Tweaking

[Mycellanious]

Arcanists are often touted as one of the most internally balanced factions in the game. That said, in your opinion, which 1-2 Keywords would you like to see receive a little bit of love? Which 1-2 Keywords would like to toned down? In what way? 

[dannydb]

colette and sandeep probably need looking at a tad maybe reducing presto chango range to 6 and doing something with kandara?

marcus and raspy are my masters that need a boost, raspy doesn't have a plan b if you can deal with her ice pillars and marcus seems to lose out with all the mobile masters we have that are better than what he offers in some way

[Plaag]

2 hours ago, dannydb said:

colette and sandeep probably need looking at a tad maybe reducing presto chango range to 6 and doing something with kandara?

marcus and raspy are my masters that need a boost, raspy doesn't have a plan b if you can deal with her ice pillars and marcus seems to lose out with all the mobile masters we have that are better than what he offers in some way

marcus is very strong, if u know how to play; raspi is weak; give her ignore of concealment, cover and/or friendly fire

[Ogid]

Yep agree with the above choices, Sandeep and Colette are the 2 strongest ones imo, but I'm not sure about nerfing them tho; they aren't that far from what masters from other factions do.

For buffs Rasputina and Marcus are also the 2 ones I'd pick.

Rasputina is very resource hungry and her master only ability is a bit weak. A buff in Harsh Winter, for example increasing the aura to 2'' and making her draw a card when the enemy model decides to discard a card to not gain slow. Maybe give her also Expert Shot, and give December Acolytes Nepharious Pact.

Marcus has his 2 sabertooth build with SS cache that works well (specially when it snowballs), but the rest of the keyword doesn't quite work. Plus is quite hard to add non-chimeras to the crew, it has a lot of weaknesses and a slow start but no scaling, he presures his own hand a lot and there are a big difference between NVB and ARC.

 

I've played this last one quite a bit in NVB and I've been thinking about what I'd change:

Marcus:

• Guided evolution adds: When a beast or chimera is deployed, that model may attach 1 mutation upgrade. Models that attach an upgrade this way cannot be the target of chimerancy in turn 1.
• New ability: "Two Worlds": When hiring, chimera and beast models may purchase upgrades from all factions this model belongs.
• Remove Call of the wild from Marcus, give him a new ability that make friendly models move (even non beasts), friendly beasts may chose to charge instead (not being this a trigger) with a built-in tomes and a Purification trigger.
• Primal Roar gains a Reposition trigger.

Myranda:

• Huntress aura applies to non-chimera beasts too.
• Primal flame changed to heal 0/2/3 for friendly models. Beasts get +1 healing and the for mutation attached. A non-built-in purification trigger added.
• Bestial form also gives Attuned.

Sabertooth:

• Loses Onslaught trigger. Gains Shove aside, Pouncing strikes or Quick Reflexes trigger.

Adaptive evolution: Only works in Friendly-controlled actions; It's added to cost 2 mutations.

New Mutation: Hive Mind (Cost 1). It cannot be attached to Mindless models. If this model is a beast, it gains Adaptative. This model gains the free action Final Sacrifice.

Beast added to: Posion Gamin, Wendigo, Snow Storm, Waldgeist.

 

The objetives of these changes are:

• Open the keyword to Versatile/OOK picks while keeping beasts as the ones with more synergy (Marcus and Myranda action changes).
• Reduce some glaring keyword weakneses (conditions and obeys). 
• Give a big gimmick to the master and reduce at the same time the impact of upgrades between factions (Two Worlds).
• Increase the synergy within the faction (new beasts and Myranda aura).
• Keep the combat abilities of the crew on check (Cerberus changes and crew still very weak versus any anti charge tech).
• Give a niche to cheap beasts, make beast more reliable and speed up the first turn (Guided evolution change plus new mutation).

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

Yep agree with the above choices, Sandeep and Colette are the 2 strongest ones imo, but I'm not sure about nerfing them tho; they aren't that far from what masters from other factions do.

For buffs Rasputina and Marcus are also the 2 ones I'd pick.

