Maniacal_cackle Posted June 24, 2020 Report Share Posted June 24, 2020 This thread is for all ressers: master and newbie alike! In this thread we'll all come together to discuss a scheme pool. Ideally some of us will even get to play it! Pool 2: Flank Public Enemies Public Enemies - Flank Deployment 1 Breakthrough 3 Vendetta 4 Assassinate 10 Leave your Mark 13 Runic Binding NOTE: I will curate these pools a bit more as we go forward, mixing up deployments, strategies, and making sure we don't do a scheme more than twice. This particular pool comes from one of the Vassal tournaments happening at the moment so apologies for some scheme double-up. How to participate: Just post! You can post theorycraft about what master or list you'd take into this pool, or you can post a list you want to take into this pool seeking advice, or a battle report of actually playing the pool. If you're not confident posting, I'll slap some templates here that you can steal to make a reply. These are just suggestions, though! Theorycraft: I think <X, Y, or Z> would be good because <reason>. List seeking advice: I am thinking of taking this list or master: ... ... I will be up against <faction or master opponent declared> (if known). I own: <list models or crews>. I think this list will work because <reason>, or I want to try this list because <reason>. Battle report: My list: ... ... Opponents master (or list if you have their whole list) ... ... Outcome and schemes I took: Summary of how it went: Things I would do differently: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2020 Flank deployment with kill strategy and a centre-scheme just screams for our brawler crews (Yan Lo, McMourning, Jack Daw are probably all fantastic for this). That said, I'll probably get some reps in with Molly xD Will post a list soon, I will be up against Zipp this week. So Molly will hopefully pay off as a piano-eater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 So I'm against Zipp, and I'm running: Molly + Necrotic Machine Dead Rider Toshiro, the Daimyo Archie Rabble Riser Gravdigger Crooligan 4 Soulstones For a Toshiro list with scheme markers involved, I'd prefer a 5 stone cache but couldn't find another build I liked. Half the models are only worth one bounty point each, and Toshiro's summoned Ashigaru are awfully hard to kill for just one bounty point each. Dead Rider and Archie give quite solid killing power, but the rest of the crew shouldn't be underestimated. Toshiro ensures minions near him are scary. I've had Ashigaru take down mature neph before! And of course Crooligans represent a mini missile if called for. Zipp is hard to assassinate unless you're using willpower duels, so I'll probably lean away from that one. Scheme marker ones in general are tough against Zipp, but leaning towards Leave Your Mark to force him to come to me to score. Either Vendetta or Breakthrough to follow on top of that I think. Mayyyybe assassinate for one point. Open to any suggestions, though! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedguyjp Posted June 25, 2020 Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 6:35 AM, Maniacal_cackle said: This thread is for all ressers: master and newbie alike! In this thread we'll all come together to discuss a scheme pool. Ideally some of us will even get to play it! Pool 2: Flank Public Enemies Public Enemies - Flank Deployment 1 Breakthrough 3 Vendetta 4 Assassinate 10 Leave your Mark 13 Runic Binding So I only really have experience with Seamus and Reva. McMourning and Yan Lo are on the painting table now but until they're done I'm a little limited. It might be suboptimal but here are my two lists and ideas for Pool 2 with Seamus and Reva. Reva: Reva with KI + 2cc, Toshiro with the Whisper, Manos, 2x Shieldbearers w/ GST. This leaves me with 12 stones and was considering either Wanyudo (leaving 5ss cache) or a Flesh Construct OOK (4 ss cache). With Wanyudo the approach is to have the main crew hold the center and let Wanyudo run the flanks dropping scheme markers. I'd probably focus on Breakthrough/LYM or possibly assassinate depending on my opponent's master/crew. With the Flesh Construct, I think the approach becomes a lot more fighty. Basically hold the center, heal, and kill anything that comes close. Probably LYM/Vendetta. The construct gets a sneaky assist from Toshiro's leadership too which is nice. He can also go fast late game if I need a schemer. I have 3 upgrades which seems like a lot, but I actually thought of putting the whisper on Toshiro to ensure I have the right action order to hit his triggers (mask, ram, crow). Thoughts? Seamus: I had more trouble finding a good list with Seamus. I started with Seamus, Whisper, CCK, Manos, Dead Rider, Doxy, Dandy (for scheme removal), Nurse OOK. that leaves 10 stones and I'm not sure what I'd even add given that I need a decent cache with him. Maybe a sneaky gravedigger to give me scheme options after seeing my opponent's crew? Generally I avoid taking Seamus into a pool like this because it's easy for my opponent to tell that I'd prefer to use Vendetta and Assassinate and plan around it. I