Improving The Other Side

[JamesFlames]

I've really enjoyed the games that I've played but the game has stagnated since release. The two-player starter set with the ToS/M3E crossover could really change this by spreading the game amongst M3E players. 

I'm hoping that we get an update on this, as Q4 was the announced release for the set. 

[Clockworkpirate]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:32 AM, Saduhem said:

I actually don't mind the material. It's bullet proof and maintains a lot of detail.

Just wish I could keep the Alpha Crawler a little more vertical. I'm sure I'll find a way to make that happen :} (Open to suggestions btw!)

 

 

 

 

This is mine unfinished yet, its pinned up with some reinforced bar coming out of the ruins. 

[Saduhem]

On 10/13/2020 at 3:16 AM, Clockworkpirate said:

This is mine unfinished yet, its pinned up with some reinforced bar coming out of the ruins. 

Seems like a great solution and looks fantastic! Thanks!

[dalezzz]

For me they need to sort that bendy plastic , I don’t like it One bit .

 

Some crossover stuff would be an excellent idea too , it’s pretty much wryds go to tactic in Malifaux the way they try and tempt you into other factions .... well it works on me and a lot of other people for that game , it will work here too

[Rathnard]

2 hours ago, dalezzz said:

For me they need to sort that bendy plastic , I don’t like it One bit .

 

Some crossover stuff would be an excellent idea too , it’s pretty much wryds go to tactic in Malifaux the way they try and tempt you into other factions .... well it works on me and a lot of other people for that game , it will work here too

So here's an interesting question - has anyone got both TOS models and the recent Halloween Pandora release (which are also pre-assembled IIRC)? I'm actually very curious to know how the material they've used for that alt crew compares to the TOS sculpts and by extension, how much it's advanced since TOS's initial run? 

Actually, damn...I might need to buy that box just to see it for myself.

 

As for crossover stuff, I've said it before and I'll say it again - Wyrd should be including crossover models at every opportunity. It just feels like a no-brainer to me to (for instance) include both Malifaux and TOS stat cards for certain releases that can feasibly pass for a given unit in both systems. 

[JamesFlames]

I have the Witches and Woes set. The plastic is considerably more rigid than the ToS minis, but still feels durable. I've no idea about how the production works, but if you could get ToS minis made of the same plastic as the Pandora set, that would probably solve most of the problems that we have had with bendy models.

[Rathnard]

3 hours ago, JamesFlames said:

I have the Witches and Woes set. The plastic is considerably more rigid than the ToS minis, but still feels durable. I've no idea about how the production works, but if you could get ToS minis made of the same plastic as the Pandora set, that would probably solve most of the problems that we have had with bendy models.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that this is exactly what Wyrd has been planning. I suspect the Witches & Woes box was a trial run for the new plastic, both to test their revised manufacturing techniques at a "full production" scale (I don't know the terminology ) and to see how the player base responds to the new material. Assuming it's gone well, Wyrd would then go ahead and use this improved plastic to make future TOS releases. 

Naturally I don't know anything about what Wyrd does behind closed doors, especially when it comes to production. So it should go without saying that this is all just guesswork on my part, based purely on what makes sense to me!

[Omenbringer]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:15 AM, Rathnard said:

If I were a betting man, I'd say that this is exactly what Wyrd has been planning. I suspect the Witches & Woes box was a trial run for the new plastic, both to test their revised manufacturing techniques at a "full production" scale (I don't know the terminology ) and to see how the player base responds to the new material. Assuming it's gone well, Wyrd would then go ahead and use this improved plastic to make future TOS releases. 

Naturally I don't know anything about what Wyrd does behind closed doors, especially when it comes to production. So it should go without saying that this is all just guesswork on my part, based purely on what makes sense to me!

I tend to agree. Wyrd has used the Alt and Special Models previously to test out new production methods. Aionus was one of the first I believe.

But in regards to The Other Side...well I think the biggest thing it needs is a proper Grand release (one which puts the spotlight completely on it). The game never really received the big GenCon (or other Con) hoopla like Malifaux has. Although I give mad credit to Wyrd for deciding to hold off on the TOS release until after the kickstarter backers received their product (very noble), I can't help but feel it really hampered the roll out. And while this Grand rollout was probably planned for the following GenCon, Malifaux 3rd edition stole the spot light (I sort of got the feeling that 3rd edition was spoiled before it was ready to be announced). I would love to see the range expanded beyond what it is though and I think that would be a great time to give the full GenCon Treatment.

As for cross over products, which I am usually a huge fan of, I don't seeing it working as well between Malifaux and TOS. The scales are too different. What works well in one tends to either severely over or underwhelm in the other due to intended model counts. The original Wild West Exodus is a pretty good example of this.

[Rathnard]

8 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

I tend to agree. Wyrd has used the Alt and Special Models previously to test out new production methods. Aionus was one of the first I believe.

