Neverborn v. Rezzer

[Trample]

On 5/28/2020 at 10:57 PM, Nagi21 said:

  I mean I look at someone like Von Schtook and his crew looks almost pound for pound as murder-y as a Nekima crew, but he has absurd tankiness behind it and summoning.  If NVB are a glass cannon that's an M1A1...

I absolutely agree that Von Schtook's keyword is hands down better than Nekima, but I don't think they are as murder-y! Nekima and a pair of matures, all probably loaded with focused, can lay down more damage than a focused Valedictorian and her friends. That isn't really the argument you're making though, and I do agree with the underlying point that Transmortis can throw out the damage, and tank, and draw cards, and move all over the place. 

[Ogid]

@Maniacal_cackle I generally like to go into a game with a plan and Seamus mobility and damage is tricky to plan around...

I had thought about things like displacing him, but he can be more than half table away to the point where he is going to attack, and he is not alone; the odds that I see an opening to send a model to mess with him going through all his crew doesn't sounds high. If for some reason he stays near of a model able to do that, I'd consider it (in fact that's why WW is in my list of posible models for the match up); but not as my main plan to mess with his combo. Also killing a RES crew fast isn't a cake walk, so that's not something I want to rely on too heavily.

The most dangerous move I see in his set is: Teleport in, Big shot, (eat corpse) Big shot, teleport out. That's not only 8-16 damage but also put him out of retaliation range; picking the right models and with a bit of luck (and several SS) I might endure that, but it might also put me out of the game fast; so the focus of my set up is denying that planning around the thing I can control: Models able to not get one shoted/cheap ones that I don't mind that much losing (+not feeding him corpse) and that he needs corpses/zombis near of my crew to do that: So I want to either remove the corpses as fast as they get generated or in worst case scenario at least displacing zombis so he needs to sacrifice the teleport out to shot 2 times, something that would give me the chance to punish him. I don't know if it's a good plan tho XD.

But anyway, I've got some extra good ideas from this thread to work with; I didn't notice his ability need to target corpses (hence LoS is needed) so a Sz2+ 40mm+ model may deny it by just siting on them, and removing the coffin may also work well in a pinch.

Still looking forward to hear how other NVB players play this match up!

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Ogid one last thing - his ability doesn't do 8 damage, it does 4/6/8. So he needs his focus engines to do all that damage, otherwise he will be more like "Focus > teleport > big shot > teleport."

So making sure to strip focus where possible is useful too.

[Ogid]

56 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

@Ogid one last thing - his ability doesn't do 8 damage, it does 4/6/8. So he needs his focus engines to do all that damage, otherwise he will be more like "Focus > teleport > big shot > teleport."

So making sure to strip focus where possible is useful too.

That's true... I'm planning for worst case scenaros, but I guess those focus engines should be common on his lists.

For example, with just a Dead Dandy and a Gravedigger(10SS) it's possible to give him Focused+2 each turn (one of them being a pulse, it requires flips and a 5 for the second Focused tho), and with the mobility of Seamus those 2 models could be safe enough in the back moving from blocking terrain to blocking terrain; but other very good models like Nurses, Toshiro or Molly may also give him Focused +1 consistently enough. In games all get more messy, so I can see him sometimes not getting all the support he needs / bad cards or a BJ; but I can't count on that.

Also controlling his Focused isn't easy taking in count his mobility and Wp7, even with the Woes that are one of the best in the game at doing that (up there with Justice jumping in his face and using Restore the Natural Order). These are my main options:

• The Carver or Pandora are the only ones with a decent chance (max range of 18/20'' and succeed automatically after going through his Terrifying), and even them couldn't do it if Seamus take advantage of the up to 23.2'' he can be away from his target.
• Insidious Madness' Disembodied Voices bypass the Wp (but with a range of move + DV of only 9'' and being one-shoteable); they could do it from anywhere using other nightmares as proxys; but putting a nightmare near of him and make it survive an enemy activation isn't an easy feat (and the other player may just reposition Seamus/lure or push the nightmare).
• Eldritch Magic is stat 6 range 6 using 1 AP (on top of the rest of the upgrade being pretty bad); that's hardly an option.

