Help with the Reva Flesh Construct Engine

[LeperColony]

A player in my local meta was talking about taking McMourning with Reva, and we started trying to map out the best way to make a Flesh Construct engine.  

We were thinking taking a Grave Spirit and a Graverobber.  This way you could reliably generate enough corpse markers to make a Flesh Construct on turns 1 and 2.  Possibly also a Bone Pile to peel off the slow on the summoned model.

Any thoughts?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Well... I have to admit I missed the part where McMourning doesn't need a card & stone to summon a flesh construct. This combo seems pretty sweet!

Sources of corpse markers by turn 2:

• 4 from Reva and reanimating corpse candles (but let's say 3 so it doesn't feel too inefficient for her).
• 3 from Gravedigger
• 2 from restless spirit
• 1 from a mourner
• 2 from emissary.

So overall it actually sounds pretty easy to do. Reva + Gravedigger already gets you there if you're willing to fully devote your corpse candles to the job/give up so many pass tokens.

Then a critical question following that is whether you throw in more corpse synergies (in which case you need adequate generation), or you just make yourself content with that. Going hard on corpses could potentially look like:

• Reva + corpse candles
• The good doctor
• Grave golem/Emissary
• Bone pile
• Gravedigger
• Restless spirit

?

[dannydb]

just bring 2 mindless zombies?

[LeperColony]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Here's where I'm at so far:

 

Reva + Candles

Dr. McMourning

Toshiro w/ The Whisper

Asura Rotten

Restless Spirit

Gravedigger

4 stones

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

11 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

Thanks for the suggestions.  Here's where I'm at so far:

 

Reva + Candles

Dr. McMourning

Toshiro w/ The Whisper

Asura Rotten

Restless Spirit

Gravedigger

4 stones

 

Looks fun! Give it a go!

[Gloomy]

I usually make a Flesh Construct with Mcmourning on turn 1. Just bring a Grave digger and a mindless zombie. Grave digger will get you 2 corpses and the MZ is your third

Tip: Have the mindless zombie bite Mcmouning a couple of times first before he's used for the flesh construct. Can dish out 2-4 poison and only 2 damage which Mcm will easily heal

[Graf]

While I certainly haven't played McMourning, I have experience with summoning concepts in multiple different games (I always play Undead or Demon factions) and the underlining design concept are, at their core, the same.

First, you don't want to invest more resources than you get out of it. Maximal output with minimal input is the name of the game here. You know... capitalism. The most simple signifier for that is stone cost, but especially in a mission focused game like Malifaux that's not all, but for simplicity's sake I will refer to that. Details come later and usually must be decided spontanously at the table.

We have Reva + 2 Candles "for free". McMourning costs 16, luckily he also wrecks faces when he isn't summoning. When you manage to spawn 2 Flesh Constructs, he nearly would be for free. That's not gonna happen, just a thought for starting out. Reva can provide 2 corpses first turn and 1 each following turn. With the aim of one construct for the first two turns, we'll need one corpse turn #1 and two corpses turn #2. How can we get this with minimal cost? Grave spirit seems nice, because he's the cheapest option, but he doesn't provide enough corpses turn #2. But for only 2 additional points, we get a Grave Digger, who provides us with 3 corpses turn 1-2. That's enough for what we need and more turn #3+.So there is no reason atm to include even more corpse generation.

Invested resources: 16SS McMourning + 6SS Grave Digger +1 action to kill Candles +2 Grave  Digger action +1 summoning action + 1 bad condition on McMourning

Output: 14SS Flesh Constructs + 2 actions per turn per Construct

I've ignored summoning slow condition due to the Construct's bonus action, combined with turn 2 summoning and potential death, I think 2 actions are a handy average for their action output. I also ignore CCs, since them dying can be benefitial for the list but that's hard to quantify. So for 8SS we get 1 Construct turn #1, 2nd Construct and Grave Digger turn #2 and a McMourning turn #3. That's a lot if we can avoid to much confrontation until then, so it's a very SS/action economic list core, but for sure not a fast one. Usually we should start scoring turn two, but propably will have a hard time with that and have to compensate for that turn #3.

Since we already have  what we need, ANY additional investments into this will need to justify their existence in our list all on their own. Stuff that could synergize with that were already mentioned and I'll share some thoughts.

There will be corpse overspill at least starting with turn #3, so schemes which work with the Digger's Field of Corpses are good to take and generally also work with Reva's zone control power. What I'm not sure about... how much does Reva need those additional corpses turn #2+? It's fine if corpses just lay around when we have a fitting pool, but the Digger is a core choice, so we can't count on that. On this depend some choices I'll come to later.

Bone Pile: They can remove the quite sticky Distracted condition, best on turn #2. Their gun is decent for 6SS and also has a chance to spawn more corpses. It's also happy to have a little bit of corpse overspill to either heal itself or jump across the board. Would be a good pick imho.

