The Model Not Taken

[Drowsheep]

Hey!

 

In one of the other groups, we were talking about updating models that need a little love.  I think Ten Thunders has been pretty fortunate in that most of the thematic crews are pretty solid--and we have a wide range of versatile models that fit in good with thematic crews, or serve crucial roles that we want filled.

Are there any models that you can think of that need a little love?  Maybe they just never leave your minis case, or maybe you never picked them up because they couldn't compete with other models in the faction/keyword?

 

Here are some of the models that come to mind when looking through our faction:

Thunder Archer--I love Archers--they're one of the models that actually got me into the game.  But they just never seem worth it to take in a Last-Blossom list as there just seem to be better options.  Meanwhile, as the main "fire-line" for Shenlong, you'd think I'd want to take them--but I never do.  They just don't seem to mesh as well with Shenlong's crew that well.

Shadow Emissary--this might be a controversial one.  I don't think he's worth 10ss.  I have a gorgeous looking model a friend of mine painted and sculpted that I long to put on the table--but the few times I have, it's been underwhelming at best.

Yamaziko--we all remember the glory days of late 2e when she was in every single list that declared TT or Misaki.  While she's the cheapest of the Henchmen that Misaki can bring in-keyword, she just never seems to make it too the table, as she's competing with two henchmen that seem better even if they are more expensive, or elite minions that do a lot for me scheme/strat-wise.  I kind of wish her damage track was 3/3/4 again.  Or that something was slightly different in a good way for her--as she too is one of my oldest and more favorite models.

Kunoichi--I love the sculpts, I love the models, I even like them on paper.  I bring them a lot when I take Youko--but they never really hold their weight for a 6ss model.  They definitely have more going on than Geisha, but they seem less useful than both Geisha and Bunraku.  Usually after a turn or two I'm wishing I could trade out these ladies for the other gals or the puppets.

Kang--I never was really in love with Kang.  Don't get me wrong; Mei Fang's one of my gals.  She's so solid.  But I'd rather take Sparks, or the Golem, or just a swarm of Gaimin and Rail Workers and Survivors.  I just don't know what Kang needs--but it's something to compete with the plethora of options that Mei has at her disposal.

Low River Monks--I actually haven't really used these guys that much in 3e.  I miss them not doing any damage and having Ml 7.  I'm not sure I'll ever be in love with them again unless they go back to that.  But they just don't seem to be worth it considering the other options at Shenlong's disposal.

 

Neil Henry--Okay, okay--I know, Henry isn't TT, but he is in Keyword, so let me say my piece.  Like Kang, Henry is just meh compared to everything else.  He's kind of expensive and is designed to kill stuff--but I have multiple other options that also kill things, and that I think kill things better.  

 

While there are a few other models I generally don't take, that's generally because they aren't a part of my play-style--though I can clearly see that they function at what they do.  I usually just don't do that.  So the above models are models I *want* to take, but don't.

 

All that being said; I think TT is very fortunate.  We have a lot of playable models and a lot of playable crews that can be thematic and still competitive or fun.  All in all, I really love this faction, and am super glad that Misaki's crew and those Ten Thunder Archers looked as cool as they did when I decided to grab the boxes and give this game a go!

[Wakefield]

Shadow Emissary?! Not worth 10 stones?!?!

Be still my heart. 

Dragon is definitely worth his weight IMO. Good min 3 beater with utility and a lot of incidental duels. But then again I run McCabe a lot.

Kunoichi are...they're probably my favorite bad model. The assassination vector with them and distracted is great to set up if you can but they're skirmishers and they aren't really Frontline fighters. 

My least taken model is Ruffian. They serve no purpose except to drop schemes for Hucksters. They're just trash. 

Avoiding cheating on just a bad minion.

I don't really like Graves. He's a ruthless beater for Honeypot. How lovely. He has the GALL to cost 8 stones. If you're taking him what for? You just want to use Keeping the Peace? Brother is cheaper. Lead the Way? Short range. Not really amazing when you already have beckoners. Bodyguard is good but stay out of one inch! He's a serviceable piece but...man. I never seem to have luck. 

[Drowsheep]

13 hours ago, Wakefield said:

Shadow Emissary?! Not worth 10 stones?!?!

Be still my heart. 

Dragon is definitely worth his weight IMO. Good min 3 beater with utility and a lot of incidental duels. But then again I run McCabe a lot.

Kunoichi are...they're probably my favorite bad model. The assassination vector with them and distracted is great to set up if you can but they're skirmishers and they aren't really Frontline fighters. 

My least taken model is Ruffian. They serve no purpose except to drop schemes for Hucksters. They're just trash. 

Avoiding cheating on just a bad minion.

I don't really like Graves. He's a ruthless beater for Honeypot. How lovely. He has the GALL to cost 8 stones. If you're taking him what for? You just want to use Keeping the Peace? Brother is cheaper. Lead the Way? Short range. Not really amazing when you already have beckoners. Bodyguard is good but stay out of one inch! He's a serviceable piece but...man. I never seem to have luck. 

Ha!  Maybe I should get the dragon back onto the table and try them out again!  It's been a minute.

Yeah, Kunoichi while once in a blue moon will do something, but mostly just meander across the board without making it worth it.

I personally love Ruffians, but you need two for them to be good, so at that point I suppose you could just get something else that's more efficient for the cost--they're probably my "favorite bad model" XD

Yeah, Graves, I suppose does less than I'd like--but occasionally he hits something really hard for me, and that makes up for it I suppose?

