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Anyone try a Seamus/Mourner list like this?


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Anyone try a Seamus/Mourner list like this?

  • Seamus - The Whisper
    • Copycat Killer
  • Carrion Emissary
  • Yin, The Penangalan
  • Bete Noire
  • Mourner - Grave Spirit's Touch
  • Mourner 2 - Grave Spirit's Touch

Everything has terrifying, and there's two six inch bubbles negating ruthless, and 3 one inch bubbles of scarlet temptation. It has a decent amount of scheming potential between Seamus, Yin, and Bete, but I'd not take it into something that requires too much interacting scattered over the board (probably not symbols + spread them out for instance xD).

Also starts with two focus on the whole team from double blasphemous ritual, movement boost for most of the team from emissary, zombies for corpses, and a nice self-bury target for Bete (by attacking the mourners). All the models are pretty tough, so overall you'd want to take it into something pretty kill-y.

Lacks the 'Take By the Hand' of Doxies, but could be worth it against factions/crews with lots of ruthless (like Ten Thunders?) What do you think? It's on my list to test once I can order my next batch of models, but that may be a while.

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I understand the theme, but I struggle to see how this list is going to kill anything (besides Seamus of course). Feed on Grief is nice I guess, but will mostly be doing 2 damage. It'd be great to have a really strong attack vs. WP somewhere in the list to take advantage of the scarlet temp bubbles on your turn as well. 

 

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5 hours ago, Speedguyjp said:

I understand the theme, but I struggle to see how this list is going to kill anything (besides Seamus of course). Feed on Grief is nice I guess, but will mostly be doing 2 damage. It'd be great to have a really strong attack vs. WP somewhere in the list to take advantage of the scarlet temp bubbles on your turn as well. 

 

That makes sense, I did consider swapping Bete for Manos, maybe that'd be worthwhile.

Last season Archie would have slotted right in of course 😜

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I've been thinking a lot recently about the best way to get that double focus on round 1. I think you spend two more points and get:

Dead Dandy

Dead Doxy + GST

Grave Digger

I think it maybe works out to be a better set of models to do something after the first round, although you do have to burn more AP to achieve the same goal (although you are bringing more AP to the table). I do think a crew like that (with Emissary, Rider, and either Yin or Bette) ought to have enough damage output to keep up (considering Speedyguy's comments). The Rider is a beast. I am very interested to hear if you try the mourners and, if so, how they work. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Trample said:

I've been thinking a lot recently about the best way to get that double focus on round 1. I think you spend two more points and get:

Dead Dandy

Dead Doxy + GST

Grave Digger

I think it maybe works out to be a better set of models to do something after the first round, although you do have to burn more AP to achieve the same goal (although you are bringing more AP to the table). I do think a crew like that (with Emissary, Rider, and either Yin or Bette) ought to have enough damage output to keep up (considering Speedyguy's comments). The Rider is a beast. I am very interested to hear if you try the mourners and, if so, how they work. 

 

Whether or not I try them depends on if they're available when I buy models probably xD though people would let me proxy them.

I think that works out to four stones more (20 vs 16), and you don't actually have two focus (gravedigger has to either use bonus to make a second corpse or ritual), so you'd need one more GST. Unless you're using emissary zombie.

I think Mourners are the most efficient for getting the double focus by far, but even something like mourner/dandy/2 GST/mindless zombie would be 18 stones and get you that double focus.

It does make mourners seem much worthier of their cost of six when you realise a corpse turn two is potentially a 2 stone cost.

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43 minutes ago, Cranky Old Man said:

I love the idea, would love to get work out of the mourners. I would go with this

Seamus, the whisper, CCK

Dead Doxy with GST

Emissary

Mourner with GST

Mourner

Manos the Risen

The Doxy is just too good to leave out and with GST becomes a real nightmare!

 

 

Love it! Still 5/7 terrifying models with solid killing power. Between whisper and focus, should have plenty of cards to choose from for the first few turns.

And of course spirit barrage with divine strike trigger when opponent is on a negative flip is BRUTAL.

This is likely a stronger list than what I posted, less all-in on the gimmick. Love it!

One thing to note is you lose 'lead by the hand' first turn, but that is possibly okay since the doxy is great with GST I hear.

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43 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think that works out to four stones more (20 vs 16), and you don't actually have two focus (gravedigger has to either use bonus to make a second corpse or ritual), so you'd need one more GST. Unless you're using emissary zombie.

Dandy (4) + Doxy (6) + GST (2) + Grave Digger (6) = 18.

I think the biggest downside is that the Dandy has to burn a 7 to flip the scheme marker he just created to a corpse marker. Those can be a hot commodity in a Seamus crew. The Mourners don't have any flips required, so the double focus just happens. I think  both options would be worth trying out to see what works better on the table. 

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1 minute ago, Trample said:

Dandy (4) + Doxy (6) + GST (2) + Grave Digger (6) = 18.

I think the biggest downside is that the Dandy has to burn a 7 to flip the scheme marker he just created to a corpse marker. Those can be a hot commodity in a Seamus crew. The Mourners don't have any flips required, so the double focus just happens. I think  both options would be worth trying out to see what works better on the table. 

Ahhh, I read it as double Doxy.

Okay, that's pretty sweet! So tempted to just order my Seamus crew now xD

But kind of hoping shops will have some Black Friday sales (but crews are selling out as well...)

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I've tried that list. It's not very good. 