In the game he won't be able to use every last inch of range and as I know who are the ones giving him Focused, I could plan around it if I get the debuffers (or just try and kill those), but again taking in count the ranges, possible terrain and the risk of my model getting killed by the rest of his crew if I overextend them, it's not something that I think I could pull off consistently.

A Seamus played safely seems very hard to get debuffed/controlled; and that's OK, but I'm trying to evaluate my options and make a reliable plan for this game; maybe you are right and I'm too scared of his damage...

But this is a game I know I'm going to play sooner of later and it's not going to be easy, a friend of mine and a very good player plays him (we haven't played yet for Covid and IRL stuff, but I've heard stories of him "terrorizing" the local meta XD). I don't expect a bad list or sloppy plays from him and I know he likes to kill first and ask questions later so I'm sure he won't use him just to scheme and won't forget the Focused engine at home... I better go with a rock solid plan into that game 

[Plaag]

On 5/29/2020 at 4:25 AM, Nagi21 said:

So I've been playing 3e since just after beta, and something that has become apparent to me, is that aside from Dreamer (possibly with zoraida), all of our crews are hard countered by at least one thing in Rezzers hard enough that the matchup is borderline unplayable.  Even if you take out the bad crews (Reva, Seamus), they seem to have an answer for everything we do, and do everything we do better.  Examples:

- Pandora loses terribly because the Daw bubble beats hers, and the other options in the faction outmanuver her easily (looking at you molly...), plus there's Archie.

- Titania can somewhat keep up, but the lack of mobility and lack of damage means that they continually heal and outlast you.

- Nekima doesn't hit hard enough to get through the main beaters of the faction, and is not tanky enough to last (Von Schtook is basically the Rezzer nephilim crew but better since they have actual defenses and card draw)

- Euri is a non-factor since the most popular crew right now (VS) eats his models easily for free summons.  Also Kirai and Molly give 0 shits about ice pillars.

- Lucius dies to Anna and company.

 

Call it ranting if you want, but while there are some matchups that aren't bad, the possibility of blind picking an unfavorable match-up makes anything other than Dreamer too risky to play into Rezzers.

its all wrong, and seamus is one of the best masters of ressers if u can play him

[Trample]

Seamus has a pretty terrible defense and, aside from the dreaded terrifying, only has HTK as defensive tech. If you can get to him you have a pretty good chance of taking him out quickly. He has great mobility with his Secret Passage, but he can still only get so far away from you and retain his ability to impact the game at any given time. There are a lot of ways for the Neverborn, which are pretty quick, to get to him and put damage into him. Get started on it early and keep at it. He can heal, but only once per activation on his own, so wounds mean a lot to him. He will likely only be one of 2-3 models in the crew with any real damage output, so if you concentrate on him you can really mess him up. If you can gain the last activation and get to him with a speedy model, even with one attack, and win initiative (Ancient Pact) for the next turn, Seamus is toast. 

Take henchmen who can stone to put him on a negative flip or cheap models. Don't take enforcers with 7 wounds against him. He'll feast on those. 

One of the really good ways for Neverborn to take out Seamus is to put him in a position where it is difficult for him to use Secret Passage. Although it's not a cakewalk by any stretch, they do have several ways to accomplish this. The Nephilims' Shove Aside trigger, Teddy's Bowled Over, and Titania's Into Thorns are good examples. Without a corpse around, he can't Secret Passage if he isn't near blocking terrain. So stone for that trigger and move him into a position that takes away his second best action. 

Think about a model like the Grootslang perhaps (although an enforcer that I said you shouldn't take). He can have lair markers positioned where you think Seamus will be at the end of the turn, jump there, with lair to lair, ambush if needed and hit Seamus with a Barbed Tongue attack and the high ram you saved to move him out of blocking terrain and the 9+ you saved to pass terrifying (it isn't easy). He can't now Secret Passage and he's slow! You're going first next round (Ancient Pact) and will hit him with a focused claw attack (depending on your hand - you don't want to pass that terrifying twice) that will likely do 6 damage because Seamus is slow. He starts the turn with 4 wounds remaining (although he'll spend stones), engaged, slow, unable to use secret passage, has to face penetrating stench (Seamus really needs his cards). You've burned a lot of cards to get to this point, but the pressure is now on him and not you. 