Rasputina is very resource hungry and her master only ability is a bit weak. A buff in Harsh Winter, for example increasing the aura to 2'' and making her draw a card when the enemy model decides to discard a card to not gain slow. Maybe give her also Expert Shot, and give December Acolytes Nepharious Pact.

Marcus has his 2 sabertooth build with SS cache that works well (specially when it snoballs), but the rest of the keyword doesn't quite work. Plus is quite hard to add non-chimeras to the crew, it has a lot of weaknesses, it has a slow start but no scaling and there are a big difference between NVB and ARC.

 

I've played this last one quite a bit in NVB and I've been thinking about what I'd change:

Marcus:

• Guided evolution adds: When a beast or chimera is deployed, that model may attach 1 mutation upgrade. Those models cannot be the target of chimerancy in turn 1.
• New ability: "Two Worlds": When hiring, chimera and beast models may purchase upgrades from all factions this model belongs.
• Remove Call of the wild from Marcus, give him a new ability that make friendly models move (even non beasts), friendly beasts may chose to charge instead (not being this a trigger) with a built-in tomes and a Purification trigger.
• Primal Roar gain a Reposition trigger.

Myranda:

• Huntress aura apply to non-chimera beasts too.
• Primal flame changed to heal 0/2/3 for friendly models. Beasts get +1 healing and the for mutation attached. A non-built-in purification trigger added.
• Bestial form also gives Attuned.

Sabertooth:

• Loses Onslaught trigger. Gains Shove aside, Pouncing strikes or Quick Reflexes trigger.

Adaptive evolution: Only works in Friendly-controlled actions; It's added to cost 2 mutations.

New Mutation: Hive Mind (Cost 1). It cannot be attached to Mindless models. If this model is a beast, it gains Adaptative. This model gains the free action Final Sacrifice.

Beast added to: Posion Gamin, Wendigo, Snow Storm, Waldgeist.

 

The objetives of these changes are:

• Open the keyword to Versatile/OOK picks while keeping beasts as the ones with more synergy (Marcus and Myranda action changes).
• Reduce some glaring keyword weakneses (conditions and obeys). 
• Give a big gimmick to the master that reduce at the same time the impact of upgrades between factions (Two Worlds).
• Increase the synergy within the faction (new beasts and Myranda aura).
• Keep the combat abilities of the crew on check (Cerberus changes and crew still very weak versus any anti charge tech).
• Give a niche to cheap beasts, make beast more reliable and speed up the first turn (Guided evolution change plus new mutation).

sandip is not too strong, he is balanced; marcus is very powerful, u just pick wrong models; raspi need to be rabalanced, i like your idea abt card draw for opponents discards; mei feng is very powerful, but sparks ups need to be rebalanced; kaeris is good master, but golem and firebranded need to be reworked, they are terrible; toni balanced; colette is the strongest master, she need to be reworked a little bit, but i dont want it)) but if u will think abt her, u will see, that she does not deal dmg, so as master she is balanced; hoff is pretty strong master 

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Plaag said:

sandip is not too strong, he is balanced; marcus is very powerful, u just pick wrong models; raspi need to be rabalanced, i like your idea abt card draw for opponents discards; mei feng is very powerful, but sparks ups need to be rebalanced; kaeris is good master, but golem and firebranded need to be reworked, they are terrible; toni balanced; colette is the strongest master, she need to be reworked a little bit, but i dont want it)) but if u will think abt her, u will see, that she does not deal dmg, so as master she is balanced; hoff is pretty strong master 

I've played versus Mei Feng, but not versus Sparks yet. Those upgrades seem quite scary tbh (specially as a NVB player). Hoffman is another that I haven't faced yet, It looks good tho.

The most powerful lists with Marcus are some mix of sabertooths + SS cache, Cojo, Blessed, Myranda and miners; but imho is a waste when a master with a ton of models only works well with a few of them and can't adapt well adding Versatiles/OOK. I'm not sure if you have played in NVB with him, but he is bellow the curve in the purple side.

