English Ivan (Umbra/DUA Keywords) Discussion

[FrostHunter]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:56 PM, Pallas4 said:

!!!

but I don't recognize what Ivan brings up.

He summons more boxes with Malifaux minis to create some counterbalance for Zoraida's puppets.

[HomelessOne]

Haven't been banned yet, so screenshots:

Credit to A Wyrd Place. Haven't seen the Plan upgrade(s) yet.

[admiralvorkraft]

New Ivan looks a lot like what I hoped Lucius could be. Depending on what those plans do... Man this is a cool model.

[Korrok]

[Eclipse]

Hooooly flapping gums, this version of Ivan is amazing.

[Morgan Vening]

5 hours ago, Eclipse said:

Hooooly flapping gums, this version of Ivan is amazing.

Yeah, I wasn't that sold on Ivan. He felt underwhelming compared to OG Ivan.

But the Secret Plans?

A 7SS Summon, an unlimited range Obey (no Hench, gotta have some downside) or a potential triple shockwave3, Df14, 3 damage. 

That can be done twice per game, and not only doesn't take an action, but don't even require an activation.

I think I prefer OG Ivan, but if you think your opponent is going to WP tech against him, taking this one instead is definitely a good call.

[Vangerdahast]

I have just started to play Ivan and absolutely love his gameplay.

For the moment, I only have his full keyword and the Archivist (because of Spelleaters for Sonnia Criid).

What are the main OOK and Versatile hires for Ivan?

I think Vernon and Welles for scheming.

Harata fort min 3 damage?

Not sold on the Archivist. His attack doesn't ignore Concealement. Isn't is too problematic with Ivan?

Other models?

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

21 minutes ago, Vangerdahast said:

Not sold on the Archivist. His attack doesn't ignore Concealement. Isn't is too problematic with Ivan?

Other models?

 

Archivist can just attack Mordrake for card draw, and gives you +2 initiative.

You can combine it with Ngaatoro for extra focus to get through the concealing as well.

But yeah, it can be an issue unless you really want the initiative + card draw.

[Pallas4]

I used Jessie sometimes. but for now I really like Winston. It's a descent tooljob to place friendly model (but be carrefull to concealment) and he's good scheming in the centers.

Oh and Arcane Reservoir.

[Rufess]

1 hour ago, Vangerdahast said:

What are the main OOK and Versatile hires for Ivan?

Lamplighter is always my first hire along with Gibson and Eva, even before Corvis. The concealing and plus modify from the Lamp marker perfectly matched with the keyword mechanism. Plus the heal and push can help a lot.

[Vangerdahast]

46 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Archivist can just attack Mordrake for card draw, and gives you +2 initiative.

You can combine it with Ngaatoro for extra focus to get through the concealing as well.

But yeah, it can be an issue unless you really want the initiative + card draw.

Ill Omens is huge but damaging Mordrake for card draw worries me.

Mordrake has other utility than losing health.

 

One other thing, it seems that Daeva are not generally hired. I hire one to mimic De Walt's Firefly in order to have Ivan gaining Distracted +8 (at best)Turn 1.

Am I misundersranding something?

Seems pretty potent to me.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Vangerdahast said:

Ill Omens is huge but damaging Mordrake for card draw worries me.

Mordrake has other utility than losing health.

 

One other thing, it seems that Daeva are not generally hired. I hire one to mimic De Walt's Firefly in order to have Ivan gaining Distracted +8 (at best)Turn 1.

Am I misundersranding something?

Seems pretty potent to me.

 

Daeva are super strong, but pretty squishy. They're also not as flashy as things like Archivist or Emissary, so get left out a bit.

But they're quite good, I wouldn't be surprised to see them in competitive play.

N.B. I only play against the crew, I don't play it.

[Vangerdahast]

5 minutes ago, Rufess said:

Lamplighter is always my first hire along with Gibson and Eva, even before Corvis. The concealing and plus modify from the Lamp marker perfectly matched with the keyword mechanism. Plus the heal and push can help a lot.

Just looked at their card and I see what you mean. Will take a closer look at them. Thanks.

[Vangerdahast]

9 minutes ago, Pallas4 said:

I used Jessie sometimes. but for now I really like Winston. It's a descent tooljob to place friendly model (but be carrefull to concealment) and he's good scheming in the centers.

Oh and Arcane Reservoir.

Already thought about Jessie. Perhaps will proxy her.

Haven't thought about Winston but I can see his value with Ivan. Thanks.

 

[Pallas4]

In my opinion Jessie works better with one or two botanists. and even better with a Daeva to mimic her action. But it's really when you need to go anywhere quickly. ^^ In one turn you can give two grow tokens and draw two cards (maybe gain soulstone). But it won't work any time.

[Morgan Vening]

3 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

One other thing, it seems that Daeva are not generally hired. I hire one to mimic De Walt's Firefly in order to have Ivan gaining Distracted +8 (at best)Turn 1.

