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Ressers community pool 4: Wedge Recover Evidence!


Which master would you take into this pool?  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. Which master would you take into this pool?

    • Dr. McMourning
      2
    • Jack Daw
      3
    • Kirai Ankoku
      3
    • Molly Squidpiddge
      4
    • Nicodem
      0
    • Professor Von Schtook
      3
    • Reva Cortinas
      5
    • Seamus
      6
    • Yan Lo
      3


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This week, we have a special request from @Daysleeper for a pool. Always good to see people engaging with the content, so thanks Daysleeper for stepping up!

This thread is for all ressers: master and newbie alike! In this thread we'll all come together to discuss a scheme pool. Ideally some of us will even get to play it!

Pool 4: Wedge Recover Evidence

  • Recover Evidence - Wedge Deployment
    • Runic Binding
    • Spread them out
    • Vendetta
    • Take Prisoner
    • Research Mission

How to participate:

Just post! You can post theorycraft about what master or list you'd take into this pool, or you can post a list you want to take into this pool seeking advice, or a battle report of actually playing the pool.

If you're not confident posting, I'll slap some templates here that you can steal to make a reply. These are just suggestions, though!

Theorycraft:

I think <X, Y, or Z> would be good because <reason>.

List seeking advice:

I am thinking of taking this list or master:

  • ...
  • ...

I will be up against <faction or master opponent declared> (if known).

I own: <list models or crews>.

I think this list will work because <reason>, or I want to try this list because <reason>.

Battle report:

My list:

  • ...
  • ...

Opponents master (or list if you have their whole list)

  • ...
  • ...

Outcome and schemes I took:

Summary of how it went:

Things I would do differently:

 

 

 

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This pool feels like you could take anyone!

The brawl crews (Yan Lo, McMourning, Jack Daw) love a strat based on killing and wedge deployment.

Reva is surprisingly scrappy, and Research Mission looks good for her.

Seamus has good scheming and strategy potential. There's no hiding models somewhere safe to protect your evidence tokens. He will find you.

Summoners are all stars on Recover Evidence, so Kirai and Von Schtook are good.

Molly.... She may not be as well suited, but I feel she can work in just about everything (and has great denial potential for some of the schemes).

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Hi and thanks @Maniacal_cackle for using my suggestion for the pool!

I was a 2nd edition player and so far have only played one game of M3E (right when it was released/ McMourning vs. Nekima) and taken a hiatus since for game-unreleated reasons.
So I'm not familiar with the crews anymore and just finished me re-read of the rule book. Also the GG Season 1 Strats and Schemes are all new to me.
I have a game coming up with this pool and my opponent declared Guild :Guild:. He will probably play either Sonnia or Dashel, but that is knowledge that shouldn't come to heavy into play for selecting the crew. Later of course after we declare masters I can then tailor a crew with that knowledge. 
I have most of the faction with the exception of von Schtook whose crewbox I have but he's neither build nor painted.

So, my plan before knowing the pool was to play Kirai because I haven't played her so far and the crew read relatively simple to me (Crews like Jack Daw or Yan Lo seem less then ideal to learn the game again). But then I read up on my opponents crews and I feel if it's Sonnia on the opposing side of the table the Urami Models will melt away super fast with low wound count and the fact that burning doesn't stop at the end of the turn in M3E.

So alternatively I thought about playing McMourung again because his crew seems good for the Strat and they are relatively sturdy with all the poison healing. ... but I realy wanted to try Kirai :D

I feel Kirai can get the killing for the strat done easily and her crew will be right in the opponents face so they can pick up those strategy markers easy, but then again they will deliver their own right to the opponent also.
Schemewise I feel like Vendetta is probably a good choice with all the killing going on and maybe Research Mission? (btw. are scheme markers one type of marker or do enemy + friendly scheme markers count as two kinds?). Seeing as Kirai doesn't do a lot with corpse markers there should be corpses (altough not much of my own crew), scheme markers, strategy markers and the drowned could put down riptide markers, maybe scrap if my opponent brings something that could drop it.
The markerbased schemes (Runic Binding and Spread them out) seem like something Kirai can do but isn't particularly well suited for.
Take Prisoner needs a little cooperation from my opponent it seems with the whole no other enemy models in 4" , or me killing them all/ pushing them away. Also it means one enemy model will basicly have immunity and can do what it wants without me punishing it to hard. That seems fine on a cheaper, not to dangerous model but if my opponent catches wind of this (or after the reveal) he could just attack some of my Urami models (which he will do probably anyway) and kill his own model that way with vengeance (and the whole "... or if the chosen model was killed by an enemy-controlled model ..." wouldn't work in that case, right?)
But maybe I'm overvaluing the schemes anyway. They only give 4 points now combined and they seem a lot harder to achieve then in M2E. Maybe i should focus on the strat and Vendetta and pick the second scheme on a whim and what seems most easily done that day (game is a few weeks away).

