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Do we know how to resolve Molly's Premonition bonus ability yet?


Maniacal_cackle
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Just had a look through the FAQ and couldn't find anything definitive about Premonition (although I may have missed a similar ruling). The ability reads:

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Any number of friendly models within :new-Pulse:4 may discard a card to gain Focused +1 and Push up to 2" in any direction.

So this leaves the question: do all the models discard at the same time, or do they do it one by one? Do you...

  • Measure the pulse and determine which models are eligible.
  • Discard a card for all models that are eligible.
  • Then one by one, give each model that discarded focus + a 2" push.

Or do you...

  • Measure the pulse and determine which models are eligible.
  • One by one, discard a card for a model and give it focus + 2" push.

If it is the second one, you could do something like have Philip and the Nanny near a rabble riser discarding which gives them both focus, then Philip and the Nanny discards to move next to a night terror, then night terror discards to give P&N a 5" push.

As far as I can tell, it is still ambiguous. Is that correct?

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The effect of the pulse is:

Quote

may discard a card to gain Focused +1 and Push up to 2" in any direction

so how you resolve that is:

  1. Determine which models are affected by the pulse.
  2. For each model affected by the pulse, choose one to resolve the effects of the pulse.
  3. Repeat step 2 until there are no remaining affected models that have not resolved the pulse.

For the record, that's the same as:

  1. Determine which models are affected by the pulse.
  2. Apply Simultaneous Effects on those models.

In order for the proposed alternative to even be considered, you'd have to invent a few paragraphs of rules about resolving pulse effects in "lock step" or something (like the pre-errata simultaneous damage rules).

 

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That seems pretty compelling! Although from the FAQ, I get the impression that 'effect' refers to smaller chunks (for example, ignoring a bury doesn't ignore everything else). So it may make sense to view the pulse as creating a few effects.

Also doesn't quite cover the "resolve in the order on the card".

Still, it is my preferred method. Just to check, would people say this works then:

  • Molly pulses
  • Night Terror discards next to Philip and the Nanny.
  • Generates fading for both Philip and the Nanny and the Night Terror (but still resolving pulse)
  • Night terror moves and focuses.
  • Philip and the Nanny discards and pushes 2" to be next to a crooligan
  • Crooligan discards
  • Generates a fading for both crooligan and Philip.
  • Molly pulse finished.
  • Resolve fading for night terror (move)
  • Resolve fading for Philip (move)
  • Resolve fading for crooligan (eat a scheme marker)
  • Resolve fading for Philip and the Nanny (eat a scheme marker).

So from Molly pulse, the crooligan eats a scheme marker up to 4" away from its original position (2+2) and Philip eats one up to 9" away from original position (2+5+2)?

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For Philip his ability states "after", so I think you would do Molly's ability, everyone who is going to discard discards, focuses, and pushes, and then Philip does his ability.  In the rules it says if the ability has the word after in it, it happens after the other ability resolves.

So I take that to mean all of Molly's ability resolves, and then Philip gets to do his thing.

 

Edit to say: though if Philip is w/in range of multiple Fading triggers, he might get to do them in whatever order he wants--it just all happens after the other ones happen.

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On 6/23/2020 at 6:01 AM, Drowsheep said:

For Philip his ability states "after", so I think you would do Molly's ability, everyone who is going to discard discards, focuses, and pushes, and then Philip does his ability.  In the rules it says if the ability has the word after in it, it happens after the other ability resolves.

So I take that to mean all of Molly's ability resolves, and then Philip gets to do his thing.

 

Edit to say: though if Philip is w/in range of multiple Fading triggers, he might get to do them in whatever order he wants--it just all happens after the other ones happen.

Yeah, the key quesiton of timing is for measurement (when does Philip and the Nanny to be near the discard - presumably when the discard actually happens, not when you're resolving the ability). So in that way, P&N can have fading from a model that is no longer near them? And can get fading from multiple models that are far apart from the same event?

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10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, the key quesiton of timing is for measurement (when does Philip and the Nanny to be near the discard - presumably when the discard actually happens, not when you're resolving the ability). So in that way, P&N can have fading from a model that is no longer near them? And can get fading from multiple models that are far apart from the same event?

I think you measure for when the card discards.  Philip's ability is focused on the act of discarding.

So Molly does her ability; three models discard cards.  These trigger their Fading.  Philip gets his ability from to go off, and then everyone who discarded pushed.  Then fading happens, and it seems like Philip would get the fading buffs as you trigger those fading buffs.

So if you discard a card for a rabble-rouser, a Crooligan, and Archie, if you do it in that order, I think Philip--if he's in range of all three, gets all three.  However, the R.R. gets his bonus, then Philip does, then the Crooligan does theirs, and Philip does as well, and then Archie does his, followed again by Philip.

But Philip is based off of discarding the card itself--and less about the ability happening.  So I think as long as they're in range when they discard, he gets the benefit even if they are pushed out of range after the discard happens.

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10 hours ago, Drowsheep said:

I think you measure for when the card discards.  Philip's ability is focused on the act of discarding.

So Molly does her ability; three models discard cards.  These trigger their Fading.  Philip gets his ability from to go off, and then everyone who discarded pushed.  Then fading happens, and it seems like Philip would get the fading buffs as you trigger those fading buffs.

So if you discard a card for a rabble-rouser, a Crooligan, and Archie, if you do it in that order, I think Philip--if he's in range of all three, gets all three.  However, the R.R. gets his bonus, then Philip does, then the Crooligan does theirs, and Philip does as well, and then Archie does his, followed again by Philip.

But Philip is based off of discarding the card itself--and less about the ability happening.  So I think as long as they're in range when they discard, he gets the benefit even if they are pushed out of range after the discard happens.

Hmmm... So if I understand this correctly, you're on the other side from Solkan.

So probably best to write it off as still ambiguous until we get another FAQ!

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13 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hmmm... So if I understand this correctly, you're on the other side from Solkan.

So probably best to write it off as still ambiguous until we get another FAQ!

I could be wrong in my order of operations, but I think Solkan and I come to same conclusion, that Philip would get the benefit of anyone he's in range of when they discard their card, prior to their push or their Fading ability, no?

Even if you did each card before doing all of the subsequent fading abilities. 

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3 hours ago, Drowsheep said:

I could be wrong in my order of operations, but I think Solkan and I come to same conclusion, that Philip would get the benefit of anyone he's in range of when they discard their card, prior to their push or their Fading ability, no?

Even if you did each card before doing all of the subsequent fading abilities. 

I think yes to the first part, but the second part makes a difference.

If you discard for all then push for all, it is all based off initial position.

If you discard and push for each model one by one, P&N can move closer to a model before it discards.

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