That variant list suggested I've tried too. I find GST on a Doxy to be better on paper than in practice. If you are taking GST in the same list as Yin is should be on her so she heals back from using her Dark Bargin Ability.

Optimizing for Bete Noire I've found to be counter productive since her biggest problem is spending 8 for a hybrid model that doesn't do a lot. When she pops out of the corpse marker I've found in about 90% plus times either the best corpse to pop out of is too far away for her to really utilize the charge action it gives her, or there is a model so close to the marker she wants to use she doesn't get to charge because she's engaged when she pops up.

 

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@Fetid Strumpet, good to hear some practical experience!

I take it the Mourners just didn't cut it?

As for Bete, I always love her in Reva crews, but can imagine there might not be enough corpses with Seamus. Were all the zombies already taken by Seamus?

One thing to note about zombies is models with 1" engage can't stop the charge, since the 30mm zombie base is larger than 1". So if you place on the far side you should always have the charge.

I guess the scarlet temptation aura isn't very relevant (except for terrifying), whereas it is game-breaking with Reva.

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I wasn't really thinking about the list as a way to do anything except get double focus on Seamus, the Dead Rider, and Emissary (plus whoever else is hanging around). That isn't that you don't want the other models to do something, but they don't have to carry the load for you. I would think that would provide a load of efficiency to the crew, but it it good to hear you've seen it in action and it has been less than stellar. I may very well try it myself soon to see if my experience differs. 

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Scarlet Temptation is pretty much a non issue in the list. It doesn't do much. I mean it's nice but mostly forgettable. 

As for Bete, it's purely a not enough bang for the buck. Look at models like Mr. Graves who at least up to the last time I played was regularly derided as not being good enough in most lists, and he is almost but not quite another order of magnitude more effective than Bete. You are paying a gigantic premium for her supposed survivability. But that survivability only matters if she is repeatedly and reliably able to bring her lower impact abilities to bear. You aren't going to be able to cost efficiently spam zombies every which where with Seamus, so when she pops out of a zombie you really really need to get the charge action to fire with the attack. And usually, I find at least, that doesn't happen very often. Usually the corpse is so far out she maybe can get back in and get 1 attack off, or get reengaged, or the corpse is too far out to be a meaningful target, or the corpse is in strategically important area, but is so full of models there is no way to pop up with a path to charge, or no way to pop up without starting engaged.

I just find she doesn't synergize very well with Red Chapel. 

And yes, Trample, you should absolutely try yourself and make up your own mind. I find some things to be true, but that doesn't mean they will 100% be the same for you. 

Personally I think if you are gonna go the corpse generation route you might fair better with Toshiro. For the same cost as Madam Sybelle he is leaps and bounds better, and has focus for Seamus or another beater built in on Foul Mouthed Motivation. I'd also recommend as a general rule bringing a Nurse. Tools for the Job is an amazing ability, which works very well with Seamus and has all sorts of tricks you can pull with it, and she's another way to get focus on your models. She also combos nicely with the emissary, giving him focus when Seamus can't easily keep popping next to her for her focus, and using bedside manner to protect and reposition the emissary so its harder to lock down his ranged attack.

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So I tried a double focus round 1 last night and it worked pretty well.  It was Standard Symbols with Claim Jump, Assassinate, Leave Your Mark, Hidden Martyrs, and Runic Binding. Against Guild (Lady J). So I had:

  • Seamus - The Whisper + 4 stones
  • Copycat Killer
  • Dead Rider
  • Carrion Emissary
  • Yin, The Penangalan - Grave Spirit's Touch
  • Mourner - Grave Spirit's Touch
  • Dead Dandy 

It worked pretty well having Focus +2 on Seamus, Rider, Dandy and Emissary as well as Focus +1 on Yin to start the game. I used 8 of them through the first three turns. I don't think I used Yin's since she was out collecting symbols. We called it after that and talked through the rest of game since his crew was pretty decimated at that point. I was only up 3-2 at the end of 3 but there wasn't really any chance of him scoring any schemes. It would have likely been 6 or 7 to 3 (maybe 4). 

Anyway, the point is that the focus saturation (which of course is good) seemed to be fairly efficient. The Mourner isn't a very good model itself. I would have rather had a Doxy, but I think it was worth it for the corpse. 

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8 minutes ago, Trample said:

Anyway, the point is that the focus saturation (which of course is good) seemed to be fairly efficient. The Mourner isn't a very good model itself. I would have rather had a Doxy, but I think it was worth it for the corpse. 

It's interesting as focus saturation turn one can be so good in some places, and weaker in others. Glad it paid off for you!

I think the key to using models like Mourners is really making as many lines of text useful as possible. If you're not using that corpse marker, they seem much weaker.

Can't wait to give it a go myself (if I don't order Kirai first).

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2 hours ago, Cranky Old Man said:

@Trample What did your setup look like turn one to get all the focus out? Blasphemous ritual I get. Did the carrion give you the extra corpse marker with his markers?

I believe he gets one from Mourner and one from Dandy going interact to drop scheme > bonus action to convert scheme to corpse.

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That's correct, the second corpse came from the Dandy. He was my second activation (mourner first) and he dropped a scheme then converted it with his bonus. 

It was standard deployment and I had the Rider, Seamus, and Emissary in a line near the middle. Yin was a bit behind and to the left. The mourner was immediately behind the front three. The Dandy was a couple of inches behind the mourner. Copycat was off to the side a bit. The key is having the models with GST (Yin and Mourner in this case) with 3" of the models you want to gain the focus.   

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