So I guess I would take something like:

Size: 50 - Pool: 7
Leader:
  Kirai Ankoku
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Ikiryo
Hires:
  Datsue Ba
  Lost Love
  Goryo
  Goryo 
  Onryo
  Seishin 
  Seishin 
  Seishin 

The plan would be to just rush in there with the Goyos and Ikiryo to kill and get strat markers. Seishin + Lost Love are second row and there for support (maybe assist to remove burning if Sonnia is burning the place down ... so she would probably just blast the seishins easily:(). Kirai summons a model/turn maybe two if Ikiryo is already killed (she would probably deliver her strat marker to the opponent tough) and also shoots parts of the enemy crew with the trigger to let the freshly summoned models hit them too. 
The Onryo is for Vendetta. It will have to sit back till i damaged the target already, then scream at it and get the reveal point. Then the target can be killed and the Onryo will have to sit back, survive and shoot if there is a good opportunity. Lost Love can try to help to keep it alive.
Seeing as killing an opposing model with a intel counter drops a corpse and a strat marker (most likely, the opposing crew will have mostly "living" models) Research Mission doesn't seem like the worst option. Maybe summon a drowned to help that with riptide markers.

Like I said i could also see Mc Mourning with his usual core doing mostly the same but sturdier but I would like to use Kirai if possible.

Anyway, I will definitly let you guys know what Crew I picked, what Crew I faced and how it went.

Thanks for all your Input in advance :D

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Looks like a pretty good base! I have mainly played against Kirai, but some thoughts!

Summoners in general are pretty strong for Recover Evidence, so you're likely going to have an advantage there (since summoned models will not have any tokens).

3 hours ago, Daysleeper said:

Schemewise I feel like Vendetta is probably a good choice with all the killing going on and maybe Research Mission? (btw. are scheme markers one type of marker or do enemy + friendly scheme markers count as two kinds?). Seeing as Kirai doesn't do a lot with corpse markers there should be corpses (altough not much of my own crew), scheme markers, strategy markers and the drowned could put down riptide markers, maybe scrap if my opponent brings something that could drop it.

The markerbased schemes (Runic Binding and Spread them out) seem like something Kirai can do but isn't particularly well suited for.

Take Prisoner needs a little cooperation from my opponent it seems with the whole no other enemy models in 4" , or me killing them all/ pushing them away. Also it means one enemy model will basicly have immunity and can do what it wants without me punishing it to hard. That seems fine on a cheaper, not to dangerous model but if my opponent catches wind of this (or after the reveal) he could just attack some of my Urami models (which he will do probably anyway) and kill his own model that way with vengeance (and the whole "... or if the chosen model was killed by an enemy-controlled model ..." wouldn't work in that case, right?)

Vendetta can be good, but can be hard to score both points off of it if you haven't got a good setup. But it is a good one to try out, as it really gives you a feel for what your own crew can do and the enemy crew can do.

Research Mission - Riptide Markers disappear in the end phase (before scoring occurs), so I wouldn't recommend it. Scheme markers (friendly and enemy) only count as one type of marker, so it will be extraordinarily hard to score points for this. Compare it to say Reva on Leylines, where you have Pyre + corpses everywhere + strategy markers + scheme markers. That's the sort of thing you want to look at Research Mission.

Runic Binding is hard to do, especially when you kill all the models in the triangle you create anyway.

Spread them out... Worth considering, as you could set it up so that your opponent either has to come to you, or you win the game just by scoring Spread them Out points. Personally I often try that approach on kill-oriented schemes. I use schemes to gain an advantage, and then force the enemy to come to me for the fight.

