Lowest Mental Effort? - Master Rankings

[Bazlord_Prime]

Hey all,

Got a tournament coming up in a month, and I haven't gotten a lot of practice in M3e (played a fair bit of M2e tho). I have a chronic fatigue condition that makes long periods of attention and mental acuity pretty draining, so I was wondering what Masters/Keywords you all think might be the least taxing? I'm not too worried about being competitive - as long as I have fun, and am not completely knackered by the end of game 2, I'll be happy 🙂

For the record, here's a list of the Keywords/crews I own and can field at this tourny, so I'm mostly after your opinions on these ones. As an example of what I find draining, Wong is right up there. I'm finding his Glowy mechanic quite confusing, and it requires a lot of bookkeeping, so crews with a simpler shtick would be better for me at this stage.

Thanks in advance!

BAYOU
- Wong (Wizz Bang)
- Brewmaster (Tri Chi)
- Zoraida (Swampfiend)
- Ulix (Sooey, Pig)
- Zipp (Infamous)
- Som'er (Big Hat)

GUILD 
- Sonnia (Witch Hunter)
- Dashel (Guard)
- Hoffman (Augmented)

OUTCASTS
- Zipp (Infamous)
- Von Schill (Freikorps)

[Jesy Blue]

I'd rule out Tri-Chi & Witch Hunters off the top.... condition markers are a maddening bookkeeping, especially since it would be your own models AND enemy models.

Sooey, Big Hat, & Guard are summoning keywords so next highest complication in vast numbers of activation control.

If your Swampfiend is built around all the Obey Actions where everyone is chain Obeying across the table, that's the next mentally taxing.

Augmented has its own Power Tokens to keep track of, but that's rather simple, so next complicated.

That leaves Freikorps, Outcast Infamous, Bayou Infamous, and non-Obey centric Swampfiend on an equal playing ground.... in my opinion.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Whatever you take, an 'elite' crew may help.

For example in Ressers you could take Molly +3-4 beaters + a minion for scheming and then you don't have to keep track of as many things.

A crew with master + 1 beater + 8 minions for example is going to get taxing.

EDIT: I also recommend sticking to one 'core' and keep roughly the same list each time. It will be much easier to remember model abilities.

Also I have ADHD, so can totally relate to the mental fatigue. Hope the games go well!

EDIT2: if possible, take a proactive game plan instead of a reactive one so you don't have to learn your enemy's crew.

For example, if taking Zoraida, have solid obey targets on your side of the table. This way you don't have to worry about obeying the enemy as much.

EDIT3: if possible, play a crew with a consistent first turn and get practiced at it. In Ressers, Reva, McMourning, and Von Schtook for example have consistent turn 1s, while someone like Molly with her reactive playstyle has different turn 1s for every game.

[Adran]

From your list I would say the following crews have the potential for a lot of book keeping/ choices

Tri Chi (poison Tracking), Big Hat(Multiple auras and Summoning), Sooey (summoning), Witch Hunter (Conditions), Guard (summoning, potentially aura positioning).

Possible complicated Keywords

Swampfiend (Aura positioning, Obey) Augmented ( Aura positioning, but it seems to be largely turn 1) Friekorps (Auras, Upgrades) Infamous (highly mobile)

 

It depends on exactly what you find taxing, and how you play, but I would have though Friekorps are probably the easiest to play in a non taxing form, although taking into account Maniacal Cackles points about first turn plans, Augemented are probably also doable. Power tokens are a little tracking, but most of the time they are just little soulstones, so possibly not too much.  I also think both keywords are fairly forgiving to minor mistakes thanks to armour and healing, which could help reduce game effects of mental fatigue.

 

Infamous can be fine, but mobile lists have the risk of falling apart if you make a misplay and leave your mobile model at risk, which you might find extra taxing at the end of a long day.

Swampfiends have Obey which is a mental drain all on its own. There is also penetrating stench for you to remember, which might get taxing.

 

 

[Paddywhack]

Freikorps is probably the most straightforward of the ones you listed. I don't think Dashel is that complicated, but there can be more moving parts and support models. Could go elite heavy with him though and summon only when really needed. I don't know Bayou that well, but they all seem pretty tricky to play imo.  

[Bazlord_Prime]

11 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

Freikorps is probably the most straightforward of the ones you listed. I don't think Dashel is that complicated, but there can be more moving parts and support models. Could go elite heavy with him though and summon only when really needed. I don't know Bayou that well, but they all seem pretty tricky to play imo.  