The Hooded Rider would be a great model to take him out with his speed and ruthless, but probably a little too risky. Seamus can one-shot the rider with the RJ unless you've got fate tokens to spend. If you save thim for defense he is a model that can chase down Seamus, but I probably wouldn't risk it. 

 

[Plaag]

3 hours ago, Trample said:

Seamus has a pretty terrible defense and, aside from the dreaded terrifying, only has HTK as defensive tech. If you can get to him you have a pretty good chance of taking him out quickly. He has great mobility with his Secret Passage, but he can still only get so far away from you and retain his ability to impact the game at any given time. There are a lot of ways for the Neverborn, which are pretty quick, to get to him and put damage into him. Get started on it early and keep at it. He can heal, but only once per activation on his own, so wounds mean a lot to him. He will likely only be one of 2-3 models in the crew with any real damage output, so if you concentrate on him you can really mess him up. If you can gain the last activation and get to him with a speedy model, even with one attack, and win initiative (Ancient Pact) for the next turn, Seamus is toast. 

Take henchmen who can stone to put him on a negative flip or cheap models. Don't take enforcers with 7 wounds against him. He'll feast on those. 

One of the really good ways for Neverborn to take out Seamus is to put him in a position where it is difficult for him to use Secret Passage. Although it's not a cakewalk by any stretch, they do have several ways to accomplish this. The Nephilims' Shove Aside trigger, Teddy's Bowled Over, and Titania's Into Thorns are good examples. Without a corpse around, he can't Secret Passage if he isn't near blocking terrain. So stone for that trigger and move him into a position that takes away his second best action. 

Think about a model like the Grootslang perhaps (although an enforcer that I said you shouldn't take). He can have lair markers positioned where you think Seamus will be at the end of the turn, jump there, with lair to lair, ambush if needed and hit Seamus with a Barbed Tongue attack and the high ram you saved to move him out of blocking terrain and the 9+ you saved to pass terrifying (it isn't easy). He can't now Secret Passage and he's slow! You're going first next round (Ancient Pact) and will hit him with a focused claw attack (depending on your hand - you don't want to pass that terrifying twice) that will likely do 6 damage because Seamus is slow. He starts the turn with 4 wounds remaining (although he'll spend stones), engaged, slow, unable to use secret passage, has to face penetrating stench (Seamus really needs his cards). You've burned a lot of cards to get to this point, but the pressure is now on him and not you. 

The Hooded Rider would be a great model to take him out with his speed and ruthless, but probably a little too risky. Seamus can one-shot the rider with the RJ unless you've got fate tokens to spend. If you save thim for defense he is a model that can chase down Seamus, but I probably wouldn't risk it. 

 

probably you have not seen good seamus players

[Trample]

6 hours ago, Plaag said:

probably you have not seen good seamus players

 I'm not sure what gives you that impression but the opposite is true. Perhaps you ought to reread what I said and see if maybe you can pull something from it to help your game or, at the very least, offer something other than comments like the above or this one:

20 hours ago, Plaag said:

its all wrong, and seamus is one of the best masters of ressers if u can play him

Neither of those really helps achieve the thread's goal of finding strategies to combat Ressers. 

[Ogid]

On 9/8/2020 at 5:04 AM, Trample said:

Seamus has a pretty terrible defense and, aside from the dreaded terrifying, only has HTK as defensive tech. If you can get to him you have a pretty good chance of taking him out quickly.

The thing that scares me if that I've played with Nekima and I know how to keep her safe even if she is pure glass while still doing damage. Positioning and a good cache help a lot defending those models; specially if models trying to chase them are at risk of being in the receiving end of a ludicrous damage track when that model activates again or swarmed by the rest of the crew.

Seamus has 1 less Df point but better Defensive tech and that 12'' place, the damage both can do is simmilar (maybe Nekima one is a bit higher with IR if she goes all in without retreating, which isn't the best idea anyway). But Seamus can be half a table away from the point he strikes way easily than Nekima. Chasing a model with the mobility and punch of Seamus could end with models kited to death. On top of being a way better schemer than her...