Firebranded aren't impressive but seem okish. I've faced them once, they are not that hard to remove but for 6SS offer good healing and may have to every duel. What would you change in them?

The golem I think it's ok, vulnerable versus condition removal but very mobile, tanky with enough Burning and hit hard. I've only seen him in Sandeep crews tho (now that may be summoned with a huge stack of burning and Focused), not sure how good/bad is with Kaeris. Why do you dislike it?

[touchdown]

I feel like December as a keyword needs a way to summon Ice Gamin.

Also her ranged attacks should either need less resources to get off (maybe discard 1 card and you can use triggers via Ice Mirror for the entire activation?) or some card draw added.

36 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Firebranded aren't impressive but seem okish. I've faced them once, they are not that hard to remove but for 6SS offer good healing and may have to every duel. What would you change in them?

most of your models want burning. Reducing it for healing might be the most expensive heal in the game resource wise.

[Plaag]

2 hours ago, Ogid said:

I've played versus Mei Feng, but not versus Sparks yet. Those upgrades seem quite scary tbh (specially as a NVB player). Hoffman is another that I haven't faced yet, It looks good tho.

The most powerful lists with Marcus are some mix of sabertooths + SS cache, Cojo, Blessed, Myranda and miners; but imho is a waste when a master with a ton of models only works well with a few of them and can't adapt well adding Versatiles/OOK. I'm not sure if you have played in NVB with him, but he is bellow the curve in the purple side.

Firebranded aren't impressive but seem okish. I've faced them once, they are not that hard to remove but for 6SS offer good healing and may have to every duel. What would you change in them?

The golem I think it's ok, vulnerable versus condition removal but very mobile, tanky with enough Burning and hit hard. I've only seen him in Sandeep crews tho (now that may be summoned with a huge stack of burning and Focused), not sure how good/bad is with Kaeris. Why do you dislike it?

in marcus u need paul, and cojo have 7+ focuses 1 turn; with sparcs i can make combo 6-13 dmg with 1 action; firebranded only heals near model and models with some burning on them/near, its better to take silent one or medical auromaton if u need good heal; so firebranded need to be specialized on smthing-like heal with reapeat and good distance; golem is bad model, because of 5 stats, living only with burning, some actions like condition removal or making dmg with the value of condition wii kill him very fast, and his triggers are awful

[Adran]

31 minutes ago, Plaag said:

in marcus u need paul, and cojo have 7+ focuses 1 turn; with sparcs i can make combo 6-13 dmg with 1 action; 

I can't work out the Sparks combo ( Although I assume it's something with bombs in your belly, so it's not really1 action and requires sparks up close to a bubble)

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I can't work out the Sparks combo ( Although I assume it's something with bombs in your belly, so it's not really1 action and requires sparks up close to a bubble)

why it is so fantastic to u?

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Plaag said:

in marcus u need paul, and cojo have 7+ focuses 1 turn

Oh true, Paul is a great model! I kind of forgot about him because i'm playing Marcus in very mobility based pools (in NVB) and I stop taking him because he loses some value when I don't want to brawl, and as he isn't a beast, healing him is hard.

7 Focused lol? Are you using Union Miners in your lists? I've gotten from 2 to 5 a few times using Wisps/dolls but I've never gotten 7 the first turn. It adds some good damage to the Accomplice combo with Marcus and make up a bit for how card hungry Marcus is, however stopping that it's too easy; from stunning Marcus to pick things with Extended Reach/Reach of the Union/Disguised... I rather something more reliable to brawl.

1 hour ago, Plaag said:

i can make combo 6-13 dmg with 1 action

Could you elaborate this? I have a friend getting into Mei Feng that I'm sure that would be interested in doing that.

2 hours ago, touchdown said:

most of your models want burning. Reducing it for healing might be the most expensive heal in the game resource wise

It's not the first time that I hear this, I don't have that much experience with/vs them so I'll take your word here.