Thanks for all the advice, everyone!

Yeah, I remember playing M2e Lucius and finding the overlapping effects from Dashel, Queeg, Sergeants and the Riflemen being a bit of a hassle for me. Never got the hang of who was doing what, so it really slowed down my play. I haven't really looked, but I imagine that in M3e, Dashel's crew hasn't moved too far away from that shtick.

19 hours ago, Adran said:

Swampfiends have Obey which is a mental drain all on its own. There is also penetrating stench for you to remember, which might get taxing.

The only main M3e experience I have so far is a tournament late last year, and I used Brewmaster for that, with Zoraida as a second Master. I found that okay to use, but it did drain me a bit, and I think I was really using Z and Whiskey Golem the most out of all of the models! I really like Z's Obeys, but I found a couple of times that I was essentially doing 7 Actions in her 1 activation, due to her Obeying (with double Masks), 2 of my beaters into getting 2 Actions each, so at that point I was feeling bad for my opponent who was more or less sitting there watching me play with myself for half an hour (I also need to speed up my play, of course...). And yeah - I have NEVER remembered Penetrating Stench, so I'm sure I'm not getting the most out of my models, most of the time!

In terms of what I find the most taxing, I think it's the constant re-reading of cards in order to make sure I'm getting the rules right. So a crew with fairly consistent Abilities and Actions would be best. Probably puts Freikorps (and possibly the Viks, who I could borrow from a friend) into first place.

On 7/27/2020 at 1:15 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Whatever you take, an 'elite' crew may help.

EDIT: I also recommend sticking to one 'core' and keep roughly the same list each time. It will be much easier to remember model abilities.

Also I have ADHD, so can totally relate to the mental fatigue. Hope the games go well!

EDIT2: if possible, take a proactive game plan instead of a reactive one so you don't have to learn your enemy's crew.

For example, if taking Zoraida, have solid obey targets on your side of the table. This way you don't have to worry about obeying the enemy as much.

EDIT3: if possible, play a crew with a consistent first turn and get practiced at it. In Ressers, Reva, McMourning, and Von Schtook for example have consistent turn 1s, while someone like Molly with her reactive playstyle has different turn 1s for every game.

That all sounds like excellent advice. I could take an elite Zoraida crew, for instance, form a solid plan, and Obey my own big beaters into carrying it out. Your point about having a 1st turn plan, really resonates for me in terms of Deployment. I can experience significant confusion, indecision and stress when I'm suddenly faced with having to decide where to put all my models, how their Abilities etc are going to interact in the 3D of the gaming table (with terrain, etc), rather than just the 2D of the theory-crafting space, and then knowing what Activation order and Actions I ought to do. So that point about having a crew with a fairly well mapped-out 1st Turn sounds like it somewhat addresses that. I gather that Wong for instance has a fairly consistent 1st Turn - cluster everyone around him, and do "The Glow", followed by a bunch of "Fzzzzap!" Attacks on your own models to load Glowy. I just don't dig those overly excessive "Playing with yourself" metagame styles at the moment, so I might steer clear of the Wong-esque crews and see which ones offer me some kind of rails for setup and deployment, without really needing to sit there flipping against just myself for the first turn. Freikorps should offer that a bit, although I guess the Equipment upgrades would all require simple duels anyway. Hmmm...

On 7/27/2020 at 12:52 PM, Jesy Blue said:

I'd rule out Tri-Chi & Witch Hunters off the top.... condition markers are a maddening bookkeeping, especially since it would be your own models AND enemy models.

Sooey, Big Hat, & Guard are summoning keywords so next highest complication in vast numbers of activation control.

If your Swampfiend is built around all the Obey Actions where everyone is chain Obeying across the table, that's the next mentally taxing.

Augmented has its own Power Tokens to keep track of, but that's rather simple, so next complicated.

That leaves Freikorps, Outcast Infamous, Bayou Infamous, and non-Obey centric Swampfiend on an equal playing ground.... in my opinion.

Thanks @Jesy Blue. Yeah, I have found the Poison upkeep occasionally difficult, and you're right - it's mostly been a pain in the a*#e for my opponents, since they take on the bookkeeping of it on their own models. Still slows the game down, especially since it ticks down each End Phase. And I always feel under pressure at the beginning of each round to consider who in my crew needs more Poison again, how to get it there, etc. 

