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Ressers community pool 3: Corner Symbols of Authority!


What master would you declare for this pool?  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. What master would you declare for this pool?

    • Dr. McMourning
      0
    • Jack Daw
    • Kirai Ankoku
    • Molly Squidpiddge
    • Nicodem
      0
    • Professor Von Schtook
    • Reva Cortinas
    • Seamus
    • Yan Lo


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I hope people are enjoying these, so I figured I'd at least do every strategy once (and more if they're popular).

This thread is for all ressers: master and newbie alike! In this thread we'll all come together to discuss a scheme pool. Ideally some of us will even get to play it!

Pool 3: Corner Symbols of Authority

  • Symbols of Authority - Corner Deployment
    • Claim Jump
    • Catch and Release
    • Let them Bleed
    • Research Mission
    • Spread them Out

How to participate:

Just post! You can post theorycraft about what master or list you'd take into this pool, or you can post a list you want to take into this pool seeking advice, or a battle report of actually playing the pool.

If you're not confident posting, I'll slap some templates here that you can steal to make a reply. These are just suggestions, though!

Theorycraft:

I think <X, Y, or Z> would be good because <reason>.

List seeking advice:

I am thinking of taking this list or master:

  • ...
  • ...

I will be up against <faction or master opponent declared> (if known).

I own: <list models or crews>.

I think this list will work because <reason>, or I want to try this list because <reason>.

Battle report:

My list:

  • ...
  • ...

Opponents master (or list if you have their whole list)

  • ...
  • ...

Outcome and schemes I took:

Summary of how it went:

Things I would do differently:

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I'm thinking possibly something like:

  • Reva + corpses
  • Grave Golem
  • Vincent  St. Clair (for his summons, and also for the occasional 5-6 damage a hit if I need to burst something).
  • Shieldbearer
  • Lampad
  • Lampad with GST.
  • 7 stones floating.

Which gives me a solid path to all five schemes! Plus it lets me test the limits of lampads a bit more, as I do want to get more familiar with the model.

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As noted in previous pools my experience is limited to Reva and Seamus (for now!). I'd be leaning towards Seamus personally.

I would take something like the following:

Seamus+Whisper

CCK

2x Dead Doxies w/ GST

1x Rotten Belle

1x Dead Dandy

Nurse

Dead Rider

5 stones

--OR-- swap in Emissary for the Nurse and GSTs 

Goal would be to use the Doxies to score - terrorizing (11), disquised, HTW, Regret is hard to shift against most crews (especially healed by nurse). Use the Belle (Lure) and Doxies (take by hand) to disrupt opponent's scoring the strategy. Seamus and the Rider are mobile enough and killy enough to threaten most crews and prevent my opponent from rushing the center. I'm including the Dandy as a cheeky way to convert enemy scheme markers into corpses for me if necessary. Would likely lean towards Research Mission (if taking Emissary or the enemy's crew is appropriate), Spread them out, and claim jump.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I'm thinking possibly something like:

  • Reva + corpses
  • Grave Golem
  • Vincent  St. Clair (for his summons, and also for the occasional 5-6 damage a hit if I need to burst something).
  • Shieldbearer
  • Lampad
  • Lampad with GST.
  • 7 stones floating.

Which gives me a solid path to all five schemes! Plus it lets me test the limits of lampads a bit more, as I do want to get more familiar with the model.

Not bad. I like Lampads, but agree they are probably too expensive for their stats and abilities (one Stat 6, one built in Tome, and make Hovering Flame give them Burning too and they might be OK at 8SS). They are a good way to hand out Burning though and stack their own once you have Pyres out there. With Reva on the table, Research Mission is a lot easier, so don't forget to use the Lampads and Vincent to move Pyre Markers over the center line.

If he brings Anna it really shuts down Reva's healing, which is very important in my mind. She should be a priority target if you can manage it. You might consider a Killer Instinct or two as the extra SS from corpses can be very helpful later game. That extra push can help too. 

