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vs neverborn?


Huascar

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I am looking to get into casual Malifaux games playing friend who picked up a large range of neverborn figures - so I doubt he will be playing anything else for a while. Any particular faction that would make or good (or particularly bad) match for neverborn? Not looking for an overwhelming advantage, just want to ensure good close games. I currently have my eye on the Outcast-Parker crew, but willing to try anything except more neverborn. Appreciate any advice.

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The best general advice is Neverborn has very little shooting as a faction, so gun crews, like Parker, do fair better.... most times.

Neverborn have a very large range of abilities, strengths, & weaknesses based on what keyword their using.

Can you narrow it down any?

 

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21 minutes ago, Morkai5 said:

Neverborn is maybe the worst faction nowadays, so, you can pick anything!

That title still goes to guild. And it's not great advice for neverborn because half of the masters are still great, and half the masters range from hyper specialized to just not competitive enough.

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Ressers seem to have quite strong matchups with Neverborn in general, so perhaps avoid those.

That said, the dominant factor in Malifaux is definitely skill, so you can take what you like really. Especially in casual games where you're probably not optimising lists anyway.

EDIT: that said, Dreamer is super, super strong. I wouldn't suggest holding back, he will be winning a lot of games with Dreamer I suspect!

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11 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

That title still goes to guild. And it's not great advice for neverborn because half of the masters are still great, and half the masters range from hyper specialized to just not competitive enough.

I'd say just barely.  Dreamer is great, Nekima and Titania are so-so, the rest are too specialized or inflexible to be viable competitively.  Lucius I'd say is also good in a schemy pool, but he takes soooo much time to learn that the juice is almost not worth the squeeze.

 

17 hours ago, Huascar said:

I am looking to get into casual Malifaux games playing friend who picked up a large range of neverborn figures - so I doubt he will be playing anything else for a while. Any particular faction that would make or good (or particularly bad) match for neverborn? Not looking for an overwhelming advantage, just want to ensure good close games. I currently have my eye on the Outcast-Parker crew, but willing to try anything except more neverborn. Appreciate any advice.

Rezzers would wreck him so I'd avoid that unless you're going to play solely Seamus. 

Guild would be good, but they're arguably tied with NVB for worst faction right now. 

Arcanist has some interesting matchups, but there are a handful of hard counters on both sides (Pandora smashes Toni and Hoffman, but Toni breaks Nekima over her knee every time).

NVB v NVB is actually a pretty interesting matchup, but I'd avoid it for the same reason as Guild.

Outcasts are probably the strongest faction right now, but they do require a little bit of finesse to use correctly (unless you're playing Levi).  The guns available are going to make his life hell though.  Range is a huge advantage, and they have a lot of gunfighter too if needed.

Bayou is good against most of the NVB buuuut aside from Mah, Nekima is a pretty hard counter to most of them, due to the grow mechanic combined with an abundance of shove aside. 9/10 vs not Nekima, 3/10 vs Nekima.  You're probably gonna wanna invest in Tricksy (Mah Tucket).

Ten Thunders present the same issue to NVB as Outcasts: Versatile guns.  Samurai alone counter a LOT of things in the crew, and TT have a lot of ruthless to counter even the good crews like Dreamer.  It's not the worst matchups in the game, but there's a significant uphill battle in a lot of those matchups.

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9 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

Malifaux is quite balanced, and all crews have their distinct flavour. 

This game is a lot of things, but balanced is not one of them.  We all know how bad Guild is, and nobody hides it.  NVB was barely viable pre GG1 and after the changes they've fallen into a virtual tie with Guild due to the Dashel buffs.  Meanwhile 9/10 of the most broken crews are either TT, Outcast, or Rezzer.

It's not completely broken, but we're far from balanced.

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40 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

I'd say just barely.  Dreamer is great, Nekima and Titania are so-so, the rest are too specialized or inflexible to be viable competitively.  Lucius I'd say is also good in a schemy pool, but he takes soooo much time to learn that the juice is almost not worth the squeeze.