[Mycellanious]

5 hours ago, Plaag said:

marcus is very strong, if u know how to play; raspi is weak; give her ignore of concealment, cover and/or friendly fire

The Keyword needs to be able to ignore Ice Pillars. They often give their opponents Cover and have several big base models that really struggle to navigate them, but also need to be near them for benefits. Often times I feel like Raspy's crew drains their own resources more than their opponent's

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

The Keyword needs to be able to ignore Ice Pillars. They often give their opponents Cover and have several big base models that really struggle to navigate them, but also need to be near them for benefits. Often times I feel like Raspy's crew drains their own resources more than their opponent's

thats true, but u need to create pillars wisely, and ice golem need laugh off because of 4 walk and opponent just can throw him away

[Ogid]

3 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

The Keyword needs to be able to ignore Ice Pillars. They often give their opponents Cover and have several big base models that really struggle to navigate them, but also need to be near them for benefits.

About this part, something I didn't notice about her at first is that when tracing LoS from an Ice Pilar, enemies won't get cover from that Ice Pilar (same with silents) and as she may cast shatter from pilars, she may remove another pilar giving cover. It's still possible to screw yourself missplacing pilars, but it's not as bad as it seems at first glance.

Navigate big bases is a pain tho, but at least she has a few skinny models, not like Euripides and his almost full 50mm crew haha.

[Adran]

26 minutes ago, Plaag said:

why it is so fantastic to u?

I'm generally nosy, and like to know how others use things. Most of the time I can work out the basics of the combos myself, but this one I can't work out a consistent way you're getting it. I'm assuming it involves pushing models through several hazardous areas. I can get 6-12 with jackhammer and 2 hazardous, I suppose13 is red joker...

 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

Oh true, Paul is a great model! I kind of forgot about him because i'm playing Marcus in very mobility based pools (in NVB) and I stop taking him because he loses some value when I don't want to brawl, and as he isn't a beast, healing him is hard.

7 Focused lol? Are you using Union Miners in your lists? I've gotten from 2 to 5 a few times using Wisps/dolls but I've never gotten 7 the first turn. It adds some good damage to the Accomplice combo with Marcus and make up a bit for how card hungry Marcus is, however stopping that it's too easy; from stunning Marcus to pick things with Extended Reach/Reach of the Union/Disguised... I rather something more reliable to brawl.

Could you elaborate this? I have a friend getting into Mei Feng that I'm sure that would be interested in doing that.

It's not the first time that I hear this, I don't have that much experience with/vs them so I'll take your word here.

abt marcus-yes, u are wright, im using miner, and abilities against charge dont work well when model is already near your model, so paul shoot 2 times, makes cojo hit 4 times if u have mask or cash on him, also u can use reactivation

 

abt mei-u need 2 hazardous and model with bring it with bombs)) i think u are starting understand

 

abt firebranded-i have tried them, u need to heal models, so u need it 6" near, but in that position he dont lives well

[Mycellanious]

4 hours ago, Ogid said:

Yep agree with the above choices, Sandeep and Colette are the 2 strongest ones imo, but I'm not sure about nerfing them tho; they aren't that far from what masters from other factions do.

For buffs Rasputina and Marcus are also the 2 ones I'd pick.

Rasputina is very resource hungry and her master only ability is a bit weak. A buff in Harsh Winter, for example increasing the aura to 2'' and making her draw a card when the enemy model decides to discard a card to not gain slow. Maybe give her also Expert Shot, and give December Acolytes Nepharious Pact.

Marcus has his 2 sabertooth build with SS cache that works well (specially when it snowballs), but the rest of the keyword doesn't quite work. Plus is quite hard to add non-chimeras to the crew, it has a lot of weaknesses and a slow start but no scaling, he presures his own hand a lot and there are a big difference between NVB and ARC.

 

I've played this last one quite a bit in NVB and I've been thinking about what I'd change:

Marcus:

• Guided evolution adds: When a beast or chimera is deployed, that model may attach 1 mutation upgrade. Models that attach an upgrade this way cannot be the target of chimerancy in turn 1.
• New ability: "Two Worlds": When hiring, chimera and beast models may purchase upgrades from all factions this model belongs.
• Remove Call of the wild from Marcus, give him a new ability that make friendly models move (even non beasts), friendly beasts may chose to charge instead (not being this a trigger) with a built-in tomes and a Purification trigger.
• Primal Roar gains a Reposition trigger.

