Models that (visually) ruin a Keyword for you.

[The Lord Of Pudding]

Just some thoughts about models I really dislike. Maybe some of you guys think the same? Or have similar problems?

I don't know, I just wrote this as Feedback to increase the chance to get some models more to my liking, just a silly try, especially for Performer, and got the answer that I should posts this in the Forum istead.

Performer Box:
Overly sexy, some in rather silly positions, clothes with lots of details but overall quite tastless, like a princess dress for a little girl on a grown woman without adding more material. Not that I have problems with others liking this. 

They are the only Malifaux models that I actually would feel uncomfortable playing with, they look like prostitutes, and their background and playstyle does not really help with that, unlike for example Seamus' girls which have a cool sinister background. 

Of course, there is the Nightmare Edition, though the circus theme is not exactly to my liking as well, I still would rather go with them instead of the naked girls. 

I would love an off-stage version, where they look more like business woman, maybe in the direction of seamstresses. Or some girls that look really badass, in the direction of Mercenary, Kunoichi or the Bubblegum Mei Feng.

Ice Dancer:
Same here, but they also are in my opinion rather December models, so having alt models in a box that go more in the direction of Rasputina might also help to sell them to new December players that aren't into Performers? 

Mercenary Box:
I am not too fond of the old style of the Mercanary girls, but I think they were solid models that attract other people than the new cowboy girls, especially the new Ronin which look like drunk women that are short from falling over after a long night.

I would love seeing the old Mercenary models repackaged to fit the new boxes with 3rd Edition Cards - or a cool Nightmare Edition of the Ronin girls at least.

Tormented Box, Hanged:
Looks more like a Nightmare Edition, the butler and the screaming lady are kinda funny and the Guilty look rather hilarious. I would love to see some more normal Undead in the direction of Dead Outlaws or Drowned. Some Spectres in the direction of Urami or Aversions in a Nightmare Edition would also be quite cool.

Chompy Bits and Dreamer:
I love the old Chompy Bits, it looks more like a deadly predator than a slow mass of destruction. And so far, from my tabletop buddies I get the same feedback. The innocent Dreamer is also pretty cool.

I would love an alt box with old Chompy bits with a grown-up version of the dreamer (one of these white hospital garments similar to his kid nightgown, bloody, him dazed like sleepwalking while dragging the bat behind him).

Death Marshal Recruiter:
This one might be the most irritating case in all of Malifaux to me. One is Living, perfectly fine. The other one has a burning skull and also looks otherwise exactly like an Undead Death Marshal. Then there is this alt Death Marshal Miss that looks like a living one.

I personally would greatly love an alt box with a LIVING Death Marshal Recruiter (maybe Miss Terious) that also includes a card for the Undead Death Marshal Recruiter to be played as Death Marshal. Or a new Marshal single model box that also includes an alt head and card for that Undead Recruiter model.

[Nikshe]

14 minutes ago, The Lord Of Pudding said:

they look like prostitutes

They are. Surprise!

[Fixxer]

Focus on the things you like. You will be happier for it. Good luck. 

[solkan]

8 hours ago, The Lord Of Pudding said:

Performer Box:
Overly sexy, some in rather silly positions, clothes with lots of details but overall quite tastless, like a princess dress for a little girl on a grown woman without adding more material. Not that I have problems with others liking this. 

They are the only Malifaux models that I actually would feel uncomfortable playing with, they look like prostitutes, and their background and playstyle does not really help with that, unlike for example Seamus' girls which have a cool sinister background. 

Of course, there is the Nightmare Edition, though the circus theme is not exactly to my liking as well, I still would rather go with them instead of the naked girls. 

I would love an off-stage version, where they look more like business woman, maybe in the direction of seamstresses. Or some girls that look really badass, in the direction of Mercenary, Kunoichi or the Bubblegum Mei Feng.

There have been at least four versions of the Performer box.  If you want to complain about the performer models, please try to be specific which versions of the model(s) you're complaining about.

Although, to be frank, if you're going to accuse some models of looking like prostitutes, and you don't mention the Red Chapel keyword, I think you're possibly missing a frame of reference, historical and otherwise.  🥶

 

[Mycellanious]

Definitely Winged Plague or Benny in crew of cute kitties.

[LeperColony]

4 hours ago, solkan said:

Although, to be frank, if you're going to accuse some models of looking like prostitutes, and you don't mention the Red Chapel keyword, I think you're possibly missing a frame of reference, historical and otherwise.

Not to mention, even a cursory understanding of vaudeville theater would make any of the sculpts not only thematically appropriate, but even tame.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Part of what put me off a Redchapel crew was asking myself "are all my female friends going to be comfortable facing off against this crew?" and I thought "probably not." So can definitely relate to that bit.

For the most part, though, I think one of Malifaux's strengths is how virtually every model fits really well into each crew thematically (especially if you know the backstory). Offhand I can't think of anything that doesn't really fit.

EDIT: Oh, nightmare boxes. They never quite fit as they're not released as full keywords, so they always seem a bit mismatched to me. Although Pirate Molly does pretty well!