Again, I'm maybe overthinking the match, but with the experience I have with the game, I see him very scary. Near of Nekima's level of damage, but more versatile and with less weaknesses in a faction that is hard to tackle for NVB anyway... He doesn't seem umbeatable, but it's a match that has to be very well planned if the Seamus player knows how to push his advantages.

On 9/8/2020 at 5:04 AM, Trample said:

There are a lot of ways for the Neverborn, which are pretty quick, to get to him and put damage into him. Get started on it early and keep at it. He can heal, but only once per activation on his own, so wounds mean a lot to him. He will likely only be one of 2-3 models in the crew with any real damage output, so if you concentrate on him you can really mess him up. If you can gain the last activation and get to him with a speedy model, even with one attack, and win initiative (Ancient Pact) for the next turn, Seamus is toast.

Invading is also how I plan to try to take on him after working to deny his two shots; he can only double shot on my table half, so ironically my models are safer going balls deep; however the line between chasing and overextending is slim. Have you had suceess with this way to play? Which wich list/versus which list? 

On 9/8/2020 at 5:04 AM, Trample said:

One of the really good ways for Neverborn to take out Seamus is to put him in a position where it is difficult for him to use Secret Passage. Although it's not a cakewalk by any stretch, they do have several ways to accomplish this. The Nephilims' Shove Aside trigger, Teddy's Bowled Over, and Titania's Into Thorns are good examples.

I've thought of this, but I'm not sure how consistently I'd be able to pull off these. Titania and Nekima are the 2 ones I could think with the mobility, resilience and SS usage to pull that off consistently... Titania loses H2W, but She has extra wounds, good min damage in the right set up and at least she can't take 8 damage, but Nekima vs Seamus seems a very tricky match, specially as Res has Ashigaru and Nekima isn't that good versus H2W... Have you seen that one? Who do you think that has the upper hand?

The Grootslang could had potential (8SS, but not one shoteable) played with Marcus or Zoraida, but it's also a risky pick... he won't go down in 1 shot, but can with 2 (or shot+charge), his displacement is unreliable and as the lair markers can only be in my table half during deployment, I don't think reaching Seamus would be that easy. I have the same feelings about the Rider, premium food for him.

Anyway, ty for the thoughts.

[Trample]

I think you're looking at it the right way @Ogid. Driving into his table half certainly limits what he can do with his 4th AP. I do believe that you should, in most games, go after Seamus to take him off the board. You absolutely right that a good player can position Seamus to keep him pretty safe, but for him to do what he wants to do you should be able to reach him with Neverborn just has so many fast models and can win initiative when they need to. 

I have not seen a Seamus vs. Nekima matchup. It would be really interesting. Fly with me + move 6 with the mature means you should be able to get to him if he hasn't already killed the mature! Nekima can certainly get there. If Neverborn can get a pair of models into Seamus at the end of the turn and go first they should be in great shape, but it would be a really interesting matchup. If I knew I were facing Seamus I would probably pick Pandora (stunned is not good for him) or Titania. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Stunned + Slow halves Seamus' actions, so that should lock him down pretty well (although he'll still be able to walk and take one shot, if he can't focus he will likely hit for four damage).

That's another thing to note - make sure you're stripping his focus stacks if the opponent is the sort to stack a bunch of focus on Seamus. His cannon is not that scary when it is hitting for 4.

[Ogid]

Ty for the answer guys. Still an scary match up but It's good to see I'm in the good track. I'll report back when I play this one (with luck in a few months XD)

Pandora was on my radar but I wasn't 100% sure about her for Seamus' Wp of 7 and the posibility to face Schtook that also has hefty Wp values; but even with that it's true she has potential. She may borrow his gun (once per turn tho), with a Changeling and a low crow she might get a crow to control him and other models; and she herself isn't the best target. A stoned mask in defense (or one set up before with the Changeling) will stun him and could even displace him if he is near of a model with Misery; also targeting her means his entire Focused stack will be gone after he uses one of the charges (in ofense, before in defense). Wp 7 means Seamus has a good chance to cheat and win, but removing good cards from his hand is also kind of a win; I'll have to be careful to not overdo my own cheating tho, Seamus will probably have the wisper on him so I'll need to save at least 1 high card to have a good chance to defend.