Myranda:

• Huntress aura applies to non-chimera beasts too.
• Primal flame changed to heal 0/2/3 for friendly models. Beasts get +1 healing and the for mutation attached. A non-built-in purification trigger added.
• Bestial form also gives Attuned.

Sabertooth:

• Loses Onslaught trigger. Gains Shove aside, Pouncing strikes or Quick Reflexes trigger.

Adaptive evolution: Only works in Friendly-controlled actions; It's added to cost 2 mutations.

New Mutation: Hive Mind (Cost 1). It cannot be attached to Mindless models. If this model is a beast, it gains Adaptative. This model gains the free action Final Sacrifice.

Beast added to: Posion Gamin, Wendigo, Snow Storm, Waldgeist.

 

The objetives of these changes are:

• Open the keyword to Versatile/OOK picks while keeping beasts as the ones with more synergy (Marcus and Myranda action changes).
• Reduce some glaring keyword weakneses (conditions and obeys). 
• Give a big gimmick to the master and reduce at the same time the impact of upgrades between factions (Two Worlds).
• Increase the synergy within the faction (new beasts and Myranda aura).
• Keep the combat abilities of the crew on check (Cerberus changes and crew still very weak versus any anti charge tech).
• Give a niche to cheap beasts, make beast more reliable and speed up the first turn (Guided evolution change plus new mutation).

I agree that Marcus is strong, if still the weakest in his Factions, but disagree with your overall accessment (I play Arcanist). For me, I think the Rattler is criminally underrated, with Magical Training and Armored Plates it can punch way above its Cost and usually scores points for me. I also really like Vogel, even if he's the most complicated model I've ever seen. The extra movement the Beast brings is crazy, and the extra card draw and healing from Vogel is fantastic. 

I think Order Initiates are now worth it. They seriously reduce the pressure on Marcus' AP and Cards. They can also punch above their weight class. Start them with Serrated Teeth and Claws, Charge in use Stampede for 1 damage. Use Adaptive Evolution for Puncture/Chimera Strike and get Adversary on them. Then Bonus Action to grab Formidable Horns, and Adaptive Evolution for Onslaught attacks which are now at a positive/double positive. Quite reliable, quite powerful. 

After playing Somer, I realized you can super stack Focus on Cojo. Have some models drop Scheme Markers near him (max of 3 without False Claim) and then he Concentrates, uses his Bonus and has Focus +4.

The biggest difference between our evaluations however is that I think Marcus is stronger with a good chunk of stones OOK. This allows him to focus his efforts on a few beasts, instead of the whole crew. It also drastically reduces upgrade pressure, since all the Chimera models are priced with the potential for upgrades in mind. I like the Riders for this, since they can pull Marcus up the board and he really doesnt want to be walking.

 

What I would do is make Adaptive Evolution part of the Upgrade, even if that ability has the restriction "non-Master Chimera models gain the Ability." Because getting an upgrade stuck on Vogel or Paul or the Rattler or the Molemen feels crappy. I'd also consider upping the rarity of each upgrade to 3.

[Mycellanious]

43 minutes ago, Ogid said:

About this part, something I didn't notice about her at first is that when tracing LoS from an Ice Pilar, enemies won't get cover from that Ice Pilar (same with silents) and as she may cast shatter from pilars, she may remove another pilar giving cover. It's still possible to screw yourself missplacing pilars, but it's not as bad as it seems at first glance.

Navigate big bases is a pain tho, but at least she has a few skinny models, not like Euripides and his almost full 50mm crew haha.