Take prisoner - you can take Yin out of keyword and easily score the first point, but you're right they'll stop you from getting the second point for sure (just have to attack you and take Vengeance damage).

So of those, I'd just avoid Research Mission and Runic Binding, and then dealer's choice a bit between the other three - most of them you'll probably manage to score one point and that's it.

3 hours ago, Daysleeper said:


Size: 50 - Pool: 7
Leader:
  Kirai Ankoku
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Ikiryo
Hires:
  Datsue Ba
  Lost Love
  Goryo
  Goryo 
  Onryo
  Seishin 
  Seishin 
  Seishin 
 

Normally I'm a big advocate of double Goryo to start, but one thing to consider is if you do that, they may put Evidence Tokens on both of the Goryo. Something you could do instead is only hire one goryo, and summon another. That way, the summoned Goryo is completely expendable - they score no points by killing it. That gives you a spare Goryo to be really aggressive with.

If you wanted to be SUPER crazy, you could even skip hiring Ikiryo and summon her first turn alongside a Goryo. The idea being then you'd have another expendable model without a token.

But overall, it's probably fine if they score a couple of tokens early on. By the end of the game, you're probably going to have so much control of the board that you'll eventually outgrind them.

If you do take Lost Love, be careful to keep it out of harms way so it doesn't give an easy token.

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Out of Urami, I’d look into Jaakuna for this pool. The lure and triggers on her attacks are useful for recover evidence and take prisoner.

She might be too vulnerable to the expected shooting but her offensive tools are good for this pool.

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2 hours ago, Stumpyfjord said:

Out of Urami, I’d look into Jaakuna for this pool. The lure and triggers on her attacks are useful for recover evidence and take prisoner.

She might be too vulnerable to the expected shooting but her offensive tools are good for this pool.

Thanks, yeah I like that idea! 

In the meantime we declared our masters and my opponent declared Dashel and I declared Kirai.
So checking out Dashels Crew I really don't want to pick any schememarker based schemes. They have great anti marker play, worst case scenario my markers don't just vanish but turn into Excecutioners ^^ 
Also they remove corpses like crazy so I think Research Mission is completely of the table.
That leaves me with Vendetta and Take Prisoner. Jaakuna seems pretty good for Take Prisoner and Recover Evidence. Hiring her also gives me the option of summoning the second Goryo and go hard with him without thinking to much about it. So yeah, Jaakuna is in!

Size: 50 - Pool: 7
Leader:
  Kirai Ankoku
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Ikiryo
Hires:
  Datsue Ba
  Lost Love
  Goryo
  Jaakuna
  Onryo
  Seishin 
  Seishin 
  Seishin 

So, after checking out Dashels Crew I think I can aspect pretty aggressiv play and also quite a lot of Excecute Triggers (Dashel, Excecutioner and Riflemen ...maybe more). So I'll have to keep cards for that and also try so screen Kirai from the Riflemen. 
I see lots of Fokus in the Crew, card draw via dispatcher and after there are a few corpses quite some stones for my Opponent.
Anything else I should look out for?

Also what Master/Crew would you guys prefer for that pool? I mostly picked Kirai because I haven't played her yet and her Crew looks fun but other Masters would maybe be the more obvious choice here.

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That's a nice one! I would like to play that pool and test some things.
The list i see is Redchapel
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Seamus
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Copycat Killer
Hires:
  Dead Doxy
    Grave Spirit touch
  Rotten Belle
    Grave Spirit Touch

  Carrion Emissary
  Bete Noir
  Yin

The idea is to play around Schemes. Seamus, Belle, Doxy, Yin provides a way to move opponent's models as you would like to. Redchapel keyword ability Scarlet Temptation helps a lot with it.
So i consider Runic Binding a good choice.
Take Prisoner easily done with Yin most of the time.
Research Mission is not a big problem with Emissary and Seamus.
Spread Them Out - Seamus and Bete.
Vendetta also an option but depends on opponent's crew a lot.

Because of Strategy I assume that opponent whant to hit us hard and be in melee range. The problem - our models are pretty squishy. The solution (kinda) - now all of us are Terrifying, so please be prepeared to loose some cards and fail some actions. Scarlet Temptation also help's with that. 