But in regards to The Other Side...well I think the biggest thing it needs is a proper Grand release (one which puts the spotlight completely on it). The game never really received the big GenCon (or other Con) hoopla like Malifaux has. Although I give mad credit to Wyrd for deciding to hold off on the TOS release until after the kickstarter backers received their product (very noble), I can't help but feel it really hampered the roll out. And while this Grand rollout was probably planned for the following GenCon, Malifaux 3rd edition stole the spot light (I sort of got the feeling that 3rd edition was spoiled before it was ready to be announced). I would love to see the range expanded beyond what it is though and I think that would be a great time to give the full GenCon Treatment.

As for cross over products, which I am usually a huge fan of, I don't seeing it working as well between Malifaux and TOS. The scales are too different. What works well in one tends to either severely over or underwhelm in the other due to intended model counts. The original Wild West Exodus is a pretty good example of this.

Yep, IIRC Aionis was the first pre-assembled mini, just like Lazarus was Wyrd's first plastic mini (with translucent rubber piping and posable action-man arms... something they thankfully dropped for later plastic releases!). 

TOS has definitely been crowded out somewhat by Malifaux and M3E in particular. But I think it's a bit of a myth that the M3E announcement was rushed thanks to early spoilers. The spoiler in question was the M3E website about 2-3 weeks before Gencon itself... but surely you don't design and... importantly... upload a website for something you're not planning to announce for months? TBH I think Wyrd fully intended to announce M3E during that Gencon, and the spoiler just moved their online announcement to 1-2 weeks before Gencon, instead of coinciding with the event itself.

In any case, I think we can all agree that TOS would really benefit from a full, dedicated relaunch.

For crossovers, I'm thinking mostly in terms of models being able to proxy for other, existing units in each game system. For instance using Datsue-ba as a proxy for Binh Nguyen, Guild Riflemen as KE Sharpshooters, Mehal Sefari as Shastar Vidya Guard or Warped as Illuminated. I feel like that kind of thing - encouraging crossover without specifically messing with the rules, could be a real boon for both games. 

[Omenbringer]

12 hours ago, Rathnard said:

For crossovers, I'm thinking mostly in terms of models being able to proxy for other, existing units in each game system. For instance using Datsue-ba as a proxy for Binh Nguyen, Guild Riflemen as KE Sharpshooters, Mehal Sefari as Shastar Vidya Guard or Warped as Illuminated. I feel like that kind of thing - encouraging crossover without specifically messing with the rules, could be a real boon for both games. 

"Proxy" models would be a very easy inclusion.

As for the M3e rollout...well from what I recall historically it didn't fit the trend with previous announcements.

[JamesFlames]

In case anyone hasn't seen it, Kyle responded to a question on a ToS Facebook page a couple of months ago saying:

 

To clear some confusion: during our Gen Con live stream (which you can find on our YouTube channel), we stated that we are hoping that the TOS Starter can act as a way to revitalize the game, so its launch window is very important. Clearly, we'd like to release it as soon as we are able, but with the way that the world is right now, it does not make sense for us to release it when there are not a lot of players able to play (with playing at local stores not being the safest thing to do at the moment). We have never stated that the TOS Starter box will be a Kickstarter, and we have no plans to take that direction at this time. The TOS Starter box will include Kirai and Sonnia, among other new TOS characters, and will also include M3E Stat Cards for those characters to play in Malifaux as well. We will have plenty more info once we get closer to a release window that makes sense. 

 

I thought I'd mention it because it covers a few of the subjects under discussion. I'm quite reassured by this statement as it shows that a "Soft Reboot" is planned. I think that the crossover models are a great idea too, because a lot of M3E players will end up getting the set for M3E, but will hopefully have a go at ToS. It sounds like a good plan to me.

[motoSashi]

The quote from Kyle makes totally sense - but i think it takes more than just wait for the right moment. I invested a lot of money and time into TOS so far because i think it is an awesome game with great miniatures but looking at the market right now i think WYRD misses a big opportunity in really celebrating their product. Starting just with showing off their miniatures on the back of the box (which is the normal online shop image) as lifeless renderings without shadow, color or any love. Next  in my opinion is showing via social media how the models look painted/in terrain. The sculpts are awesome but with the lack of presence  they will never really shine outside wyrd painting forums. You need to do more than just put out renderings into the market in this day and age. You need to show people how it is played (batreps) - after the kickstarter introduction video. 

Our hobby is about theme and commitment to a product so i really think it is not that much about the right time - it is more about presentation - to launch a product like TOS. (just a personal thing - but i spend a lot of hobby money during CORONA) Like i said, i bought into most of the product range, because i spend a lot of time in the nerd abyss and realized that this game is interesting. But at the moment every german shop carrying it, starts to sale the shit out of it because it seems like not taking of. And getting buddies into TOS is hard because of the lack of presence atm.