[MrPieChee]

Performer models look absolutely fine to me - follow the aesthetic perfectly.

Trixie and Olivia on the other hand ruin tricksy and wizz-bang for me. With Mah, you can escape it, but Wong needs his totem!

As said above Winged plague don't feel like they belong.

Grave golem seems a fairly lazy sculpt - I'm fairly convinced I can make something better myself (already seen better models made by others).

Geryon similarly just looks really boring.

Pigapult being a tiny sprue in a giant box, and priced as such is also an issue. Opening that up after forking out for a 'large' model is not a good feeling! (And then having to put together the head of the gremlin from three separate parts - what a joke!)

[Trample]

Unfortunately I like most of it and consequently have  way too many models from every faction. There are a couple of things I really don't like and can't see myself ever picking up. Guilty for one. I  have a bit of trouble understand move 5 when you're strapped to a table. I don't like creepy kids a lot - like changelings (even though I have some). For the most part though I have the opposite problem. 

[Da Git]

If I don't like a model, I usually just convert/kitbash one up... Hell, even if I do like the model, I often convert it!

A big one for me was Fuhatsu. Made him from Izamu, the gigantor Samurai's gun, Ork arms & a Catachen head for Rambo!

Sadly a few are no longer usable (Fae-Hannah, TT Toshiro)

[The Lord Of Pudding]

14 hours ago, solkan said:

There have been at least four versions of the Performer box.  If you want to complain about the performer models, please try to be specific which versions of the model(s) you're complaining about.

Although, to be frank, if you're going to accuse some models of looking like prostitutes, and you don't mention the Red Chapel keyword, I think you're possibly missing a frame of reference, historical and otherwise.  🥶

 

I find it quite amusing that you say so while overlooking the remark about Seamus' girls. 

I maybe have spoken with 3 women about Malifaux, not exactly representative, but the general consent was that because of them being Zombies and Seamus bein a crazy Murderer (an understatement, I know), it's more of a cool horror theme, with the tasteless dresses fitting quite well to it.

Performers on the other side were rather disliked. I mean that they work as prostitutes isn't even that much of a big deal (Qi and Gong), but the choice of clothes. You can dress revealing and sexy while also looking classy, badass, dangerous, sinister, strong, but the ones they wear look just cheap and tasteless. 

 

I know, it's a silly complaint, never took it serious myself, still, Performer is one of the Keywords I am rulewise most interested in. No harm done with complaining a bit.

1st Edition looks fine but has too much of another artistic (?) style, not to mention where should I even get them from?

2nd Edition is likely my favorite, the Showgirls look a bit stiff (and one is missing), but they look more like arrogant classy girls looking down on the guys, I like that image for them a lot better. Cassandra ist still rather naked, but with a far better pose, and Colette looks quite badass.

Getting them should be possible, but will likely cost me twice as much and it would be more of a compromise - I don't exactly love the 2nd models either. Still, Performer are together with Mercenary the resculpts I dislike the most. 

Nightmare Edition has this really ugly clown and the models don't really fit the rules in my opinion. I don't think there are any boxes with more then one Nightmare Edition so far? I would be happy about another one. Something like well-dressed Gentlemen seducing the upper-class ladies for example. 

 

 

[touchdown]

I've always hated how the Guilty look. They seem really silly or goofy when it feels like Tormented should be serious.

I think new Ronin look fine. I like the calm collected demeanor (I also liked the 2E versions, sucker for a woman with a sword), but I really dislike the new Viks. I'm so glad I have 2E versions (and I actually like the 1E punk look even more).

[Paddywhack]

1 hour ago, touchdown said:

I've always hated how the Guilty look. They seem really silly or goofy when it feels like Tormented should be serious.

 

Definitely a reason I haven't thought seriously about buying them. One of the only crews I dislike the aesthetic of really. 

[eddy]

Performers stlye and clothing are totaly in place. They aint prostitutes... they work in theater as dancers. Just check what burlesque is

[Forgotmytea]

On 7/11/2020 at 12:15 AM, eddy said:

Performers stlye and clothing are totaly in place. They aint prostitutes... they work in theater as dancers. Just check what burlesque is

I agree, I've never had anyone have a problem with Colette and her girls. My favourite sculpts are the first edition ones (possibly out of nostalgia, as that's when I started playing), but I love all of her crew boxes. I have more Colette models than I should admit!

[theamazingmrg]

If all the female models in Malifaux were dressed provocatively, then I could see the point, but a crew of what are basically burlesque dancers dressed like burlesque dancers is a) thematically appropiate, and b) perfectly fine within the context of the range.

[Regelridderen]

On 7/10/2020 at 6:09 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Part of what put me off a Redchapel crew was asking myself "are all my female friends going to be comfortable facing off against this crew?" and I thought "probably not." So can definitely relate to that bit.