Because of Sceme pool I can emagine that opponent will place some Scheme Markers and that's why Bete is here to deny.

Things to be aware of - focus Ruthless models with Seamus. What I'm really really missing in this list - Sybele for extra movement and min 3 dmg and Nurse for healing, removing conditions and extra Focus for Seamus. But i don't see what to remove to get SS

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3 hours ago, Daysleeper said:

Is it common to put 2SS Upgrades on 5SS/6SS Models? It feels like a realy big investment for something that can die relatively easily 

For GST specifically, it is somewhat common because it gives so much defensive tech. Having to take terrifying checks just to hit a 5-6 stone model gets very inefficient. Especially as Doxies and Belles have huge health pools. You're almost certainly going to negate some attacks.

The list is weak to ruthless (though they did spell out a plan for that),  but having terrifying across the board would definitely make for some rough situations for opponents. Some crews would just fold entirely!

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12 hours ago, Daysleeper said:

Thanks, yeah I like that idea! 

In the meantime we declared our masters and my opponent declared Dashel and I declared Kirai.
So checking out Dashels Crew I really don't want to pick any schememarker based schemes. They have great anti marker play, worst case scenario my markers don't just vanish but turn into Excecutioners ^^ 
Also they remove corpses like crazy so I think Research Mission is completely of the table.
That leaves me with Vendetta and Take Prisoner. Jaakuna seems pretty good for Take Prisoner and Recover Evidence. Hiring her also gives me the option of summoning the second Goryo and go hard with him without thinking to much about it. So yeah, Jaakuna is in!

Size: 50 - Pool: 7
Leader:
  Kirai Ankoku
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Ikiryo
Hires:
  Datsue Ba
  Lost Love
  Goryo
  Jaakuna
  Onryo
  Seishin 
  Seishin 
  Seishin 

So, after checking out Dashels Crew I think I can aspect pretty aggressiv play and also quite a lot of Excecute Triggers (Dashel, Excecutioner and Riflemen ...maybe more). So I'll have to keep cards for that and also try so screen Kirai from the Riflemen. 
I see lots of Fokus in the Crew, card draw via dispatcher and after there are a few corpses quite some stones for my Opponent.
Anything else I should look out for?

Also what Master/Crew would you guys prefer for that pool? I mostly picked Kirai because I haven't played her yet and her Crew looks fun but other Masters would maybe be the more obvious choice here.

Good thinking on the schemes.

Just a heads up that many regard Dashel as one of the best masters in the game, so don't be surprised if it is a rough battle. As long as you learn, you're doing well!

One thing to keep an eye out for is if he alpha strikes you with two executioners. They're somewhat squishy, so if you survive the initial onslaught you should be fine. Consider deploying a bit back from your limit. Make him work to come smash you.

EDIT: I haven't played against Dashel, though, so I'm not expert!

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8 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

For GST specifically, it is somewhat common because it gives so much defensive tech. Having to take terrifying checks just to hit a 5-6 stone model gets very inefficient. Especially as Doxies and Belles have huge health pools. You're almost certainly going to negate some attacks.

The list is weak to ruthless (though they did spell out a plan for that),  but having terrifying across the board would definitely make for some rough situations for opponents. Some crews would just fold entirely!

The last schemes and stones podcast showed how many models there are per faction with ruthless: https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2020/07/10/by-the-number-part-2/

So you should be fine against outcast and neverborn and maybe against bayou and arcarnists because these factions have very few options for ruthless. Against ten thunders, guild and ressers you probably should consider another list....

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2 hours ago, unti said:

The last schemes and stones podcast showed how many models there are per faction with ruthless: https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2020/07/10/by-the-number-part-2/

So you should be fine against outcast and neverborn and maybe against bayou and arcarnists because these factions have very few options for ruthless. Against ten thunders, guild and ressers you probably should consider another list....

Definitely not against Bayou because of Inferriority Complex Upgrade. Ruthless is something to be aware of for sure. But not something that would change my mind. Just change target priority :)
GST is not just Terrying, it's also Regen +2. Dead Doxy with HtW, Regret and Regen+2 is not a model that will die quickly. What i truely afraid of is not Ruthless, it's high range shooting...