[LeperColony]

3 minutes ago, Drowsheep said:

Yeah, Kunoichi while once in a blue moon will do something, but mostly just meander across the board without making it worth it.

I haven't used them in M3E, but I have played against them twice and I agree that they seem a little underwhelming.

[Drowsheep]

5 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

I haven't used them in M3E, but I have played against them twice and I agree that they seem a little underwhelming.

I think they've done some good work for me maybe thrice; usually right after Youko has given someone a lot of distracted and then they charged in and dealt some real damage.  But other than that, I don't think they do too much. XD

[OracleToronto]

Kunoichi are actually solid if you back them up with Yamaziko (though the same case can be made for pretty much all minions especially card hungry ones) I brought Yama into my Qi and Gong list and stacked some distracted onto a model and sent in a Kunoichi against it inside Yama's 6" aura that gives all minions plus flips to all duels. Discarding a low rams to add them to my attacks (from tools for the job) and the Kunoichi hit twice with a positive flip stat 6 attack with a damage spread of 4,5,6. The model had hard to kill so it survived and got to attack back but it was at negative flips due to distracted and the Kunoichi had a positive flip for it's defence. 

the other synergies that the Kunoichi have with Yama are that they both shut down charge attacks and if Yama gets stuck into a nasty scrap the Kunoichi can use "i've got your back" to pull her out and it only needs a 4+ and would also be receiving the plus flips (as it isn't just opposed duels) 

I just wish adding Yama helped the Geisha stay alive ... i mean she does but df 4 with 4 health even a positive flip isn't going to keep them on the table. They need some serious love - i'd suggest manipulative at least, and/or bumped to 5 health. Another suggestion would be to give their Sharp Wit melee attack a 2" range that way if they hit someone who has a 1" or less melee range to give them slow they can't swing back. The geisha do no damage during their turn and their main trick (lure) is on multiple models in the keyword ... all of which can actually take a hit. 

 

[Ogid]

I play way more NVB than thunders but I do like (and play) some of the models of your list... 

Yamaziko make into my Misaki crews frecuently. Her damage isn't really hight but She isn't going in as a damage dealer but for her utility and versatility. Extended Reach may keep her and other models alive, she is the only model with a built in tomes for 2 possible built in triggers (one of which gives both card draw and pass tokens which is just bonkers and not hard to get with the ammount of marker the crew generates), the aura works for every single duel your minions make (attack, defense, terrifying, shockwaves, tactical actions... which make them way better and relieve pressure from the hand if you rely on high TNs like all the Tanuki abilities) and she has other 2 possible bonus actions, one of which may let her drop 2 schemes per turn (or letting her move 12'') and the other making her even tankier. And master tactician, even if situational, can destroy the hand of careless masters that like to dive (which opens a window of oportunity for other models to strike or for Misaki's Execute). And all of that for 7SS.

Kunoichis are another jack of all trades I like; tho it's true they aren't super flashy nor fast, they are set up intensive for damage and more expensive models can overpower them if they have the right abilities/actions. I understand the complains because I also felt their limitations in some games, but in others they performed fine. The first turn she always give Focused+2 to my beater of choice (with some chip damage that my healer handle/get regenerated or pasively healed after it), after that she is a flexible model not that easy to kill with her defensive tech and able to support my other models either by keeping the ping damage up while giving focused and repositioning my models with her tactical or able to get some damage under certain circunstances (isolated/lured models or Distracted+2 stacked); and in a pinch she isn't useless going on her own to drop a scheme as she can disengage with Reposition and has some threat versus isolated models (tho she is slow for the scheme runner standars and can't double scheme). And the extra good card from Tools for the Job and them as a cheap source of pass tokens is valuable. I wouldn't mind her getting some minor buff tho.

Low river for 4SS heal a lot, specially in a Shenlong crew with the extra chi (and are the cheapest Chi batteries); for 5SS as OOK I personally rather the Tanuki.

I'm on the fence about the Emissary as I've not played him yet; but at least with Asami to cicle the hand looking for a 13 has to be golden (specially because Ama can make him take that action twice to skyrocket the chances to get the card to put a Jorogumo on the table).

23 hours ago, OracleToronto said:

I just wish adding Yama helped the Geisha stay alive ... i mean she does but df 4 with 4 health even a positive flip isn't going to keep them on the table. They need some serious love - i'd suggest manipulative at least, and/or bumped to 5 health. Another suggestion would be to give their Sharp Wit melee attack a 2" range that way if they hit someone who has a 1" or less melee range to give them slow they can't swing back. The geisha do no damage during their turn and their main trick (lure) is on multiple models in the keyword ... all of which can actually take a hit. 

I need to test them more but so far I'm kind of liking them. They do die too easily versus anything that has ranged attacks or some kind of jump, so versus these kind of crews they are a big no-no unless they plan to hug Bill or something with take the hit (so it's true they maybe could use some defensive buff... I like that +1Wd idea); but versus mostly mele crews they can be very annoying. Her Lure is stat 6, which is really high for a 4SS model (the only other stat 6 lure in keyword is 9SS Hinamatsu), her sharp wit is affected by her distraction aura and that's incredible accurate for a 4SS model (and she can always charge, slow the model and then disengage to leave that model in a really akward position as she has Disguised). Another dangerous thing is move and Lure a model so it ends within the Distraction aura but not engaged with her (now that model is at risk of getting the full barrage of Youko's Wp abilities with  to duels while needing 2 AP to try to kill a 4SS model)