Restless Spirit: As already said, not enough corpse generation on its own and unnecessary in combination. Doesn't provide enough other benefits to justify its price tag imho.

Toshiro: Nice addition to pump those minions up. I don't think his summoning should be considered more than occasional. Ashigaru are really nice defensively and decent with his Aura, but the real juice lies with Flesh Constructs. Having the option doesn't hurt though, in case to many corpses lie around. I guess he mostly is a question of "Can I afford another expensive model?", and he will be a regular, but not always pick.

Asura: More moving corpse markers, which can be handy but imho not essential here. She basically means more points in support roles, who rarely score or kill. While Flesh Constructs are great brawlers, who can double as schemers if the situation calls for it, Zombies are mostly just roadblocks. No significant schemeing (even though more than usual with Asura, still not good at it), no tankiness (3DF/WP, 3LP) and laughable damage. Combining with Toshiro to increase their offensive capability also isn't really viable, since it gets *really* expensive, they still won't be good damage dealers and Toshiro and Asura compete for stoning and crow cards for their summoning.

Dead Rider: Works well with Reva, as we already know. He's self-sufficient and therefore can be added anywhere. Doesn't care about corpse overspill, but can utilize it if he gets the chance. Solid pick in my viewpoint, only drawback is his price tag.

Shieldbearer: I would include at least one, maybe even two. The list is a bit vulnerable at the beginning of the game and they provide cover for our masters, but most importantly they can push them where they need to go without using a Master's actions. They are a staple for Reva and imho even more so here.

Grave Golem: Doesn't utilize corpses much if your opponent doesn't allow it, but has a hard time forcing it. Not enough game impact and to expensive, especially in combination with a 2nd master.

Emissary: Kind of similar to Toshiro, only he buffs speed instead of melee prowess, which can be handy for scoring. Looks more like a tec pick to me here, but a possible one. Never though in combination with another expensive bought model.

 

To conclude, here is my core:

Reva + 2 Corpse Candles 0

McMourning 16

Grave Digger 6

Shield Bearer 6

= 28SS, which leave 22 free

add one of the following options:

- Bone Pile 6 (especially if your enemy applies debuffs to you, but generally not a bad idea) + something not very expensive (e.g. Wanyudo or a Draugr), the Whisper for Reva, 7SS

- either Toshiro OR Emissary OR Dead Rider (OR Vincent if up against specific summoners) + something cheap, rest goes into stones

[Maniacal_cackle]

Great points Graf!

Also remember action efficiency. If you don't remove distracted from McMourning, he essentially loses two more actions working it off.

So a nurse or bone pile seems critical. Nurse has the added benefit of stacking poison, while bone pile offers small scoring potential (or big scoring potential if you can place schemes further up, like with emissary).

[LeperColony]

Toshiro and Asura don't actually compete for , because Toshiro isn't interested in the 4-9s and you'd never use a 10+ for a Mindless Zombie unless it meant scoring.  And Asura can order around the Flesh Counstructs. 

I could see swapping out the Graverobber for a Bone Pile.  To me, the Restless Spirit is a reliable corpse generator, and also good for providing Shielded to increase Reva's reach.  Since there aren't a lot of models that use Burning, and Corpse Candles/Mindless Zombies may be thin on the ground to make Flesh Constructs, Reva may find it a bit tougher than usual to find attacks.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

Toshiro and Asura don't actually compete for , because Toshiro isn't interested in the 4-9s and you'd never use a 10+ for a Mindless Zombie unless it meant scoring.

I could see swapping out the Graverobber for a Bone Pile.  To me, the Restless Spirit is a reliable corpse generator, and also good for providing Shielded to increase Reva's reach.  Since there aren't a lot of models that use Burning, and Corpse Candles/Mindless Zombies may be thin on the ground to make Flesh Constructs, Reva may find it a bit tougher than usual to find attacks.

The issue with using the restless spirit is it forces you to use four corpse candles. This will be a real pain for Reva on end of turn one, since she will have to start turn two next to a pyre marker.

Unless you have another corpse from something.

[LeperColony]

25 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The issue with using the restless spirit is it forces you to use four corpse candles. This will be a real pain for Reva on end of turn one, since she will have to start turn two next to a pyre marker.

Well, or a Mindless Zombie.  But yeah, that's why I was hoping for a model with Recent Funeral.  Hence the Gravedigger.  But I think @Graf makes a good point in that eventually it gets to be too much support.

The question is whether the Flesh Constructs, Ashigaru and McMourning can make the investment in resources pay off.  Maybe?!

[Graf]

1 hour ago, LeperColony said:

Toshiro and Asura don't actually compete for , because Toshiro isn't interested in the 4-9s and you'd never use a 10+ for a Mindless Zombie unless it meant scoring.  And Asura can order around the Flesh Counstructs. 