Am I misundersranding something?

Seems pretty potent to me.

It requires four 4+'s (hardly a challenge, but will on average need to cheat once), a 7+ for the Mimic (needing to cheat a little under half the time), and then having multiple failures as you can't relent on a Shockwave. I'm assuming that you're just having the Daeva do it, and Black Mirroring through Mordrake to get the 8 Distracted off 2 Actions? Mordrake will on average need to cheat about once, and Ivan a little more than twice.

So, on average, it's going to cost you a Daeva activation (20% of a 7SS model's game, and a slow one at that), 1.5 cards to net you Distracted+5 (more if you're have some lows in hand and are willing to turf them). It's got potency, but I think the costs to get there are reasonable.

Always wanted to try OG Seamus into Ivan. Oh, you've got Distracted on everything? Rams are AWESOME! A Belle hitting for 3/4/5 (counting negatives to damage as positives), and Seamus hitting with 4/5/6, but almost everyone in the crew has Ferocity. Not sure how competitive it'd be, but it'd be funny! And Seamus is one of the few models that can maybe fend off Ivan's Intercision, while his crew gives no other targets for Brocken.

[Vangerdahast]

11 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

It requires four 4+'s (hardly a challenge, but will on average need to cheat once), a 7+ for the Mimic (needing to cheat a little under half the time), and then having multiple failures as you can't relent on a Shockwave. I'm assuming that you're just having the Daeva do it, and Black Mirroring through Mordrake to get the 8 Distracted off 2 Actions? Mordrake will on average need to cheat about once, and Ivan a little more than twice.

So, on average, it's going to cost you a Daeva activation (20% of a 7SS model's game, and a slow one at that), 1.5 cards to net you Distracted+5 (more if you're have some lows in hand and are willing to turf them). It's got potency, but I think the costs to get there are reasonable.

Always wanted to try OG Seamus into Ivan. Oh, you've got Distracted on everything? Rams are AWESOME! A Belle hitting for 3/4/5 (counting negatives to damage as positives), and Seamus hitting with 4/5/6, but almost everyone in the crew has Ferocity. Not sure how competitive it'd be, but it'd be funny! And Seamus is one of the few models that can maybe fend off Ivan's Intercision, while his crew gives no other targets for Brocken.

For the moment (two games), I reached Distracted +4 and +6. This is a case where you wish having a crappy hand Turn 1.

I think that it is not something to do each game but quite frequently.

Concerning lack of speed of the Daeva, the Antiluminal Bridge of De Walt can balance that.

So activation of the Daeva is:

Bonus action: mimic

First action: firefly

Second action: walk to the Bridge and Place at the other end of it.

 

And for Seamus, perhaps I won't doing this when I face him.😉

 

[Vangerdahast]

Thanks all for the advices concerning OOK hiring.

 

Concerning Versatiles, Vernon and Welles seem legit, but what other models would you hire?

 

[HomelessOne]

Effigy/Emissary are nice for the usual reasons, but with all the Keyword's positive flips and simple duels you can trigger Aura of Courage often. The Emissary's "I've Got Your Back" is especially lovely for disengaging your DUA models without them having to spend AP on it.

[Fjord]

I am a bit curious about starting Ivan, but I don't know how a crew would even look? It seems most umbra are more summons than hires, Corvis and operatives seem a bit weak to me and Eva looks strong, but situational, so what do you actually take generally ? 

Also would someone mind explaining the love for Gibson? What am I missing ? 

Thank you : ) 

[Adran]

22 minutes ago, Fjord said:

Also would someone mind explaining the love for Gibson? What am I missing ? 
 

Tools for the job, healing, beneficial conditons (Fast and distracted), ranged shadow marker creation and movement tricks. That's a lot of useful support all in 1 package. 

[Fjord]

Do you guys feel like it is worth it to get Corvis and Operatives ? They both seem slightly underpowered to me. 

[Jkkb]

33 minutes ago, Fjord said:

Do you guys feel like it is worth it to get Corvis and Operatives ? They both seem slightly underpowered to me. 

Depending on what you are meeting Operatives can be quite good. They ignore much defensive tech such as Terrifying, Serene Countenance, Manipulative and so on. Attack something near a scheme marker and you draw cards even if you don't hit.

They are quite squishy and you can definitely find models that are better overall.

[Jamadman]

With Ivan double agent, does displacement shot allow a Deva an attack with "made to kill" as it gets placed next to a model, or does the whole effect take place before this can happen? 

[Whut]

1 hour ago, Jamadman said:

With Ivan double agent, does displacement shot allow a Deva an attack with "made to kill" as it gets placed next to a model, or does the whole effect take place before this can happen? 

It does, but the enemy model will be placed before the attack action takes place. This would allow the Daeva to attack a different model if you can place it in B2B (or within melee range if mimicked) with two models, or if the enemy model is still within melee range after it is placed