I wasnt just talking about Raspy, but the crew as a whole. Acolytes and Silent Ones both have Sacrifice to December, so they want to target things near Pillars, but then have to deal with Cover. I dont think they need Expert Shot, I think Harsh Winter should be "Friendly December models ignore Ice Pillars when drawing LoS"

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

I wasnt just talking about Raspy, but the crew as a whole. Acolytes and Silent Ones both have Sacrifice to December, so they want to target things near Pillars, but then have to deal with Cover. I dont think they need Expert Shot, I think Harsh Winter should be "Friendly December models ignore Ice Pillars when drawing LoS"

when u target model near pillar-u draw los from that pillar and model does not have cover

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Plaag said:

when u target model near pillar-u draw los from that pillar and model does not have cover

Only 

A) if the attacker has Ice Mirror, Acolytes do not

B) 

If the Ice Pillar is within Aura 8. Often, you use a Pillar to throw a second pillar 18" away, then use the first to try to attack an enemy model 20" away

[Adran]

6 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

 

If the Ice Pillar is within Aura 8. Often, you use a Pillar to throw a second pillar 18" away, then use the first to try to attack an enemy model 20" away

Can I suggest that you don't create the pillar in a place that gives them cover then. ( I'm not saying that the cover doesn't sometimes cause problems, but an example where you have just created the pillar that gives them the cover just sounds like bad play, especially when the create pillar action has the same or greater range them the attacks). 

[Plaag]

10 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

I agree that Marcus is strong, if still the weakest in his Factions, but disagree with your overall accessment (I play Arcanist). For me, I think the Rattler is criminally underrated, with Magical Training and Armored Plates it can punch way above its Cost and usually scores points for me. I also really like Vogel, even if he's the most complicated model I've ever seen. The extra movement the Beast brings is crazy, and the extra card draw and healing from Vogel is fantastic. 

I think Order Initiates are now worth it. They seriously reduce the pressure on Marcus' AP and Cards. They can also punch above their weight class. Start them with Serrated Teeth and Claws, Charge in use Stampede for 1 damage. Use Adaptive Evolution for Puncture/Chimera Strike and get Adversary on them. Then Bonus Action to grab Formidable Horns, and Adaptive Evolution for Onslaught attacks which are now at a positive/double positive. Quite reliable, quite powerful. 

After playing Somer, I realized you can super stack Focus on Cojo. Have some models drop Scheme Markers near him (max of 3 without False Claim) and then he Concentrates, uses his Bonus and has Focus +4.

The biggest difference between our evaluations however is that I think Marcus is stronger with a good chunk of stones OOK. This allows him to focus his efforts on a few beasts, instead of the whole crew. It also drastically reduces upgrade pressure, since all the Chimera models are priced with the potential for upgrades in mind. I like the Riders for this, since they can pull Marcus up the board and he really doesnt want to be walking.

 

What I would do is make Adaptive Evolution part of the Upgrade, even if that ability has the restriction "non-Master Chimera models gain the Ability." Because getting an upgrade stuck on Vogel or Paul or the Rattler or the Molemen feels crappy. I'd also consider upping the rarity of each upgrade to 3.

initiates are very bad models, rattler is also bad if u hire it on a start, vogel is bad model too

[Ogid]

11 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

I agree that Marcus is strong, if still the weakest in his Factions, but disagree with your overall accessment (I play Arcanist). For me, I think the Rattler is criminally underrated, with Magical Training and Armored Plates it can punch way above its Cost and usually scores points for me. I also really like Vogel, even if he's the most complicated model I've ever seen. The extra movement the Beast brings is crazy, and the extra card draw and healing from Vogel is fantastic.

I've played mostly in NVB, with a few ARC games to see the differences myself. ARC upgrades really enable Marcus. SS cache make one model getting a few upgrades both dangerous (being able to bypass , buy triggers and generate more SS) and harder to remove; plus with empower it also reduces the hand pressure; and the other 2 upgrades even if not that good, they always bring some kind of defensive tech. Just SS cache make very hard to compete for NVB Marcus. I also like Vogel, but I just can't find the cards he needs to be effective. The Rattler is also a fine model for some particular pools.

Don't get me wrong, NVB upgrades are fine, Cojo with IR is something to see in action for example; but for this crew the ARC ones really seal the deal. I wouldn't say NVB marcus is an strong master tbh... that's also why I was suggesting changes, I'd like to see both sides of the crews performing more or less the same; or if doing that is too much hassle, even with how much I like Marcus I'd rather see him as an ARC Master and NVB getting something different.