Dreamer, Titania, Zoraida and Pandora are all great. Pandora just has some bad match ups. Lucius is really good in scheme pools yeah, but definitely requires a time investment to learn. Euripides runs into problems against opponents who know all his tricks and/or a bunch of anti-marker tech like some factions have. Marcus and Nekima both reside in the area of good damage and mobility but don't have the general survivability to back it up, leading them to be just under-par from a generalized competitive stand-point but still have some good match ups.

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@Nagi21 I’d beg to differ. I’ll give you that Outcast and TT have advantages. In having a good ratio of speed and violence. 
 

But you’re not getting your arse handed to you for choosing Guild or Neverborn. They still put up a fight - and especially to a casual player, I’d just go for what keywords have the coolest models. 

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16 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Dreamer, Titania, Zoraida and Pandora are all great. Pandora just has some bad match ups. Lucius is really good in scheme pools yeah, but definitely requires a time investment to learn. Euripides runs into problems against opponents who know all his tricks and/or a bunch of anti-marker tech like some factions have. Marcus and Nekima both reside in the area of good damage and mobility but don't have the general survivability to back it up, leading them to be just under-par from a generalized competitive stand-point but still have some good match ups.

Zoraida doesn't have a keyword really so she's entirely dependent on your opponent.  Titania can be ok, but is barely hovering the average area.  Pandora is literally feast or famine.  Either she wins hard or she's struggling all game, and it seems the latter more often.

They all have some good matchups, but there's far too many hard counter matchups in each faction.

 

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38 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Zoraida doesn't have a keyword really so she's entirely dependent on your opponent.  Titania can be ok, but is barely hovering the average area.  Pandora is literally feast or famine.  Either she wins hard or she's struggling all game, and it seems the latter more often.

They all have some good matchups, but there's far too many hard counter matchups in each faction.

 

Well, as OP said that their friend has Dreamer (one of the most powerful masters in the game), Lilith, and Nekima (a so-so master), seems a bit misleading to suggest that Neverborn are underpowered in this context.

For OP, you may have some rough games against those masters! Very easy to lose against all of them. If that happens, suggest getting tips in the Outcast forum. There is some useful stuff there! But also if you play well, you should be able to snag your fair share of wins with Parker :)

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On 7/7/2020 at 2:00 AM, Nagi21 said:

Zoraida doesn't have a keyword really so she's entirely dependent on your opponent.

Wait, what?! I would say that she has great keyword - 4 very nice henches, each with different role (Bad Juju is a beast, just don't play him in the open space in open table, First Mate is still First Mate, Spawn Mother can be very nasty board controler and McTavish is a swiss knife). Silurids are wonderful scheme runners, Bokors and Will'o'Wisps are great support models (and the second one can also scheme nice sometimes thanks to ambush). The only thing that doesn't work too well in keyword are Waldgeist if i had to point someone, as they have lost their tankiness from 2nd edition. Thanks to the keyword you may field almost all crew with stealth to counter problematic for Neverborn enemy's "shooting" phase.

 

On 7/5/2020 at 3:00 PM, Huascar said:

I am looking to get into casual Malifaux games playing friend who picked up a large range of neverborn figures - so I doubt he will be playing anything else for a while. Any particular faction that would make or good (or particularly bad) match for neverborn? Not looking for an overwhelming advantage, just want to ensure good close games. I currently have my eye on the Outcast-Parker crew, but willing to try anything except more neverborn. Appreciate any advice.

Overall you should appreciate all kind positive flips to attacks (probably you should go for shooting crew as Neverborn usually loves melee fights) to mitigate concealment, serene countenance and other techs that gives you negative flips to hit, access for focus spam to deal moderate or high damage with good damage track (as Neverborn are rather glass canon, Nekima and Lilith with Nephilims can be quite fast and hit like truck, but can be focused and bringed down, also avoid dealing low damage to activate Black Blood as least as possible). Armor is another nice thing to have, as Neverborn has problems to deal with it (the easiest way is focus spam via Black Blood Shaman and go for moderate/high damage) so it should help you to survive their charge. I don't know outcast well, but two abilities might be laso helpful - laught off to shut down some lures and extended reach so you shut down their charge. That's my 2 cents and that's definetly not all tips for you.

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