 I was starting to gravitate towards Freikorps, Infamous and Swampfiend anyway, actually. I could live with non-Obey Zoraida, but I think I might even find it easier to run her with a couple big beaters, and have her Obeying them, than to get mixed up in the (admittedly cool, but pretty mind-bending) Voodoo Doll shenanigans. By non-Obey Swampfiend, do you mean to have Z concentrate more on just Hex, and Threads of Fate? Per @Adran's point, I find remembering persistent Abilities etc like Penetrating Stench and Poisoned Fate to be a bit much (tend to forget them, then remember them, then get down on myself for having forgotten them, so... might be an idea to either stay away from crews with those things, or just willfully ignore them).

Anyway, will try out the Freikorps tomorrow night and see how they fit. It might be Outcast O'clock for me 😉 Thanks again everyone for taking the time to help me out!

[Bazlord_Prime]

Now - about Ulix. I've only skim-read his crew's cards, and I don't see any Summoning other than his Grow Up Strong action. Is there something else? Because if I just kind of ignore that, then the only Summoning I have to worry about with him, is the placement of Piglets whenever another Pig dies (or if The Sow uses "Birth"). I *think* I can handle that. Maybe. I'm just considering him, because for the most part, all of the Pigs have very similar Abilities, Attacks, Triggers and purposes, so it seems like it might be a fairly straightforward crew to learn.

Or is foregoing Ulix's growth-list potential really just handicapping the whole shtick? 

EDIT: Okay, just realised that the Hog Whisperer & Slop Hauler can both summon Piglets. 

[Jesy Blue]

1 hour ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

Thanks @Jesy Blue. Yeah, I have found the Poison upkeep occasionally difficult, and you're right - it's mostly been a pain in the a*#e for my opponents, since they take on the bookkeeping of it on their own models. Still slows the game down, especially since it ticks down each End Phase. And I always feel under pressure at the beginning of each round to consider who in my crew needs more Poison again, how to get it there, etc. 

 I was starting to gravitate towards Freikorps, Infamous and Swampfiend anyway, actually. I could live with non-Obey Zoraida, but I think I might even find it easier to run her with a couple big beaters, and have her Obeying them, than to get mixed up in the (admittedly cool, but pretty mind-bending) Voodoo Doll shenanigans. By non-Obey Swampfiend, do you mean to have Z concentrate more on just Hex, and Threads of Fate? Per @Adran's point, I find remembering persistent Abilities etc like Penetrating Stench and Poisoned Fate to be a bit much (tend to forget them, then remember them, then get down on myself for having forgotten them, so... might be an idea to either stay away from crews with those things, or just willfully ignore them).

What I meant by Obey Swampfiend is taking Bokur & Criers, & Old Cranky, and Obey the beater, then Obey another model to Obey the beater, then Obey another another model to Obey the beater.  Basically every action is the beater does something. 

Non-Obey centric is god litterally anything else!  ....... I may have a littke ptsd about that build.

 

But yeah, Freikorps!!  Love them!

[trikk]

For Guild it's definitely Dashel as the easiest. You don't have a lot of tracking to do. You play in theme, so you don't have a mix of abilities. The crew has synergies but they re mostly passive

[Adran]

4 hours ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

Now - about Ulix. I've only skim-read his crew's cards, and I don't see any Summoning other than his Grow Up Strong action. Is there something else? Because if I just kind of ignore that, then the only Summoning I have to worry about with him, is the placement of Piglets whenever another Pig dies (or if The Sow uses "Birth"). I *think* I can handle that. Maybe. I'm just considering him, because for the most part, all of the Pigs have very similar Abilities, Attacks, Triggers and purposes, so it seems like it might be a fairly straightforward crew to learn.

Or is foregoing Ulix's growth-list potential really just handicapping the whole shtick? 

EDIT: Okay, just realised that the Hog Whisperer & Slop Hauler can both summon Piglets. 

You might find that Ulix isn't too tough mentally, because, as you say, the pigs largely do the same thing, just better as they get bigger. You may find that the fact they have to declare triggers on the attack makes you spend a bit more time thinking about cheating and working how bad the current trigger is. Or you may not and just be happy to go with the flow.

As you say it is really only 1 type of summon, and then Ulix has a fairly simple "improve them" action. The set up isn't too hard,  and you can create fire and forget missiles fairly easily.

The down side is that there are a wide range of pigs that all do slightly different things. So you will need to get used to the difference between a war pig and a wild boar, and probably most complicated Squeeler and piglet, when you realise that the squeeler can't truffles or the piglet has a lower df and attack, and the triggers are a little bit different.  This may be easily solved by how you paint them, as my Wild boar look nothing like my War pigs, but I haven't picked up any Squeelers yet so I don't know how similar they look to piglets.