usually like taking the Emissary with Seamus for obvious reasons, but I usually have to play him forward to get the corpse on the opponent's table half and he dies too quickly especially in a strategy where the opponent will be likely rushing the center anyways. Thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 @Speedguyjp, interesting setup! For Reva, I'd be wary of the Wanyudo going out on its own. Its an easy two bounty tokens if they can catch it, so maybe be careful if they're an alpha strike crew (Titania, Nekima, Archie, Valedictorian, etc). For Seamus, I have only played him a few times but I find that he doesn't always have to have the corpse marker - he is still a 4 AP master and ridiculous. Especially if you're using him for scheming part of the game, he can set up scheme markers super far away, get in position, etc. So could try using Seamus and not running the emissary forward too quickly? Plus he starts making his own corpse markers pretty quickly! Breakthrough is basically an automatic point with Seamus, and the two points could be doable if you're willing to use him a bit to scheme. Could be a good backup option if the enemy is proving difficult to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted June 25, 2020 Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 Pool 2: Flank Public Enemies Public Enemies - Flank Deployment 1 Breakthrough 3 Vendetta 4 Assassinate 10 Leave your Mark 13 Runic Binding Theorycraft: While this pools calls for Yan Lo or Jack Daw, I'll ponder what to bring with my main: von Schtook. We had a few posts for him last time, but I'll take a different route here. Other than the into-your-face crews, Transmortis is good at dropping schemes along the way or as an additional benefit while hurting your opponent's crew. This means they can add token heavy schemes to a killy strategy. Size: 50 - Pool: 3 Prof. Von Schtook The Whisper Research Assistant The Valedictorian Killer Instinct Undergraduate Undergraduate 2 Necropunk Grave Spirit's Touch Necropunk 2 Grave Spirit's Touch Student of Sinew The only models high in bounty tokens are Schtook and Valedictorian, but those are mandatory for Transmortis. Killer Instinct is optional on Vale. I would be more comfortable with 5 free SS, but if you expect Terrifying, it's good to have and possibly you gain your investment back. This is made possible by Sinew, who can Obey her back into safety after she picked off a target. Do not succumb to the tempation to use it to throw her forward, unless you're VERY sure what you do. Necropunks are already quite tough for their points, but Terrifying and Regen forces the opponent to invest resources to get rid of them, but without much gain. For schemes I would pick Breakthrough + Leave your Mark, but the 2nd one is flexible. Not a fan of Runic Binding though, as it requires the opponent to play along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 @Graf, nice. I especially like the low bounty token availability, and the GST tech to make necropunks ultra tanky (and still only worth one token) is neat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiba Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Graf said: Pool 2: Flank Public Enemies Public Enemies - Flank Deployment 1 Breakthrough 3 Vendetta 4 Assassinate 10 Leave your Mark 13 Runic Binding Theorycraft: The only models high in bounty tokens are Schtook and Valedictorian, but those are mandatory for Transmortis. Killer Instinct is optional on Vale. I would be more comfortable with 5 free SS, but if you expect Terrifying, it's good to have and possibly you gain your investment back. This is made possible by Sinew, who can Obey her back into safety after she picked off a target. Do not succumb to the tempation to use it to throw her forward, unless you're VERY sure what you do. Necropunks are already quite tough for their points, but Terrifying and Regen forces the opponent to invest resources to get rid of them, but without much gain. For schemes I would pick Breakthrough + Leave your Mark, but the 2nd one is flexible. Not a fan of Runic Binding though, as it requires the opponent to play along. My one worry with this crew is that you are really making it valuable for your opponent to go after Valedictorian and Von Schtook without much in the way of deterrence. Valley always have a target painted on her head simply because of what she can do and in this pool she will award 3 tokens and potentially 2 Vendetta points. Your opponent can choose Vendetta on Valley and Assassinate and focus only on your two biggest threats and also be rewarded with bounty tokens. If you are not the killier crew (which seems unlikely) I think this crew will struggle. It's ballsy taking a schemy approach to this pool but I'm not sure if this crew can pull it off against a killier crew. Breakthrough is probably reasonably easy, but the other two schemey schemes are Leave Your Mark which forces you to put your threats in the middle, essentially serving them up to Vendetta and Assassinate, and Runic Binding which could allow you to avoid killing but feels hard. Potentially you can set up the markers around the center, but at that point you are going to have to put down a minimum of 10 scheme markers for 4 points for your schemes. You could probably do Vendetta though by pouncing something with Valley and by your side in an undergraduate end of turn and have Valley slice it up the next turn. I might just be overly pessimistic because I often get smashed though! 