And no communication outside of mention it in a YT video doesn't help that.

i think teasing the future products and showing that TOS isn't dead would help more that beeing 2 years nearly quiet and hoping for another reboot.

Show us painted models, show us different terrain options , show us how the game is played. And show us the future. An i think TOS will take of.

 

Just my two cents i have in my head for a few weeks. I love the game love the company - but i think it takes more than just the right point of time in these days to refuel TOS.

 

Love you all

 

stay save.

[Omenbringer]

Well the community I have cultivated as a Henchman has decided to do our part. Several have just placed orders for TOS Allegiance boxes with our LGS.

I have some ideas on how we are going to build the excitement locally and that may just include some crossover opportunities with not just Malifaux but also TTB. I am fortunate to have a really receptive community that is willing to try new things.

[dope_danny]

I think its too late in my area. Not only did Corona kill most actual tabletop activity in general in the last year everyone i know that bought in have binned their TOS minis. Not shelved. Not resold. They threw them away in the trash because they thought it was simply a case of "it tried, it didn't get a market, its a shame but i need the space and will not play this again" and that sucks but even if Corona didn't happen post release has always felt like the sentiment from Wyrd was "you do the work, word of mouth the product for us" to a degree that you just don't see with Malifaux.

 

I hope it does pick up but right now it looks like Wyrd thinks cross over rules for Malifaux will draw people in as though it wasn't mostly the Malifaux audience who bought all the product already. There is probably some Malifaux players who didn't buy in who might be more tempted but if this was done at release it wouldn't now have the added struggle of "i heard this game flopped/is dead" to put off those people. Is there a significant audience who had no interest and never bought into Malifaux who will pick this game over 40k, Age of Sigmar or hell even Warmachine or some other established wargame? Time will tell but if even the most positive outlooks are "i'm going to have to do the legwork and push it myself hard" its going to be an uphill struggle.

[OssumPawesome]

2 hours ago, dope_danny said:

I think its too late in my area. Not only did Corona kill most actual tabletop activity in general in the last year everyone i know that bought in have binned their TOS minis. Not shelved. Not resold. They threw them away in the trash because they thought it was simply a case of "it tried, it didn't get a market, its a shame but i need the space and will not play this again" and that sucks but even if Corona didn't happen post release has always felt like the sentiment from Wyrd was "you do the work, word of mouth the product for us" to a degree that you just don't see with Malifaux.

 

I hope it does pick up but right now it looks like Wyrd thinks cross over rules for Malifaux will draw people in as though it wasn't mostly the Malifaux audience who bought all the product already. There is probably some Malifaux players who didn't buy in who might be more tempted but if this was done at release it wouldn't now have the added struggle of "i heard this game flopped/is dead" to put off those people. Is there a significant audience who had no interest and never bought into Malifaux who will pick this game over 40k, Age of Sigmar or hell even Warmachine or some other established wargame? Time will tell but if even the most positive outlooks are "i'm going to have to do the legwork and push it myself hard" its going to be an uphill struggle.

I get what you're saying, but at some point the community does have to do some work, even if it's just through word of mouth. It sucks, but I can hardly blame Wyrd for putting their eggs in the Malifaux basket currently. Even if it's just a couple of dedicated people, the magic of the Internet can amplify the word and get people in other areas interested, making it more profitable and thus much more likely that the game will continue. Think of it not as advertising, think of it as getting in on the ground floor of the next big thing.

[motoSashi]

I am more than happy to do some community work - but at the moment I don't feel good about getting my friends/ other people into a game where the developer kept silence about for that long period. TOS is a big investment and with no backup from WYRD I am not confident evangelize the system to other people. 

I still love TOS, but please WYRD, give us something!

[Merchant]

On 1/29/2021 at 5:37 PM, motoSashi said:

I am more than happy to do some community work - but at the moment I don't feel good about getting my friends/ other people into a game where the developer kept silence about for that long period. TOS is a big investment and with no backup from WYRD I am not confident evangelize the system to other people. 

I still love TOS, but please WYRD, give us something!

This is exactly why I dont push this game. despite loving it, malifaux and TTB to pieces, I cant help but to have grown bitter to how wyrd deals with their properties. As it stands, there is 5 factions to be released including  the guild and Co2. On the other hand Malifaux is getting an 8th faction and they havent even finished releasing all of m3e's current lists. All that being said it's hard enough to find a retailer who will support any wyrd products as well. Most come from online orders out here.

[CaladanCid]

So I have been very outspoken about how the model quality in TOS is not good, and led to me leaving the game.

 

Because of that I wanted to make sure I posted here to say they have really made an effort to fix the issue.  The quality of the models in the two player starter is EXCELLENT.  I am incredibly excited that Wyrd has listened (or maybe was always going to change, either way) and has taken steps to fix a huge issue.

Glad to be back in the game, looking forward to supporting the game for quite a while to come!