[trikk]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

, but I haven't picked up any Squeelers yet so I don't know how similar they look to piglets.

They look like Piglets met Mad Max: Fury Road.

They also have gramophones on their backs 😛

[Bazlord_Prime]

12 hours ago, Adran said:

The down side is that there are a wide range of pigs that all do slightly different things. So you will need to get used to the difference between a war pig and a wild boar, and probably most complicated Squeeler and piglet ... but I haven't picked up any Squeelers yet so I don't know how similar they look to piglets.

Same here - don't have any Squeelers, but I have all the others, and am familiar enough with how they look from M2e to not be a problem. I'm just going to try out Ulix as though Squeelers don't exist, which will impact the grow mechanic a bit (but that won't be my focus anyway in the first games), and see how that goes. Have been eyeing up a Ulix = scheme runner idea by pairing him with a Rooster Rider for up to 21" movement per turn, but that may or may not work out 🙂

Biggest differences I've noticed are that Boars are now ~similar to Piglets & War Pigs, whereas in M2e they were quite different, and the odd one out. And Piglets no longer have that Small Target debuff, so it'll be easier for the opponent to shoot them down. 

Not sure now whether I'll try Ulix or Freikorps tonight, but will let you know how I go, anyway.

[Bazlord_Prime]

22 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

What I meant by Obey Swampfiend is taking Bokur & Criers, & Old Cranky, and Obey the beater, then Obey another model to Obey the beater, then Obey another another model to Obey the beater.  Basically every action is the beater does something. 

But yeah, Freikorps!!  Love them!

Oh no! Yikes - no, that's a few too many moving parts / self-playey for me! I think I'd prefer to go 2-3 big beaters, and just let Z obey them once each. Provide some redundancy that way, but have fewer models I'm sure.

Anyway, Freikorps is one crew I've always liked the look of, so it might be time to dip the toes in and see whether I like them. @Jesy Blue any wisdom on OOK models for them? I was looking around for any sneaky Constructs for Lazarus to assimilate, but there doesn't seem to be anything sneaky enough to make it worthwhile. Oh - except for Rusty Alyce, of course...

[Jesy Blue]

Hodgepodge Emissary is always a good pick.  Trinkets with Equipment means everyone gets an upgrade, plus adding soul stones for killing.

If you're going gun line, Hans is always a nice add in.

I've been a fan of Scavengers (Amalgam Minion) for their super useful Weird Device.

 

I'm personally not a huge fan of Lazarus, but a guy I know loves him, these are the things he used to Assimilate:

Marlena Webster's Entropic Withering attack, Hodgepodge Effigy's heal action, & the Draw Essence action on most Amalgam constructs.

[Bazlord_Prime]

So I've had 1 game with Ulix since posting all the above, and 1 game with the Freikorps. 

With Ulix, I went up against Marcus, and we were both highly inexperienced with our Masters (my local group is 4 players who own far too many Masters and switch between them after just a game or two, and 1 player who is sensible and tries to get 10-20 games in with a single Master to actually unlock it before trying another). 

Anyway, found Ulix to be kinda "Meh" fun-wise, and I just kept tripping up over all the 50mm bases. Not really into pigs as a theme either, but I'll keep an eye on the War Pig for my Zoraida crew... 😉

The Freikorps, on the other hand, were great! Really enjoyed them, didn't find them nearly as taxing as most of the other crews I've tried, and I even felt like I was using some of the proper interactions and Abilities on them. Score!

[trikk]

Glad you found something that suits your needs :)! 

[Bazlord_Prime]

So I figure that necro-ing my own thread is okay...

What do you all think might be the least mentally-taxing Masters in the ENTIRE game? (Good info for me to consider future purchases, as well as for any newer players or players with energy/focus issues like me 😉)

Especially since we now have the alternative Master Titles...

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Still loving the Freikorps, have had an okay experience with Hamelin (not focussing on Rat summoning tho), and loving Zoraida obeying the Whiskey Golem 

[SEV]

Titania 1 is by far the easiest master to play in Neverborn and she has a strong claim for the whole game. Resilient, minimal book keeping, can be play in a straightforward way and works well with an elite crew (less model = less brainpower).

Bonus :I think she's quite good and has a relatively high ceiling. It's still Faux though the game is about positioning and hand management (for me this is what the most brainpower, no matter the master).