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I'm finding myself using the Dreadnought with Massive Furnace and double Mounted Gunners Assets, and getting the Chemical Fogger Prototype on it at either start of game or ASAP. My issue is that this makes it an agile and excessively efficient murder machine to the detriment of my opponents' enjoyment of the game.

Firstly, the Chemical Fogger does not require a card to be discarded in order to be used like most other Prototype Assets; it's Versatile, hits with a stat of 6, reverts the target from Glory and then potentially also drops Hazardous terrain that the Dreadnought itself is immune to. When you compare it to other projectile weapon non-Titan Prototypes, they tend to have low stats (Flare Gun, Rocket Launcher) or range (Discus Grenades), but all require a discard. I don't understand why the Chemical Fogger gets a free pass in this regard and still hits well. Since it is the only method in my Abyssinian model collection to revert other units from Glory, I tend to take it whenever the Dreadnought hits the table.

Crushing Legs lets you make a non-cheatable Strength 2 damage flip against a single fireteam that you moved over that move. This in itself is not an issue, except for the potential number of them you can get. I will cover this later.

Then there's the damage potential from the rest of the armaments. Glory or not, it has a Machine Gun that can give the potential to move. When in Glory, it gains a melee attack that can also let you move. I feel that these are fine in and of themselves. The Mounted Gunners then net you additional shots. This volume of fire greatly contributes to attaining Glory and hitting Radio In Enemy Movements triggers to draw cards. Not really broken, you are paying for offensive output over the other Asset options available that provide more support for your Company.

The Flamethrower is where it all gets silly. It's Versatile and has a built-in trigger to attack a different target, and can again potentially move the model on both attacks. More chances for Glory and card draw.

 

What I often then see is (with some change in order depending on circumstances):

- if you have Advanced or Rushed, you are likely trampling something

- an attack with either the main gun or a leg

- a potential trample from this attack

- the Dreadnought Pulls My Finger with the fogger

- a mounted gunner shot

- another mounted gunner shot

- a flamethrower shot

- a potential trample from this attack

- another flamethrower shot

- a potential trample from this attack

 

Finally, if you are ever given the opportunity to take an action outside of its Activation, you can take ALL of the Versatile actions again. Gloried Crow Runners, Prince Unathi, Overclocked, Kassa... I'm sure there's more.

There isn't much that this Dreadnought fears. When an opponent ran some ECB Black Ops to damage it before anyone else had activated (and they are very well geared to do so) they flipped all 3 of its Assets and buggered off through a portal. I needed to take the Focussed Effort order, but with Thrace nearby and Medic!, quickly undid all that work. They couldn't then come back next turn without sticking around to face some serious reprisals. I will say that I will try to keep it the F away from Horotmatangi, taking whatever shots I can at it instead. But I am at a loss as to how best to fight against this loadout, other than volume of attacks.

Another part of the issue is in relation to the rules for Titans. The only way to prevent it from firing all of its guns is to engage it with a Titan, or to be hidden. But the Dreadnought is not slow (especially when in Glory), and with the fact it can still shoot all of its Versatile guns after Rushing you can't really hide, except to be out of range. I'll pretty happily spend a Tactics token to walk it out of Titan engagement, but I won't often need to if the cards have been kind and I can just get a Nimble trigger to move away.

Other loadouts just seem lacklustre by comparison, so I am making myself use them to see some hidden worth.

So I guess I feel that as well as a tweak to how much Abyssinia gets to draw cards, I think this loadout needs some attention to tone it down. I honestly played the Chemical Fogger for the first few games as requiring a card discard in order to fire, and don't think it takes anything away to do so. Losing Versatile on the Flamethrower would also help. Interested to see if this is all just me, if people have similar experiences and if there are any other Asset loadouts for the Dreadnought that folks think are worth taking.

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On 8/23/2020 at 7:57 AM, ArcticPangolin said:

Finally, if you are ever given the opportunity to take an action outside of its Activation, you can take ALL of the Versatile actions again. Gloried Crow Runners, Prince Unathi, Overclocked, Kassa... I'm sure there's more.

Please don't do this to you or your opponent. I know the rules are not clear here, but as I interpret it, you can take Versatile actions in addition to the standard action as part of an order. If you take an action outside of activation (with Field Test or similar means), you take exactly one action (plus an additional action, if the first one triggers it). This can be a versatile action, but it does not allow you to do all versatile actions again.