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Going along the 'crew where you don't want to attack anything' train of thought... I wonder about a crew with something like:

  • Jack Daw (terrifying 12)
    • + totem
  • Montresor (Terrifying 11)
  • Hanged with GST (Terrifying 13)
  • Hanged with GST (Terrifying 13)
  • Guilty (gives a nasty upgrade when killed)
  • Guilty (Gives a nasty upgrade when killed)

Which would leave 11 stones to play with. Would be an interesting base, though. Would be hard to put any evidence tokens on that crew in a satisfying way! EDIT: Could possibly even have another minion and swap a GST to it, as Hanged are still pretty tough without it.

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2 hours ago, unti said:

The last schemes and stones podcast showed how many models there are per faction with ruthless: https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2020/07/10/by-the-number-part-2/

So you should be fine against outcast and neverborn and maybe against bayou and arcarnists because these factions have very few options for ruthless. Against ten thunders, guild and ressers you probably should consider another list....

Bayou have an upgrade that gives ruthless, so there's choices are actually pretty huge.

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1 hour ago, Sagrit said:

Definitely not against Bayou because of Inferriority Complex Upgrade. Ruthless is something to be aware of for sure. But not something that would change my mind. Just change target priority :)
GST is not just Terrying, it's also Regen +2. Dead Doxy with HtW, Regret and Regen+2 is not a model that will die quickly. What i truely afraid of is not Ruthless, it's high range shooting...

Hehe, that's what I get for not reading the table closely... Yes you are right, ruthless on an upgrade is bad (or great depending on which side of the table you are)...

And I didn't mean that the list won't still win or is a strong choice, it's just stronger against some factions than other ones, who are able to tech against a terrifying-bomb, and since you know the enemy faction before crewbuilding you should think about that....

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Sure, that's true. I will try to play the list this weekend. My opponents are usualy focused on killing, so it's a really nice challenge since i do realize that such list is squishy. We'll see how it goes :) 

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On 7/15/2020 at 4:41 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Good thinking on the schemes.

Just a heads up that many regard Dashel as one of the best masters in the game, so don't be surprised if it is a rough battle. As long as you learn, you're doing well!

One thing to keep an eye out for is if he alpha strikes you with two executioners. They're somewhat squishy, so if you survive the initial onslaught you should be fine. Consider deploying a bit back from your limit. Make him work to come smash you.

EDIT: I haven't played against Dashel, though, so I'm not expert!

Thanks for all the Input!

I thought a bit more about interarctions between my crew and Dashels'.

I think possibly the best answer I have to executioners is a well placed Drowned summon.
They have quite some wounds, htw, he can't cheat :ToS-Melee:Attacks against them and if the executioner is summoned drowned can hit harder with the :Guild: trigger and also draw a card after damaging.
Also mark of vengeance on some important models in the dashel crew could be important to cancel the healing of Dashel (and the executioners can heal themsselfs).
And then there is Challenge of the Shikome which can realy help if I challenge someone and then fly behind a building for example. Also if I can put Challenge on Dashel he has to discard a card to target The Dispatcher. Thats all situational but could come in handy.
Also I should make the most out of incorporeal and hide behind blocking terrain, then move/charge through it. This could be very important to keep the Vendetta Model in my own crew alive (probably the Onryo).

Edited by Daysleeper
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Against summoners, I would consider Anna and/or Vincent. Anna works well to force your opponent to use his own markers and deny the option to summon right into your frontlines. She worked quite well for me against him.

Dashel's summons come with an Upgrade, so Vincent can trigger his Execute.

Taking both is only in Transmortis and Revenant an option imho, as both are expensive, but one OOK hire can be incorporated everywhere. Not sure which one I would prefer, though I tend towards Anna. She has more abilities that can be useful anywhere. 

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4 minutes ago, Graf said:

Against summoners, I would consider Anna and/or Vincent. Anna works well to force your opponent to use his own markers and deny the option to summon right into your frontlines. She worked quite well for me against him.

Dashel's summons come with an Upgrade, so Vincent can trigger his Execute.