Funny thing is, the majority of female players start with Seamus and work from there 😊

Wyrd is pretty far from raging heroes teen boy dominatrix fantasies, and have a good decent range in female representation, there’s big girls, abused zombie prostitutes, empowered gunslingers, psycho fireslingers, femme fatales, pugilists and old crones. Women can be anything and do anything, at least as good as any man. Whether its being victimized and turned into a zombie prostitute, being a cannibal Cult supervillain or the strong hero. 

Playing Seamus does not mean you’re endorsing abusing women, just as playing Lady Justice doesn’t turn you into a champion of women’s rights. But acknowledging that women can play any role in fiction is a sign of respect - both to women and authors. 

[HomelessOne]

2 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

Funny thing is, the majority of female players start with Seamus and work from there 😊

Guilty as charged.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

Funny thing is, the majority of female players start with Seamus and work from there 😊

 

That tends to be true here as well xD Although I can still imagine that a lot of my friends would be put off, especially without the wider context (i.e. when they're new).

At this point, though, I'll probably pick up a Seamus crew regardless. It's not like one plays Seamus against new players anyway, or those models are particularly useful to the crew xD

[Regelridderen]

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

...especially without the wider context (i.e. when they're new).

That really is the thing. You really need the wider context in all things, lest you end up with silly ideas, that women are somehow less, simply because...<insert insane rambling example>.

[HomelessOne]

Showgirls/Performers have always been some of my favorites as well, since we were on the topic. While not as obviously iconic as Seamus' "dead hookers" aesthetic, I think Team Colette has consistently been some of the best and most interesting sculpts every edition. They're flashy and daring (for the setting's time period) but I've never found them to be overly sexualized or tasteless. Beyond that you have very fun lore; Colette has a lot of things she's juggling, from the truly fun angle of dazzling even Guild eyes with real magic skillfully made to look like sleight of hand, to the varying demands and dangers of smuggling for the M&SU/Arcanists.

Beyond the burlesque dancer look, I think the crew is one of the most tightly-knit and empowering of them all. In many, arguably even most, keywords the Minions are as faceless in the lore as they are to us on the tabletop. But things are different at the Star Theater. From the Master all the way down to the basic Minion, the lore has always emphasized the bond between all the performers. A troupe of women (and Carlos!) banded together to obtain the wealth and freedom they'd otherwise be denied on either side of the Breach.

Let's jump all the way back to Cassandra's 1e profile; "Colette is protective of all of her girls. Cassandra protects Colette."

[The Lord Of Pudding]

Since I don't like the style of the Performer dresses and got similar feedback from my friends, I assumed that might be an issue for other people as well. Obviously I was wrong about that. 🙈

 

I don't know. If I look up burlesque, the majority of dresses look a lot more appealing to me than the ones on the 3E models. Do you guys know of some good paint jobs for the 3E models? That might help. 

[Maogrim]

I like the current showgirls and have liked all of the keyword in all incarnations so far, except maybe for M2E Colette, who looked a little too much like a steampunk fan on some convention. Current Cassandra's leg posture is also a little weird. Got into Malifaux because of M1E Colette, who is currently for sale on the trading subforum.

On models that I don't really like I have to name Youko's geishas (got the box anyway). The theme of the crew is cool but the geishas are a little too samey for my taste. All of them have the same dress, the same hair style and hold two fans. Other human minion models who come in threes are way more individual, like Kunoichi (who even wear masks), showgirls, ruffians etc. 

Evil Oliver Twist aka the new Dreamer is also not my thing. I really liked his previous incarnations who were inspired by Nemo in Slumberland. I guess it makes sense that a little boy would visibly age faster than the adults in the game, but to me the crew lost a big chunk of its charm.

I am also not a fan of 'funny' models in more serious factions. I particularly dislike Fuhatsu (a giant Japanese man with brain damage who drools and constantly loses his pants) and the Tanuki (silly drunk, fat red pandas), who are sadly among the best versatiles in my current faction. I know there's Miss Guided, but I don't know how to get her. 

With that being said I think that Wyrd does a phenomenal job on almost all of their designs. The new Jakob Lynch, Hungering Darkness and female Illuminated for example are incredibly cool and sold me on Honeypot.

 

[MichKonwMinis]

I'm also not a big fan of the Dreamer mini, but moreover I have a problem with Lord Chompy Bits. It is too wide, I mean hands, too big. It has too short legs, his back looks like fat cartoon woman in strange skirt. Head, chest, belly are quite nice.

[Broken Clock]

I'm not entirely comfortable with how some people have decided to associate women dressed with sex-appeal in mind as "prostitutes". Malifaux has plenty of women in the game who are not sexy. Perhaps let's not wag our finger at the tiny few that are. I find it's upsetting that some companies are actually listening to these complaints, when it's obvious they are held by what is likely a small segment of the community. I for one enjoy the sexy sculpts, as does my wife who both plays and paints with me. It's actually part of the thing that drew me to the game, since I loved the over-top stylization of EVERYTHING Malifaux does (including sex . . . sorry Footloose pastor).  I'll let her know that what she chooses to dress up for for friendly Halloween parties and what she likes to play with when gaming is considered by some as "prostitutes".