lol! I'll answer what I can.

What is outcasts good at? Honestly just about everything. We're considered one of the stronger factions right now, although I don't think the strongest. There's good options for every strategy and scheme pool. I think only Hamelin and Tara are considered outright bad. Tara got a nerf in the errata and the new stategies are not friendly to her.

What are Outcasts bad at? Terrifying crews. There's only 3 ruthless models in the faction and neither Taelor or Freikorpmann are considered very good. It's a painful tax to bring them in. Hans is our only access to stunned. So we can't deal with trigger reliant crews as well as other factions. Also our upgrades suck. Wanted Criminal in particular is viable on maybe 3 models, all Bandits.

I don't play Daw but I think he works fine in Outcasts. Our versatile models seem good for him. Zipp looks like the only master who doesn't get anything for playing Outcasts to me.

The Viks might be bland, but I'm not sure they were that interesting in m2e tbf. You can still do the slingshot alpha strike if you want. However, they're not the murder machine they were anymore. You've got to pick your attacks much more judiciously. They're more like bullies in this edition, making weaker models sorry they ever got close. I like how the Viks themselves works but the mercenary keyword leaves a lot to be desired.

As for pass tokens, the general belief is they made low ss models (<5) almost unplayable because the new way to get activation control is just take out a single unactivated model. Elite lists seem to be what top players are using.

[S4lt]

Welcome back!

Firstly I would say Outcasts are probably the best internally balanced faction. All of our masters can compete in at least some strat/scheme pool combo. I think we sit in the middle of the pack from a competitive stand point. Obviously trailing TT. Probably in the mix with Ressers, Arcanist and Bayou.

What you'll find coming back is that actually you will likely vary your master selection more than 3E and then tailor your lists a little more on top of that. 

Teching in stuff from versatile or out of keyword is also quite important as you will need specific models on occasion to run a particular scheme or counter an enemy key word. All of that will come with experience as you try games.

Levi is a good start point as he is probably our strongest master, he is one of the best masters in the game for Public Enemies and then a solid generalist in the other strats. You need to watch out for TT and Ressers with him though due to their anti demise models.

Parker is another solid generalist so you've picked 2 strong masters to start with.

As I mentioned earlier, I would hesitate to give you lists as 3E requires far more flexibility than 2E ever did.

Jack Daw is probably slightly better in Ressers but still good in Outcasts. Pride is a particularly dirty pick with him.

I would argue that the Viks have far more depth now. They require more finesse and the rest of their crew is actually relevant, rather than just there to buff their alpha strike.

With regards to pass tokens, it definitely has led to a more elite list based meta, but that also has to do with GG1. GG0 was a lot more about mobility and board control.

Our weaknesses as mentioned are definitely terrifying, we have few ruthless models (mostly bad), quite a few low WP based crews. We also struggle against conditions. Despite a recent buff to Johan. Against condition based crews you just mostly have to power through and either ignore them or kill enough stuff before you succumb to the conditions.

I think that's most points answered! 

 

[apes-ma]

On 8/31/2020 at 4:17 PM, touchdown said:

As for pass tokens, the general belief is they made low ss models (<5) almost unplayable because the new way to get activation control is just take out a single unactivated model. Elite lists seem to be what top players are using.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 9:22 AM, S4lt said:

With regards to pass tokens, it definitely has led to a more elite list based meta, but that also has to do with GG1. GG0 was a lot more about mobility and board control.

Oh that's very cool - that's kind of how I want to play Malifaux I think! I never really liked chaff activations - it always felt kind of boring for a model to basically do nothing, and it was never as rewarding to paint up a nice piece when all it every does is burn an activation.

 

On 8/31/2020 at 4:17 PM, touchdown said:

What is outcasts good at? Honestly just about everything. We're considered one of the stronger factions right now, although I don't think the strongest. There's good options for every strategy and scheme pool. I think only Hamelin and Tara are considered outright bad. Tara got a nerf in the errata and the new stategies are not friendly to her.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 9:22 AM, S4lt said:

Levi is a good start point as he is probably our strongest master, he is one of the best masters in the game for Public Enemies and then a solid generalist in the other strats. You need to watch out for TT and Ressers with him though due to their anti demise models.

Parker is another solid generalist so you've picked 2 strong masters to start with.

Ok good to know! I am looking forward to playing with the new sculpt and the scavengers - they seem quite fun. I only ever played Leve after the nerf in M2E and he never really clicked for me - it seems like there is a bit more support for an attrition-ish playstyle in his keyword now. Very excited to crack him out one day!

And good old Parker - he's always been fun, glad that's not changed!

On 9/1/2020 at 9:22 AM, S4lt said:

What you'll find coming back is that actually you will likely vary your master selection more than 3E and then tailor your lists a little more on top of that. 

That's good to hear - that's what drew me into Malifaux in the first place, but towards the end I found I basically just played the same crew more or less every time...

 

On 9/1/2020 at 9:22 AM, S4lt said:

I would argue that the Viks have far more depth now. They require more finesse and the rest of their crew is actually relevant, rather than just there to buff their alpha strike.

Also good to read! It sounds like the game is in a pretty good spot with third edition, and I can't wait to get a few games in! Thanks for your help and your responses folks!