Where to branch out with Pandora?

[Taekwoncho]

Hi all,

I'm a new player taking my first steps into Malifaux. I have played miniature games for a few years, playing AoS and Kill Team. I've been a die hard Sylvaneth player since day one of my Warhammer venture and absolutely wanted to play Titania but unfortunately, I couldn't get my hands on her easy and had to settle for Pandora. Or so I thought. The more I read the rules, listen to podcasts and wait for my box to arrive, I'm getting incredibly excited to play her. I've ordered the core box and because of the promise I made to my girlfriend (which I have broken already), I cannot buy another box until I finish painting the core box. I'm tempted to buy Carver and Teddy as my next purchase, but I keep seeing that Iggy is a staple in this crew? My friend group have been getting a starter box each recently too, with a dreamer, Rasputina and Zipp so far. So what would my next steps be? Thanks everyone!

[Regelridderen]

Pandora is a pretty simple entry into ‘faux - and a really great (but demanding) master to play. I recommend checking out T&G Productions battle reports on YouTube with her and also their harlefaux show podcast.

For expanding, get her keyword and Teddy. So that’s Iggy and Aversions, Carver - she plays best within her keyword synergy, but the versatiles Serena, Hinamatsu, Hoody Rider are good to tech in once in a while, also Wrath from the Crossroads7
 

Beyond that, her models has nice synergy with the nightmare crew. But I’d recommend you go with Pandora and the Woe(+Teddy) for the first bunch of games, get a feel for the game tactics and mechanics and see what other crews can do to you before branching out. 

 

[Ogid]

Not much to add to the above, just a big shout-out to the rider; that model have been huge for me with Pandora. That crew is a bit in the slower end, but depends a lot on their short range auras; also Pandora and Candy has no engagement range so there is no efficient way to move up the board when the enemy is near (charges generates no attack, Candy at least have on your heels), Ride with me helps a lot with that. Also the ability to reposition Candy to the perfect spot with the rider without having to activate her is very good. And the rider is a good beater on top of all those tricks.

About Iggy, it's pretty good; but it's also game dependent, he is not an auto include for me. All the hype with him is his Arson ability plus Reckless that is a good long range scheme marker denial. In games where there is no a lot of scheme markers in the pool (or if the terrain make hard to target the far ones), then you'll be fine not picking him. For combat, he hit hard for a 6SS model when he is near of Pandora (2 Misery pings), but he can't take any retaliation at all.

A model that I personally like with the crew is the humble Changelling to use Pandora and Candy tactical actions; those are not super high priority to play her, but they come in the box with the Dopleganger that is another decent versatile model.

Be sure to check older threads in this subforum, Pandora is a master that have been discussed a lot in this forum; you might find good ideas for your list and get a feel on what works for her and what not.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Regelridden and Ogid give a great breakdown of where to start. That alone will get you through 20+ games I'd imagine. Hooded Rider is pretty big on my list of Pandora models as well.

Once you're ready for the next step, here's some additional thoughts. Though note I haven't played her in a while.

Serena Bowman is one of the faction's best claim jumpers, and works pretty well with the crew anyway, so is worth considering (as you often want to declare Pandora into claim jump pools anyway). Now that there are both Leave your mark AND Claim Jump as possible schemes, I imagine Pandora is a bit stronger than before in that regard.

Pandora's crew is extremely card hungry. I was never able to find an Ancient Pact setup I liked, but keep an eye out for finding a way to use Ancient Pact in a productive way. Another method is to emphasise models that don't need a lot of cards to be useful:

• Models with high stats (Kade's stat 7, Hinamatsu's stat 6+, etc).
• Black Blood Shaman's pulsed focus can alleviate the need for as many cards (if you can find something for it to stab usefully).
• Be careful of putting too many Target Numbers into the crew - if you have a turn where you fail a few it can put loads of pressure on your hand.

And of course, if you drain your opponent's hand, it doesn't matter that you're out of cards too!

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Pandora's crew is extremely card hungry. I was never able to find an Ancient Pact setup I liked, but keep an eye out for finding a way to use Ancient Pact in a productive way. Another method is to emphasise models that don't need a lot of cards to be useful:

• Models with high stats (Kade's stat 7, Hinamatsu's stat 6+, etc).
• Black Blood Shaman's pulsed focus can alleviate the need for as many cards (if you can find something for it to stab usefully).
• Be careful of putting too many Target Numbers into the crew - if you have a turn where you fail a few it can put loads of pressure on your hand.

That's solid advice. Pandora wants cards for things like Mod Swings or Despair's Influence and that takes a toll on the hand. I also tend not to use AP with her, her minions need to be too near of the action to be effective and that make easy for the other player to remove the APs, also rushing is not what she does best so the initiative isn't that good as in other crews and Mood Swings helps to delay a critical enemy activation when they are in the bubble anyway (I've killed a few important models before they might act thanks to that ability, hence no need to win initiative that hard). I've also used models like Hinamatsu (which is also great for the pass token to get "free" Mood Swings later in the game), BBS or Stitcheds (double master Dreamer) to cover that weakness.

[Taekwoncho]

Thanks heaps guys! Chose to buy Teddy and Carver. Checked out the batreps and podcasts and was a huge help!