Also there are a few models I like for the match up in her keyword: Delivering Candy near of him would be the more consistent way to stun him (and she can also borrow his gun); The Carver is another one able to control his Focused. All that is not easy to do considering his mobility, but they can punish him and limit his options if an opening is found. And She also has Lyssas on Keyword...

I think I'll wait until I have more experience versus RES before including the glassy and hitty options like Nekima; there are some good counters in the faction and those kind of models require flawless play or may die pointlessly achieving nothing... I'm not that confident versus that faction to play her yet.

[Kiryn]

Went up against kirai in corner symbols last night. Took Titania. 

Had a really tough time as kirai hugely out activated and had combo of incorporeal and vengeance was rough. Didn't help that a summoned shikome got to rogourou 3 inches out deployment and killed it top of turn 2. 

First time playing Titania, usually play tt, but really struggled. Felt like I would need to be absolutely on top of my game and get a bit of luck to stand up to the kirai crew. Will have to give it another try though! 

[Ogid]

On 10/2/2020 at 6:19 PM, Kiryn said:

Went up against kirai in corner symbols last night. Took Titania. 

Had a really tough time as kirai hugely out activated and had combo of incorporeal and vengeance was rough. Didn't help that a summoned shikome got to rogourou 3 inches out deployment and killed it top of turn 2. 

First time playing Titania, usually play tt, but really struggled. Felt like I would need to be absolutely on top of my game and get a bit of luck to stand up to the kirai crew. Will have to give it another try though! 

Titania is not well suited to handle Incorporeal/Flying models ignoring all her terrain (which also deny her the extra ping damage with Emissary/Killjoy in the incorporeal model's case and the AP the other player loses when a model is moved into a Severe marker); plus Kirai's heal deny is one of the few things that can get Killjoy killed and counters Serena quite well (and even Titania's life leech). Maybe try another master versus her, that looks as a tough match up for her tbh (and res have also the option to get Molly as second master...)

You may benefice from Focused and heavy hitters in this game (so BBS into Mature is seems a very solid option; and Black blood goes through incorporeal, but mind Vengeance won't trigger it). Vengeance is after resolving, so it won't trigger if the model is dead (or is this just for triggers?... Not 100% sure now); anyway just kill them in a few heavy hits, the longer you take, the more damage you'll get. Zoraida could also be fun because Vengeance works versus friendly attacks (and that Flay trigger in Goryo and onslaught on Ikiryo may backfire hard if they relent the defense). Euripides as second Master could be an option, with Intuition+Focused could be feasible getting high damage and he has a damaging tactical action (which goes through incorporeal and SC); it won't kill a model by itself alone (maybe you may snipe a few sheishins); but it might help to finish a few models or punish them if they hug each other.

Just a few ideas from the top of my head, good luck!

[Maniacal_cackle]

My first few games against Kirai were brutal (playing Molly at the time). But after 2-3 games I was beating her consistently.

One thing to be aware of is she is slow to develop her scoring potential/can be a bit inefficient. I try to snag the prerequisites for points fast and early against her, and then use my crew to keep pressure on her so she is too busy to score.

And don't let Goryo burst too many of your models at once... Absolutely brutal that ability xD

Also minimise damage you take via Vengeance as Ogid says, but also consider abilities that don't damage. Intimidating Roar is probably very good here.

[Ogid]

21 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

One thing to be aware of is she is slow to develop her scoring potential/can be a bit inefficient. I try to snag the prerequisites for points fast and early against her, and then use my crew to keep pressure on her so she is too busy to score.

Interesting. I'm guessing killing the sheishins is high priority for this as these may get models able to interact easily into position? Does she go OOK for better schemers like Necropunks or Manos or does she needs to play in keyword?

12 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also minimise damage you take via Vengeance as Ogid says, but also consider abilities that don't damage. Intimidating Roar is probably very good here.