11 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

I think Order Initiates are now worth it. They seriously reduce the pressure on Marcus' AP and Cards. They can also punch above their weight class. Start them with Serrated Teeth and Claws, Charge in use Stampede for 1 damage. Use Adaptive Evolution for Puncture/Chimera Strike and get Adversary on them. Then Bonus Action to grab Formidable Horns, and Adaptive Evolution for Onslaught attacks which are now at a positive/double positive. Quite reliable, quite powerful. 

I've had not much success with them, but I used them as some short of support with punch in case something get near; other players also recommended me to try them with IR and command them with Marcus. I have to try them more now that they are 6SS.

However I don't like when there are too many "must" in a crew to cover the holes, it makes the crew predictable and unable to adapt.

11 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

The biggest difference between our evaluations however is that I think Marcus is stronger with a good chunk of stones OOK. This allows him to focus his efforts on a few beasts, instead of the whole crew. It also drastically reduces upgrade pressure, since all the Chimera models are priced with the potential for upgrades in mind. I like the Riders for this, since they can pull Marcus up the board and he really doesnt want to be walking.

I usually play most masters with a good chunk of OOK/Versatiles because I do like to adapt to the pool and enemy crew, but it's something hard to do with Marcus. In NVB having no SS cache few beasts is very risky because if you lose them too fast, then the Master is useless; when you have SS to cover them then I guess it's something easier to do. Also as the crew gives 0 support to those versatiles I don't like including expensive models like the Rider or Hinamatsu knowing that every Hp they lose is an Hp not coming back. So it ends with either a crew with 0 synergy or a crew full of beasts and Marcus struggling to support all of them.

I don't really understand why chimera abilities try so hard to exlcude other models. Even other masters with crews with an strong theme give some/good support to versatiles/OOK, just check Yan-Lo, Von Schtook or Zoraida to name a few powerful ones. I don't really want Marcus to be that tier, but it feels hadicapped in NVB

11 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

After playing Somer, I realized you can super stack Focus on Cojo. Have some models drop Scheme Markers near him (max of 3 without False Claim) and then he Concentrates, uses his Bonus and has Focus +4.

Yep, this is a good opening. It's possible to fit 4 without False claim, however that one requires a precise positioning and deploying Cojo a bit behind (around 3''), plus not having terrain disrupting that; so it's not always viable or even worth it. If I recall correctly, it's even possible to fit 5, however that requires a very tigh positioning that I'm not sure if it's viable in a real game.

4 markers plus a concentrate action from Cojo is my best so far in NVB (for a total of Focused+5 in turn 1)

11 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

What I would do is make Adaptive Evolution part of the Upgrade, even if that ability has the restriction "non-Master Chimera models gain the Ability." Because getting an upgrade stuck on Vogel or Paul or the Rattler or the Molemen feels crappy. I'd also consider upping the rarity of each upgrade to 3.

I agree some changes are needed here. The first part is something that doesn't bother me that much, but it'd an improvement. However I disagree in the second one, it's not more upgrades but a more efficient way to put them in the table.

In one hand Marcus scaling are mutations that don't scale as hard as most other things in the game (again mainly from a NVB pow); at the same time the crew is super fast and could be making plays from turn 1 (and should versus crews that scale harder than him); but it can't because the Master is stuck tossing mutations a good chunk of turn 1 and 2, which also depletes the resources of the crew. Also cheap beasts get significantly better with mutations, but at the same time the AP and cards needed to give it it's not always worth it.

[dannydb]

@Plaag would it be possible for you to go in to a bit more depth regarding what you considering good and bad models and why

 

you seem to have very poler views on models without giving any detail why?

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, dannydb said:

@Plaag would it be possible for you to go in to a bit more depth regarding what you considering good and bad models and why

 

you seem to have very poler views on models without giving any detail why?

just trust me, if u dont-we can just play in vassal