Sabotage issue

[trikk]

At the beginning of the game choose a terrain piece within 3" of the enemy deployment zone.

 

So the issue is that we choose schemes pre-deployment so I don't know which terrains will be within 3" of the enemy deployment zone. The difficulty of this scheme is super dependant on the chosen deployment. What happens if there is no terrain eligable within range after we decide deployment zones? Am I missing something?

[solkan]

The order of events is

• H.  Choose Schemes
• I.  Deployment
• J.  Start of Game

Sabotage says "At the beginning of the game, secretly choose a terrain piece within 3" of the enemy Deployment Zone."

The only feasible thing to do is to resolve the "At the beginning of the game" phrase in Step J.  That also seems to be simply following instructions.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

You choose schemes after the board is setup. Board setup is like the first or second thing you do.

So this should never come up. Just wait to finalise schemes after you see the board (and technically crew too - if you see tons of severe terrain, you may want a lot of unimpeded).

[Adran]

24 minutes ago, trikk said:

At the beginning of the game choose a terrain piece within 3" of the enemy deployment zone.

 

So the issue is that we choose schemes pre-deployment so I don't know which terrains will be within 3" of the enemy deployment zone. The difficulty of this scheme is super dependant on the chosen deployment. What happens if there is no terrain eligable within range after we decide deployment zones? Am I missing something?

The best I can say is you need to consider those options when you choose the scheme. If you're the defender, and only 1 side has a good choice for sabotage, then it might be best if you don't pick it.

That said, a board that doesn't have any terrain within 3" of a deployment zone is probably going to have other issues.

[trikk]

4 minutes ago, Adran said:

The best I can say is you need to consider those options when you choose the scheme. If you're the defender, and only 1 side has a good choice for sabotage, then it might be best if you don't pick it.

That said, a board that doesn't have any terrain within 3" of a deployment zone is probably going to have other issues.

The wording for Sabotage is the same for Vendetta etc. Theorethically I choose scheme specific data  (step G) etc pre-deployment (step I) so how can I pick a terrain piece when the deployment zones are not yet set up? 

Either the scheme should say "After deployment zones are set up choose a terrain piece...." instead of "a the beginning of the game"  (best option) OR choosing schemes should be post-deployment zone  (worst option)

[Maniacal_cackle]

Huh, this is an interesting point. The rules are broken, there's no solution within the rules I think.

But in practice, just pick deployment zones right before you choose schemes and it should be fine. That's how I have always played anyway (but is an interesting oversight and probably needs errata, as it actually makes a big difference for a number of decisions you want to make).

[trikk]

1 minute ago, solkan said:

The order of events is

• H.  Choose Schemes
• I.  Deployment
• J.  Start of Game

Sabotage says "At the beginning of the game, secretly choose a terrain piece within 3" of the enemy Deployment Zone."

The only feasible thing to do is to resolve the "At the beginning of the game" phrase in Step J.  That also seems to be simply following instructions.

 

I thought so too, but all schemes have the "At the beginning of the game" wording. Hidden Martyrs, Vendetta etc.

And step H says that you pick all additional info with schemes. I believe even the app forces you to pick it with schemes

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, trikk said:

I thought so too, but all schemes have the "At the beginning of the game" wording. Hidden Martyrs, Vendetta etc.

And step H says that you pick all additional info with schemes. I believe even the app forces you to pick it with schemes

It would also give an unintended advantage for the scheme (for example, on standard deployment if your opponent deploys entirely on the right flank, you can pick a piece of terrain on the left flank).

For my games, we separate out the choosing sides very early as a practical step (no sense getting out all your models on one side of the table, and then swapping sides). So we pick deployment zones right after flipping for attacker/defender.

[trikk]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

It would also give an unintended advantage for the scheme (for example, on standard deployment if your opponent deploys entirely on the right flank, you can pick a piece of terrain on the left flank).

For my games, we separate out the choosing sides very early as a practical step (no sense getting out all your models on one side of the table, and then swapping sides). So we pick deployment zones right after flipping for attacker/defender.

I know theres a few ways to fix it in local games but a unified solution would be welcome

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, trikk said:

I know theres a few ways to fix it in local games but a unified solution would be welcome

For sure, but there's no summer errata, so will be another several months at least.

But I believe they do read the forums, so hopefully this is flagged up for when they do issue fixes.

[trikk]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

For sure, but there's no summer errata, so will be another several months at least.

But I believe they do read the forums, so hopefully this is flagged up for when they do issue fixes.

I think the lack of errata (which "fixes models") doesn`t mean a lack of faq to answer some questions

[Jesy Blue]

They actually discussed NOT having constant errata/faq's in yesterdays Q&A, so I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

[trikk]

38 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

They actually discussed NOT having constant errata/faq's in yesterdays Q&A, so I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

I don't think cleraring up issues/questions is the same model changing.  While I certainly don't expect model changing, a FAQ is always welcome.