😝 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 12 hours ago, emiba said: It's ballsy taking a schemy approach to this pool True, that's me! 😄 Let me elaborate. First: Yes, there are some killy crews against which even I wouldn't take this approach. Nekima is the prime example. Way to much hitting power and mobility everywhere and you don't have enough points for Anna, even though I would really like to have her available. Second: I'm not 100% sure about the 2nd Necropunk, I would prefer to get away with a single one and instead put another Undergraduate (or Student if necessary, but they give extra bounty 😕) into the list. I didn't do that in the previous post for emphasis. Another model to deal damage or eat attacks couldn't hurt with this pool. It just depends on what I expect my opponent to bring to the table. Third: As mentioned, Transmortis can create scheme markers more like a byproduct. Schtook blasts with Gruesome Lecture and switches corpses into schemes. Assistant can change a shockwave into a scheme marker. The Undergraduates' only ability is to change corpses into schemes. Kills mean not only VP from Public Enemy but also VP from Leave your Mark. Basically, the concept is "Why kill 2 models, if I can generate the same amount of VP by killing only one?". Especially for Schtook and his Totem it's actually very handy to pull the enemy into a bubble. It increases their blast damage potential and Schtook's corpse conversion is an AOE. You can convert more corpses at once, if they're close enough to each other. Also you can body block charge lanes easier, which is important to protect Schtook from Assassinate. Undergraduates fulfill this role. For their 6 cost they are not "I scrub the floor with everything" but still the crew's backbone. As soon as the Sinew doesn't have anything better to do (e.g. you lost Vale), he can either charge into the pit as well or switch to offensive obeying. Fourth: Vale has a huge target on her head, I agree. Schtook works well while keeping his distance (still the best way to keep a model safe), but Vale can't. That's why I added the Sinew but left out any additional speed bumps like the Emissary. She can be obeyed into safety but it's important not to send her to far out. Keeping her alive long enough still will be tricky, I can't say this doesn't worry me. Fifth: Breakthrough is a fixed choice. Like I said, the 2nd one is more flexible and it's certainly possible to take Vendetta or Assassinate. I would definitly telegraph the killy schemes, even if I didn't take them. You know... often measuring distances to the enemy's master, asking for HP, stuff like that. Keep the opponent guessing while I'm possibly safer in my assumptions about their schemes. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Played the pool! I had my crew from above: Molly + Necrotic Machine Dead Rider Toshiro, the Daimyo Archie Rabble Riser Gravedigger Crooligan 4 Soulstones He had: Zipp + Earl The First Mate Mancha Roja Gracie Merris LaCroix (for scheme marker placement, very effective). Mightnight Stalker 7 stones or something, can't remember. I won by a pretty big lead (declared me the winner early in turn 3). MVP: Necrotic Machine. This guy has so many uses, I'm still learning them all. This time I used Neurotoxins + accomplice a beater. Attacked Mancha Roja to put poison on, then accompliced straight into Dead Rider with the idea that he wouldn't have time to move away again and I could kill his Mancha (no nasty defensive trigger, no soulstones due to Neurotoxins). I ended up flipping the red joker for damage with the machine as well, making it massively overkill. Toshiro... The Ashigaru were a bit useful and really soaked some hits, but definitely felt like he and the Gravedigger were not doing that much during the game. I wonder if a grave golem in his slot would have been more relevant? Rogue Necromancy could have been a good choice as well (and combos well with Necrotic Machine). It was an extremely maneuver-based game, with us both taking Breakthrough and Vendetta. So Archie, Dead Rider, and the Crooligan served me well. We did have a brawl in the centre though (I think we both assumed the other was on Leave Your Mark). The rabble riser was surprisingly relevant, dishing out more than its fair share of damage. Definitely liking it for a 6 stone model in Public Enemies. Archie's card awkwardness was very frustrating, as usual, but can be worked around. Often meant I didn't have a card for other things (like cheating the Dead Rider's TNs for example). I also kept messing up Molly's positioning. Hard to balance between LOS for Lethe's Caress and movement for relevant abilities. I definitely would like more ways to get her moving around the table, every one