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1 hour ago, MuMantai said:

Please don't do this to you or your opponent. I know the rules are not clear here, but as I interpret it, you can take Versatile actions in addition to the standard action as part of an order. If you take an action outside of activation (with Field Test or similar means), you take exactly one action (plus an additional action, if the first one triggers it). This can be a versatile action, but it does not allow you to do all versatile actions again.

Versatile: Actions on this card may only be taken once during a unit’s Activation. A Fireteam in this unit may take an Action listed on this card in addition to any other Actions it takes.

 

Actions are things that a fireteam in a unit can do, but there is no restriction on when they can be taken, just that the fireteam is given permission to perform an Action. For example, each different Order allows a fireteam to take an Action at a given point or points during the Order.

For Versatile it does not stipulate that these Actions are only to be taken during this fireteam's Activation, only that they can be taken once during a unit's Activation. Hence, ANY Activation.

As an example, if you take the Lead The Way Action with a Gloried Crow Runners fireteam and declare the Go Go Go! trigger, you can move the targeted fireteam who can then take an Action. As worded, Versatile would let you take all Versatile Actions available to that fireteam afterwards as well. If the Crow Runners targeted the same fireteam again with Lead The Way and hit the trigger, the targeted fireteam could take an Action, but could only take any Versatile Actions that it had not already taken during the Crow Runners activation, as per the Versatile wording.

There is the section in Actions on page 23 of the rules that has the following callout box:

 

ADDITIONAL ACTIONS
Some Actions (or their Triggers) are capable of generating additional Actions.

If a Fireteam is unable to take an additional Action (perhaps because there are no targets within range), the additional Action is ignored.

As a further restriction, additional Actions cannot create additional Actions of their own. If they would do so, any subsequent additional Actions are ignored.

 

The Actions granted by Versatile are not created by the Action taken, Versatile states that fireteams in the unit may take the Versatile Action in addition to any other Actions they take. There are triggers that allow you to take another Action that would have been generated by that Action (such as the Flamethrower's built-in Burn It All trigger), but that is not the case with Versatile.

If this has been clarified anywhere or I'm missing something please let me know!

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As I said, the wording is not clear here. I agree that it can be read that way, unfortunately. But, your first point was that the Dreadnought seems too powerful. And if you can take essentially a whole activation not only if it activates, but also when Kassa activates, and when Unathi activates, and then again when the Crow Runners activate, yes, that seems a bit too powerful.

In my opinion, actions that make another unit take an action are meant as increased flexibility, not as power multilpier, making multiple actions at the cost of one. Coincidentally, titans are the best target for that, as they have the most versatile actions to compound that.

Again, yes, the rules allow your interpretation, and unfortunately we will probably not get an FAQ for that any time soon, but I wouldn't play it that way, and if you were my opponent and argued along those lines, you would have one less opponent very quickly.

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On 8/24/2020 at 8:19 PM, MuMantai said:

As I said, the wording is not clear here. I agree that it can be read that way, unfortunately. But, your first point was that the Dreadnought seems too powerful. And if you can take essentially a whole activation not only if it activates, but also when Kassa activates, and when Unathi activates, and then again when the Crow Runners activate, yes, that seems a bit too powerful.

In my opinion, actions that make another unit take an action are meant as increased flexibility, not as power multilpier, making multiple actions at the cost of one. Coincidentally, titans are the best target for that, as they have the most versatile actions to compound that.

Again, yes, the rules allow your interpretation, and unfortunately we will probably not get an FAQ for that any time soon, but I wouldn't play it that way, and if you were my opponent and argued along those lines, you would have one less opponent very quickly.

I'll probably be a gentleman and play it that way, I would just really like the rules cleaned up to prevent it. With my Company selection though it tends not to come up.

But I feel that even without the extra Actions out of activation, you still get too much bang during the Dreadnought's activation. Have you played this loadout and experienced anything similar?

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I have not played him as a brawler yet, no. I usually play the Dreadnought as a gun platform, with either the mortar and one gunner, or two gunners, and one of the two processor assets, of which I like the anthem more. I was impressed with him, but it did not feel overpowered that way.

I don't know when I will get the chance to test your loadout, I haven't played TOS in ages, as we are just now ramping up Malifaux a bit more again.

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