Good point regarding crow cards, the value difference makes it so they practically aren't competing in this regard. The other arguments against using both (especially stone cost) still stand imho. Ordering Flesh Constructs around could be nice, legit objection. I don't know if that's enough reason to include her. Maybe if interacting zombies can actually score in a given pool? Without that I still would not include her, so still a tec pick.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Another thing to consider- McMourning is one of our strongest tech pics for certain matchups.

A focused McMourning can two shot a valedictorian in a best case scenario.

So even if setting up two flesh constructs ends up being too demanding, one flesh construct + a focus pulse from a ritual could be very strong.

[Thatguy]

I've been thinking on a similar list with Nico. DMH be damned.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I'm super keen to get this list to work for Recover Evidence, but it is a struggle to get 5 models to hold the tokens.

I do like the idea of having McMourning + Flesh Constructs free of tokens.

Canine remains seems like a solid option for the 5th model due to some crew synergy anyway, but not sure.

Could just be better with a Kirai, but the combat ability of McMourning on a piece you can afford to sacrifice has a lot of appeal. EDIT: Not to mention McMourning doesn't need cards to summon!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Going against Titania for the first time in ages, and I'm bringing the Flesh Construct engine!

Flank public enemies

• Breakthrough
• Take prisoner
• Vendetta
• Let them bleed
• Leave your mark

My list:

• Reva
• McMourning
• Grave golem
• Shieldbearer
• Gravedigger
• Bone Pile

His list:

• Titania
• Killjoy
• Aeslin
• Mysterious Emissary
• Autumn Knight with ancient pact
• Autumn Knight with ancient pact

I don't want to go too hard on summoning, as Titania is prone to alpha striking and we have flank deployment, so it seems likely we will be engaged pretty quickly.

I'm thinking I should let him be the agressor though - the longer I have to setup my summoning engine, the better.

Tips welcome! Killjoy is going to be a major pain 😧

[Ogid]

6 models, 2 AP and Killjoy? Yes, odds are she will consider the agressive play the first turn. However there is no BBS nor Rougarou, she doesn't have IR and the list only has 4SS remaining; so she isn't going full alpha strike and has limited reach. Mind she doesn't have that much room to buy triggers and expend SS defensively. I think you should deploy conservatively in this one tho, specially as you have better scaling than her with the summoning strategy.

I like your list, double master is very good in this strat and McMourning ignore most of Fae defensive tech while having good sustain, really scary dude; and as NVB has a hard time denying demises, the golem is a good pick here. However there is a major flaw, you have very little to deal with their underbrushes (and rescue models stuck on these) and that can be a real problem for you.

Another thing to look for is killing Aeslin ASAP if you get the chance, this list is built around her. Titania picked both Killjoy and the Emissary, if they can set up both kind of terrain next to each other, make the underbrush Hazardous (something that Titania can do with her bonus action) and hit an into thorns trigger, that model will be in a world of pain (+3 damage). Titania, the Emissary and both knights can also trigger the Hazardous terrain with their attacks, but not as reliabily as Aeslin (KJ can do it also reliabily, but only with the hook and without controling the placement that well). Mind the terrain, it could be a death trap this game for you.

It's going to be an interesting game, tell us how it goes

[Maniacal_cackle]

Great points, @Ogid

Normally I play Molly, so the underbrush markers are trivial to useful for me. Will be interesting to see how it goes here.

Reva is unimpeded, and ordinarily I'd take the Dead Rider here, but I really can't afford to send pieces roaming solo which really negates Rider's utility.

So I think I'll just have to eat the movement penalties/spread out. Plus some of my models can teleport (McMourning, Bone Pile, kinda grave golem and corpse candles).

If I can reach the centre, it largely won't matter about the penalties anyway. But that's a big if!

I'll keep an eye out for killing Aeslin, but short of a lucky placement for Reva to attack her, seems like a long shot. Will report back!

[Trample]

On 8/12/2020 at 5:51 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Great points, @Ogid

Normally I play Molly, so the underbrush markers are trivial to useful for me. Will be interesting to see how it goes here.

Reva is unimpeded, and ordinarily I'd take the Dead Rider here, but I really can't afford to send pieces roaming solo which really negates Rider's utility.

So I think I'll just have to eat the movement penalties/spread out. Plus some of my models can teleport (McMourning, Bone Pile, kinda grave golem and corpse candles).

If I can reach the centre, it largely won't matter about the penalties anyway. But that's a big if!

I'll keep an eye out for killing Aeslin, but short of a lucky placement for Reva to attack her, seems like a long shot. Will report back!

How did the game go?

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 minutes ago, Trample said:

How did the game go?

We had to cancel but will try to reschedule!