 

[Regelridderen]

10 hours ago, Taekwoncho said:

Thanks heaps guys! Chose to buy Teddy and Carver. Checked out the batreps and podcasts and was a huge help!

 

Congrats, there’s tons of great games in those models. Paint them up and get them on the field

[Da Git]

The other model I really want to try is the Emissary (I swear this has nothing to do with just getting Pandora's old avatar model!). Throwing out Hungry Land markers for you to Misery push the enemy around in sounds really fun!

[Nagi21]

8 minutes ago, Da Git said:

The other model I really want to try is the Emissary (I swear this has nothing to do with just getting Pandora's old avatar model!). Throwing out Hungry Land markers for you to Misery push the enemy around in sounds really fun!

It can be but he's expensive and of course, slow.  He also needs time to setup unless the board is already covered in severe, concealing terrain.  Also he's fighting Carver, Ted, Hina, and Rider for his spot.

[Regelridderen]

I've been looking for an excuse to get the 'treeman', and there is some great synergy in the ability to push and the ability to generate severe terrain (it's at least two points of damage, to enter and to leave).

Trouble is, the ability to generate Hungry Land Markers aren't a given, as the trigger isn't built in – on the other hand, the emissary gives you a use for high tome cards, but it isn't a given for the turns, when you'd count on it. 

I'd rather look at a model like Coppelius with the ability to burst out Slow, while being a fast scheme-y model, with enough punch to one-shot scheme runners.

[Ogid]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:37 PM, Regelridderen said:

I've been looking for an excuse to get the 'treeman', and there is some great synergy in the ability to push and the ability to generate severe terrain (it's at least two points of damage, to enter and to leave).

Trouble is, the ability to generate Hungry Land Markers aren't a given, as the trigger isn't built in – on the other hand, the emissary gives you a use for high tome cards, but it isn't a given for the turns, when you'd count on it. 

I have this same problem with it, I see the synergy but at the same time the other 10/11SS options are almost always a better fit than him; so it ends always not being picked.

Also his terrain is a double edge sword, most of Pandora's crew is affected by both traits; so a misplaced marker may be dangerous for the crew itself.

I've been thinking about including the effigy + upgrade instead; it's cheaper, the effigy may expend the first 2 turns building Focused (which will help a lot getting moderate for a ) or helping with positioning and then from turn 3 start blasting and pinging.

Have anyone had any success with the Effigy+EoF or the emissary with Pandora?

[Da Git]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:34 AM, Ogid said:

I have this same problem with it, I see the synergy but at the same time the other 10/11SS options are almost always a better fit than him; so it ends always not being picked.

Also his terrain is a double edge sword, most of Pandora's crew is affected by both traits; so a misplaced marker may be dangerous for the crew itself.

I've been thinking about including the effigy + upgrade instead; it's cheaper, the effigy may expend the first 2 turns building Focused (which will help a lot getting moderate for a ) or helping with positioning and then from turn 3 start blasting and pinging.

Have anyone had any success with the Effigy+EoF or the emissary with Pandora?

That's the approach I want to go with for the same reasons. The Focus really helps get those blasts out. Alternatively, if you move the Effigy up earlier, you can Lure up Candy or Pandy to save their AP

[Ogid]

22 hours ago, Da Git said:

That's the approach I want to go with for the same reasons. The Focus really helps get those blasts out. Alternatively, if you move the Effigy up earlier, you can Lure up Candy or Pandy to save their AP

You seem to be in the same wavelength than me about this posible build for the crew... I'll elaborate a bit: I've 2 main ideas for a crew with the Effigy+EoF with Pandora that I've not had the oportunity to play yet: 

• One is including other models that let the crew scale (Dreamer second master and/or BBS for example), play conservative the first 2 turns while summoning and growing stuff and then strike hard in turn 3 with the advantage of a more powerful crew. Dreamer seems a good fit as he is incorporeal and can summon Insidious Madness that may also ignore the hungry land markers (incorporeal models), give conditions to trigger Misery, debuff models and throw them into the terrain at the same time; also Feed on fear in the summons goes well with how many Wp duels Pandora may force.
• The second one is using the Effigy to set up an alpha strike with Kade and Teddy: Put Fast in both models with Candy (using Pandy/Changeling automatic suit) if cards allow it Kade could also get a trigger; use a doll to give Adversary (Puppet) to Kade and Adversary (Woe) to Teddy (this is important to not having to use too many cards cheating Lures as both Kade and Teddy will need them to cheat and use Flurry; Kade lure only needs a 5 but the effigy's one needs an 8), Vasilisa double walk and place Effigy around 12'' away, Effigy double Lure Kade, Kade Lure bonus (heal both) Teddy and then 2 Lures or Lure+Attack to 1 or 2 enemy models (activated if possible), Teddy then proceeds to rip that model(s) apart with 4 attacks. This may threaten a model about 24'' from the deployment zone (without considering terrain).

Depending on the other models and crew, this is also a good crew for Wrath and Lysas (double ping for Bring it a model into a hazardous marker) and maybe even a Cyclops if 1 or 2 Lysas are included. I also like Vasilisa for this one to be able to heal the Effigy in case the other player go after it and to also give it easier target after turn 3 (staggered). Are those the builds you were thinking about or do you have another ideas about what would fit in that crew?

As you'll probably play a game before I get the chance; please let us know how it works if you have the oportunity to test this out