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8 hours ago, Speedguyjp said:

As noted in previous pools my experience is limited to Reva and Seamus (for now!). I'd be leaning towards Seamus personally.

I would take something like the following:

Seamus+Whisper

CCK

2x Dead Doxies w/ GST

1x Rotten Belle

1x Dead Dandy

Nurse

Dead Rider

5 stones

--OR-- swap in Emissary for the Nurse and GSTs 

Goal would be to use the Doxies to score - terrorizing (11), disquised, HTW, Regret is hard to shift against most crews (especially healed by nurse). Use the Belle (Lure) and Doxies (take by hand) to disrupt opponent's scoring the strategy. Seamus and the Rider are mobile enough and killy enough to threaten most crews and prevent my opponent from rushing the center. I'm including the Dandy as a cheeky way to convert enemy scheme markers into corpses for me if necessary. Would likely lean towards Research Mission (if taking Emissary or the enemy's crew is appropriate), Spread them out, and claim jump.

Nice! And really highlights there are some useful models in Redchapel.

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4 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

With Reva on the table, Research Mission is a lot easier, so don't forget to use the Lampads and Vincent to move Pyre Markers over the center line.

I usually just get a corpse marker across the line. Then any model can just charge + interact for 3 markers (assuming no black joker on damage).

4 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

If he brings Anna it really shuts down Reva's healing, which is very important in my mind. She should be a priority target if you can manage it. 

Yeah, and her anti place can mess with Grave Golem. So will definitely have Vincent ready to go if she gets anywhere awkward. I suck at using Reva's heal anyway, though xD

4 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

 You might consider a Killer Instinct or two as the extra SS from corpses can be very helpful later game. That extra push can help too. 

If the ruthless is irrelevant, you need to remove three corpse markers before that is positive value, right?  Seems a bit risky to me (although on a minion for deadly pursuit could be worth it, so maybe I'll try it on the shieldbearer).

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11 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I usually just get a corpse marker across the line. Then any model can just charge + interact for 3 markers (assuming no black joker on damage).

 

I'm thinking denying your opponent more than just getting your own. It's likely some of your Pyre markers will be on your side of the table, making it that much easier for them the score Research Mission as well. Dragging them over helps you and can hinder them. 

12 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

If the ruthless is irrelevant, you need to remove three corpse markers before that is positive value, right?  Seems a bit risky to me (although on a minion for deadly pursuit could be worth it, so maybe I'll try it on the shieldbearer).

Technically, but I rate Deadly Pursuit pretty highly myself - I always put it on a minion (Draugr, Lampad, Shieldbearer). It's not impossible they won't bring any Terrifying. A Rogue Necro with Von Schtook can be a nightmare. As long as it starts with an Upgrade he can give it Fast.... That with the crews card draw can be deadly. It's an odd choice yes, but not impossible. Or a Student with GST for Terrifying 11 can be quite annoying to put down. 

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I choose Schtook, again due to the fact he's my main. It's not that clear cut this time around though, so I'll go more into options and considerations.

Pool 3: Corner Symbols of Authority

  • Symbols of Authority - Corner Deployment
    • Claim Jump
    • Catch and Release
    • Let them Bleed
    • Research Mission
    • Spread them Out

Theorycraft:

Corner: Works well. Schtook can easily deploy in a bubble and fan out a lot if necessary. Transmortis models are either quick, can teleport or work well from mid/long range anyway. For the teleporters it's just important to consider the pressure on your hand, Transmortis' card draw is good but I wouldn't call it 100% safe.

Symbols: Worth 2 points easily, 3 points likely, 4 can be tough but possible. It depends very much on the board and the opponent's list. But imho your opponent can't deny you a decent amount of VP here. If they spread their markers out, it gives you the chance to shoot your Vale/Punk scheme bullets where ever the opponent's presence is weakest and you might even get away again next turn. If they bubble up as much as possible to protect their markers, push them away from the outliers with Undergraduates, then score.