Taking both is only in Transmortis and Revenant an option imho, as both are expensive, but one OOK hire can be incorporated everywhere. Not sure which one I would prefer, though I tend towards Anna. She has more abilities that can be useful anywhere. 

Seems like a good idea, seeing as hostile work environment also means he cant use some of the support mechanics of the crew. Anna has Spirit Barage ignoring Friendly Fire, which seems important in this crew. Remote Detonator could blow up a "used up" Drowned but doesn't have any other targgets in this crew. Her df/wp (6/6) and armor 1 together with soulstone use mean she is not that squishi. But one "excecute"-Shot from the Riflemen is enough.
Maybe Anna has a place ...

Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Kirai Ankoku
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Ikiryo
Hires:
  Datsue Ba
  Lost Love
  Anna Lovelace
  Jaakuna
  Onryo
  Seishin 
  Seishin 

Anna instead of Goryo (so two aggresive summons) but only 6 Stones and two Seishin . Hmm, not quite sure if it's worth the Seishin and the Stone.
What do you guys think?

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20 minutes ago, Graf said:

Against summoners, I would consider Anna and/or Vincent. Anna works well to force your opponent to use his own markers and deny the option to summon right into your frontlines. She worked quite well for me against him.

Dashel's summons come with an Upgrade, so Vincent can trigger his Execute.

Taking both is only in Transmortis and Revenant an option imho, as both are expensive, but one OOK hire can be incorporated everywhere. Not sure which one I would prefer, though I tend towards Anna. She has more abilities that can be useful anywhere. 

I've played Reva into Dashel before and utilized this - Vincent and Anna. But it was a more killy pool. Either way, watching Vincent one-shot an Executioner was the highlight of the game! I misplayed Anna in this game so didn't really get to see how useful she was. I held her further back because the of weight of his shooting so did not get huge benefit of her gravity well and hostile work environment until late in the game. I should have just pushed her forward I think. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Speedguyjp said:

I've played Reva into Dashel before and utilized this - Vincent and Anna. But it was a more killy pool. Either way, watching Vincent one-shot an Executioner was the highlight of the game! I misplayed Anna in this game so didn't really get to see how useful she was. I held her further back because the of weight of his shooting so did not get huge benefit of her gravity well and hostile work environment until late in the game. I should have just pushed her forward I think. 

 

 

 

Vincent seems also great (and 1 SS cheaper than Anna). The obviously greatest thing in this matchup is the Execute Trigger on the crossbow, but the pyre markers are also realy nice as most of the urami models are incorporeal and wouldn't get hurt by them. Remove corpse markers could also come in handy to deny Dashel to get stones from them (Anna can do this too, but drops a scheme marker for dashel do summon of, if shes not close enough). The Crossbow also ignores Friendly Fire ... hmm ... decisions decisions ...

Size: 50 - Pool: 7
Leader:
  Kirai Ankoku
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Ikiryo
Hires:
  Datsue Ba
  Lost Love
  Vincent St. Clair
  Jaakuna
  Onryo
  Seishin 
  Seishin
 

It's one more Stone in my cache than with Anna.
Note quite sure.
What list would you guys prefer? The one with Anna or the one with Vincent?

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7 hours ago, Daysleeper said:

Vincent seems also great (and 1 SS cheaper than Anna). The obviously greatest thing in this matchup is the Execute Trigger on the crossbow, but the pyre markers are also realy nice as most of the urami models are incorporeal and wouldn't get hurt by them. Remove corpse markers could also come in handy to deny Dashel to get stones from them (Anna can do this too, but drops a scheme marker for dashel do summon of, if shes not close enough). The Crossbow also ignores Friendly Fire ... hmm ... decisions decisions ...

Size: 50 - Pool: 7
Leader:
  Kirai Ankoku
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Ikiryo
Hires:
  Datsue Ba
  Lost Love
  Vincent St. Clair
  Jaakuna
  Onryo
  Seishin 
  Seishin
 

It's one more Stone in my cache than with Anna.
Note quite sure.
What list would you guys prefer? The one with Anna or the one with Vincent?

I'd lean towards Vincent (though I've only played against Anna). Anna/Vincent will have an evidence token, so you want to be a bit back from the action. Anna's auras have to be right up in the action.

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