of her actions feels massively impactful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpyfjord Posted June 29, 2020 Report Share Posted June 29, 2020 Are you in a two masters allowed locale? It has heavy effect on a Public Enemies list in my experience. In general I have found public enemies particularly low scoring. So scheme scoring rises. Also, I’m an Arc player but have been flipping through Resser cards. So this is untested. Ressers - Pool 2 (Resurrectionist) Size: 50 - Pool: 6 Leader: Yan Lo The Whisper Totem(s): Soul Porter Hires: Komainu Komainu 2 Sun Quiang Toshiro, The Daimyo The Whisper Gokudo Chiaki, The Beacon Might be carrying too many Public Enemy points. I’m not convinced about the whispers or Gokudo. I think Chiaki/Toshiro lets the minions up the ladder activating Vendetta and better public enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2020 12 hours ago, Stumpyfjord said: Are you in a two masters allowed locale? It has heavy effect on a Public Enemies list in my experience. In general I have found public enemies particularly low scoring. So scheme scoring rises. Also, I’m an Arc player but have been flipping through Resser cards. So this is untested. Ressers - Pool 2 (Resurrectionist) Size: 50 - Pool: 6 Leader: Yan Lo The Whisper Totem(s): Soul Porter Hires: Komainu Komainu 2 Sun Quiang Toshiro, The Daimyo The Whisper Gokudo Chiaki, The Beacon Might be carrying too many Public Enemy points. I’m not convinced about the whispers or Gokudo. I think Chiaki/Toshiro lets the minions up the ladder activating Vendetta and better public enemies. I don't know Yan Lo that well, but some thoughts. Toshiro does much better with corpse marker generation (so he can summon). Although I hear he isn't great in Yan Lo crews, I'm not sure of that claim. If you're in public enemies you might want some of the killer models of the crew. Izamu especially seems good (and his reliquary gives another model armor). And Manos cannot be overlooked. I think it is okay to take costly models with Yan Lo in public enemies as the crew is so durable, but not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpyfjord Posted June 30, 2020 Report Share Posted June 30, 2020 Certainly would help if I read the whole ability. Definitely would need a corpse generator. Hmmm...back to the drawing board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 Yeah, I'm for sure no Yan Lo expert, I've only seen him on the field, not played him myself. Despite that I'm sure that crew wouldn't work well. While they are expensive and therefore worth quite some Public Enemies points, I still think this master wants them, even if just to be able to get some VP himself. To balance this out, you employ the crew's resilience. Sun Quiang is a good choice. Izamu imho is a must have. Armour +2, Ruthless, Obey immune, self heal and a 2" min 3 attack with Flurry? Can't pass that up. Manos is great if you take at least one schemy scheme, regenerates and is still decent in a fight. The issue with Toshiro, in my opinion, is more that those other models are more important for the crew than him and you have only so many SS available. But it's true, he isn't as useful as in other Ressers lists, simply because Leadership and Daimyo's Gift do not have the same impact with so many Henchmen/Enforcers to invest in. What I'm not sure about is if I would take Gokudo or Komainu as Retainers. Their Armor +2 and Take the Hit seem quite nice for Public Enemies, but Gokudo still look good. I guess while I would always take the ninjas otherwise, in this case it might be more like a 50/50? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unti Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 I had a public enemies game with different schemes this weekend with Jack daw against victorias and I have to say JD is awesome in this strategy. He and his keyword is very surviveable and you put a big target on anything with an upgrade and staggered for yourselfe to focus down. Assassinate, leave your mark (put a drowned and jakuuna in the middle and nothing will survive there) and vendetta(probably a hanged can do it) should be possible schemes for tormented keyword. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, unti said: I had a public enemies game with different schemes this weekend with Jack daw against victorias and I have to say JD is awesome in this strategy. He and his keyword is very surviveable and you put a big target on anything with an upgrade and staggered for yourselfe to focus down. Assassinate, leave your mark (put a drowned and jakuuna in the middle and nothing will survive there) and vendetta(probably a hanged can do it) should be possible schemes for tormented keyword. Yeah, I had thought Jack Daw would be awesome! Do you remember what deployment type you were on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unti Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) It was wedge, I think anything but corner is fine for him Edited July 5, 2020 by unti Added a pic of the board 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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