Claim Jump: Always legit with Transmortis, a Necropunk (best with GST) takes care of that. If you fear the tell, even an Undergraduate can work. Personally I prefer them as cheap workhorses though, so I can never be sure if they survive until the end. Wouldn't risk it against bubble crews like Pandora or Daw, even though they might be unlikely in this pool.

Catch and Release: Never actually used this one. I would say its kinda like Claim Jump in its approach?

Let them Bleed: That's the one I pick against bubble crews and blast away. Otherwise not a huge fan tbh, it goes against common good practice of focus & fire. But if the opponent has a elite crew or many models can easily move out of melee anyway, it's a candidate.

Research Mission: I avoid this one like hell, even not entirely sure why. The first point shouldn't be a problem, Transmortis can produce different kinds of markers. But I feel like this scheme has to many moving parts to be reliable. Definitly not one I can pick without knowing the enemy crew. Maybe someone with practical experience can elaborate here?

Spread them out: I prefer schemes where I can put my scheme markers relativly close to each other, Transmortis' scheme generation usually happens where the action is. But if I make room for 2 Necropunks, e.g. if I expect my opponent to spread their strategy out, this is a sure pick.

 

So my list would stay mostly in-keyword. Schtook + Whisper, Totem, Valedictorian, 2-3 Undergraduates, 1-2 Necropunks. Mostly likely bolstered by an Emissary. The Birdman gives its coffin marker (Research Mission) and the speed bump for spread out Symbols, Claim Jump. Also, every gun helps with Let them bleed. The Sinew is a possibility if I'm up against a bubble, so I can gain an additional push per turn and the ability to pull back an exposed model which scored Symbols.

All in all scoring shouldn't be an issue for Transmortis with this pool. Keeping the opponents from scoring is the real issue here, but I really can't say much about that without knowing the crew. So other than what I already said, my base assumption for now would be a good defense by employing a good offense.

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Emiba won our game, he played super efficiently! 7-6.

His Von Schtook crew was very similar to Graf's, but used Anna over Emissary. She was pretty devastating against my crew - built in trigger to turn my corpse candles into zombies (and then can grade assignment to get them off the table). Just denied me hard on having my pyre markers down, which meant the Lampads were even more fragile than expected. Valedictorian successfully alpha striked my Lampad with GST down, taking out my claim jumper.

Student of Viscera was MVP for point scoring, single-handedly taking 3 of the markers.

I used 'hurl corpse' on the grave golem for a clutch last-hit on his necropunk to put it out of claim jump health for the second point.

I also had to use Reva for scoring the strategy with this build, as the Lampads got bogged down (incidentally, it'd be super good if they had unimpeded, would really flesh out their roles as glorified scheme runners).

Overall, I think versatile/OOK keyword Reva is a lot better than going too deep into keyword (though Vincent typically does very well, dishing out quite a bit of damage, killing, and soaking hits).

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2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

but used Anna over Emissary. She was pretty devastating against my crew - built in trigger to turn my corpse candles into zombies (and then can grade assignment to get them off the table).

Probably no difference for this game if she used Grade Assignment right after, but she can't turn Candles into Zombies. The target needs to be living.

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6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Overall, I think versatile/OOK keyword Reva is a lot better than going too deep into keyword (though Vincent typically does very well, dishing out quite a bit of damage, killing, and soaking hits).

Two lampads, as subpar as they are, are probably a waste if points. I like to take one to help give out burning. Remember Hoveing Flame just has to touch a base and is a move, not a push. They need some fixes. Their main advantages, besides Demise, are not taking damage from burning so they make good batteries.

Sounds like a close game though. Maybe without Anna hampering your candles it may have changed things. Do you not like to bounce your candles up early and have Vincent kill both turn 1 to net 4 pyres? They can usually be pretty close to center.

 

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5 hours ago, Graf said:

Probably no difference for this game if she used Grade Assignment right after, but she can't turn Candles into Zombies. The target needs to be living.

Wow. I feel really dumb for missing the living only cost on the trigger. 😣 Definitely had a large impact as we interpreted "does not Drop any Markers" as meaning that it didn't drop any pyre Marker from it's demise ability. I still think that's the right interpretation (?) but the living only cost would have prevented that from happening. And I know that affects how @Maniacal_cackle acted around Anna as we talked about it after the game.

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4 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

 

Sounds like a close game though. Maybe without Anna hampering your candles it may have changed things. Do you not like to bounce your candles up early and have Vincent kill both turn 1 to net 4 pyres? They can usually be pretty close to center.

 

I usually remove one with a shieldbearer for focus pulse, and then use the pyre marker to make another corpse candle.

Then I keep both alive as I like having mobile corpse markers for Reva.  I should try your method though! Just struggle to use shielded to extend her attack range.

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I usually remove one with a shieldbearer for focus pulse, and then use the pyre marker to make another corpse candle.

Then I keep both alive as I like having  corpse markers for Reva.  I should try your method though! Just struggle to use shielded to extend her attack range.

Ah, I like the extra pyres to really try and get burning going. I haven't had too much trouble getting Reva attack vectors, but I can see how that could be a concern. I've also been playing with bringing Mortimer or Restless Spirit for extra corpse generation for Candles. I just find myself killing the candles a lot to get pyres and corpses. 

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@emiba I see. It would deny Pyre Markers, if she could use the trigger on them. But that's not the case so... Stuff happens? Next time you simply go for Manos and deny their Demise this way ;-).

But I'm interested in Viscera's performance, if you have some more experience with Symbols and them, even better. I'm kind of reluctant to send them out all on their own for the strat. Do you pair him up with another model and if yes, whom? Do you just risk it and try to apply pressure elsewhere? Some other way to keep them alive? 

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Haha, both Emiba and I have bought but not assembled Manos >.>

The student of viscera was brutal along a flank. It was too tanky for me to just kill off quickly, so I couldn't dedicate the resources to stop it. So it just freely scored 😕

EDIT: note it was a severe terrain heavy board, so that may have boosted its strengths. But 19" of movement a turn (deadly pursuit and ambush) is no joke.

Wouldn't recommend against all crews, though. Anyone who can spare cheap models to engage it would shut it down pretty hard, I think (but that is what necropunks cover).

 

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Pool 3: Corner Symbols of Authority

  • Symbols of Authority - Corner Deployment
    • Claim Jump :ToS-Crow:
    • Catch and Release :ToS-Crow:
    • Let them Bleed
    • Research Mission
    • Spread them Out

Theorycraft:

So I decided on Von Schtook, mainly because I want to get more experience with him, but also, the mobility appealed to me. My idea was to make a strong presence in the center and send the Student of Viscera pick up Symbols. Corner makes me think that the center is going to be the route of choice and I know that @Maniacal_cackle likes to take claim jump on the Grave Golem (which he didn't). My idea was to take claim jump on the Necropunk because it's Sz 1 and with Valedictorian and Anna Lovelace taking up positions near the center, I should be able to leap into a position where line of sight would be blocked if his positioning was as aggressive as mine. For Catch and Release I was banking on that the Valedictorian or Anna being close to Vincent so an Undergraduate could By Your Side into him. They're probably not going to kill him in a turn and it will even give plausible deniability to not immediately be identified as Catch and Release.

Battle report:

My list:

  • Von Schtook w/ The Whisper, 5 soul stones
  • Research Assistant
  • Anna Lovelace w/ Grave Spirit's Touch
  • The Valedictorian
  • Student of Viscera w/ Killer Instinct
  • Undergraduate
  • Necropunk

Opponents master (or list if you have their whole list)

  • Reva, 5 soul stones
  • Corpse Candle x 2
  • Vincent St.Clair
  • Grave Golem
  • Lampad w/ Grave Spirit's Touch
  • Lampad w/ Killer Instinct
  • Shieldbearer

Outcome and schemes I took: I got 3 points out of my schemes, I only missed the second point of Claim Jump because I forgot about the having to keep it above half health, so a good call to have the Grave Golem fling the corpse of a summoned Undergraduate at him.

Summary of how it went: It wen't pretty much according to plan. Very defensive symbol position along with a strong aggressive position in the center caused Reva to act as a Symbols collector and kept her out of the center scrum. It also meant that he didn't have enough resources to break into the center, he managed to contest it until the end but not control it. I also got lucky killing the actual Claim Jumper (Lampad with GST) before it had a chance to do it's thing. It was a bit over exposed and with Valedictorian with an Academic Zeal upgrade already engaging it at 4 or 5 wounds at the start of turn 2 I couldn't resist bringing it down to bring in another model. All Symbols was collected on both sides and the game ended 7-6.

If I had had my brains in place I would probably have acted differently with the Valedictorian and went after the other Lampad who was doing Catch and release. As it were it scored one symbol point and 2 C&R points. It would also have been more in line with my idea to pull her back from the center once the necessary scheming had been done to help protect my symbols.

A good close game, but once I took out the claim jumper and most of the other crew was committed to the center or picking up Symbols, I really only had to score my points and not worry about denying.

Things I would do differently:

  • Not cheat with the zombify trigger on Anna Lovelace... :(
  • Remember that the Claim Jumper needs to be above half health
  • Remember which model my opponent had catch and release on

Special notes on the Student of Viscera: With Killer Instinct, it's so fast. Unimpeded, Ambush, Deadly pursuit. I picked up a symbol with a Necropunk because I could, otherwise the Student of Viscera could have done it pretty much by himself. He's also tanky enough that if the opponent does go for him, it's going to cost him in actions, and if he doesn't kill him it can deadly pursuit out of engagement. In a different crew, with a Carrion Emissary, he can move a whooping 28" (unimpeded) on turn 1 with fast from Von Schtook.

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From my perspective, for the game Emiba posted about, things I would do differently:

  • Throw in the towel on Lampads. They're probably not good enough to force taking two, and definitely not good enough to assign both your schemes to them as the nominated models.
  • Bring Anna Lovelace (if I owned her). Her auras really shut down Von Schtook, ironically. And she has great synergy with the crew anyway.
  • Be really careful of taking models with important TNs into the crew. Had a few times where I faced a choice between a failed TN where I needed a 5 or 6, and all I had to use from my hand was a 10+.
  • Figure out a better way to deal with armor, or a better way to tie up models (possibly just the Toshiro + ashigaru engine).
  • Possibly take The Whisper on Vincent. Due to using focus, it's actually useful to see the top of the deck to make decisions on what actions to take. And he can kill a fair few models when he puts his mind to it, so decent card draw. Something to consider, at least.
    • Or just take more stones for start of turn card re-draw.
  • Mayyyybe try out rogue necromancy, as it feels like it fits the card-usage structure of the crew and benefits from focus.
  • Figure out a more efficient plan for scoring symbols (or denying them might fit better with my playstyle).
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13 minutes ago, Wyamphri said:

Do you still think 1 Lampad, probably with GST, still worth it?

Strictly from a power-gaming perspective? Probably not, unless there's a niche application you're going for. Wanyudo seems better with unimpeded (and costing a stone less). Wanyudo also doesn't need a target number to get its extra movement, and can freely disengage from combat. It just ticks all the scheme running boxes so much more.

From a casual perspective? Yeah, for sure! You can make a single lampad work and get a lot of value out of it. You'll just occasionally have some clunky plays (like spending an 11 to get its bonus action off).

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2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 

  • Figure out a better way to deal with armor, or a better way to tie up models (possibly just the Toshiro + ashigaru engine).

When you find a way to deal with armor please keep us informed, I am looking for ways (anything else as second master) since beta and started to just ignore armored models even though against Von schtook that would be his whole crew 😃

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