Another option is damaging actions that doesn't target or damage from abilities: Shockwaves (like Euripides/Pandora ones), BBP from Hayreddin/BBS, blade rush, Misery... however that may help but it's probably not a good main source of damage; Kirai (and RES in general) has access to very good healing; tickling them to death doesn't look like a good idea, but still worth including as it might get some model low enough to get blown up in one or 2 hits or finish some low Wd model without taking more Vengeance damage.

Not sure about Roaring here tho... she has condition removal on her keyword for the slow (if a minion is the target) and also extra walk actions for her models (and even both in the same ability lol) so she might undo the effects of that roar; and that's a 8SS model using an stat 5 action to do that (and the best target, a Goryo, has Wp6).

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 hours ago, Ogid said:

Interesting. I'm guessing killing the sheishins is high priority for this as these may get models able to interact easily into position? Does she go OOK for better schemers like Necropunks or Manos or does she needs to play in keyword?

Personally I don't go after backline support pieces immediately. Say you send in a nephilim to kill a Seishin. Now Kirai summons a Goryo or drowned on top of you and you lose a piece.

Seishin produce most of their value turn one (since you can't walk out of engagement), and they require a 7 to do it! I just let them contribute to hand drain.

Generally against Kirai, she is using her cards to summon and hit target numbers, so I try to use my cards to kill stuff.

So I go after the schemers. Shikome, OOK necropunks, etc. Anything that ventures out on its own to score either dies or gets tied up.

8 hours ago, Ogid said:

 

Another option is damaging actions that doesn't target or damage from abilities: Shockwaves (like Euripides/Pandora ones), BBP from Hayreddin/BBS, blade rush, Misery... however that may help but it's probably not a good main source of damage; Kirai (and RES in general) has access to very good healing; tickling them to death doesn't look like a good idea, but still worth including as it might get some model low enough to get blown up in one or 2 hits or finish some low Wd model without taking more Vengeance damage.

Not sure about Roaring here tho... she has condition removal on her keyword for the slow (if a minion is the target) and also extra walk actions for her models (and even both in the same ability lol) so she might undo the effects of that roar; and that's a 8SS model using an stat 5 action to do that (and the best target, a Goryo, has Wp6).

Good points about damage and roar.

I know Dreamer's Terrorize is devastating against her, but I guess Roar isn't as good (Terrorize also engages the model with an expendable summon).

In general I try to gunk up important models and make them spend time doing none scoring things. Poking Kirai can be a good way to do this. It takes too many resources to kill a defended Kirai, but poking her makes them spend resources defending her.

If they don't defend her it is a free kill, but I find often they do. I think it is a psychological thing - most people aren't willing to lose their summoning master. So if you threaten the kill without spending too many resources actually going for the kill, it can drain them.

If assassinate is in the pool, keep asking how much health she has left. They'll assume you're out to kill her and waste models defending her.

😜

Note Ive only played about a dozen games against her.

EDIT: oh of course Datsue Ba and Jaakuna are high priority to kill if you can get away with it (Datsue is usually too safe but Jaakuna is almost always killabale). They can't be summoned back. Careful though - a Kirai player takes Jaakuna to gunk you up and slow you down. Don't waste too many resources taking her down. Figure out an efficient way to do it (two focused attacks and a ping like blade rush could do it).

EDIT2: also Goryo are somewhat squishy. Don't be afraid to kill a Goryo way out of position. A resummon still means she has been set back.

[Kiryn]

All good points. 

I did go after big hits where possible but got punished with some rough flips. 

I wouldn't choose to go in to kirai again with Titania but sometimes that's the way it goes. Think I'd have a better time of it second time round though. 

[Ogid]

45 minutes ago, Kiryn said:

I wouldn't choose to go in to kirai again with Titania but sometimes that's the way it goes. Think I'd have a better time of it second time round though. 

That happens, but in those cases don't be afraid to go versatile/OOK heavy.

In the best case you'll catch them off guard and that might win the game; you may also end with a subpar crew and lose the game tho... but that's something likely anyway into a bad match up and that kind of experiments will make you a stronger player. Win-win.

[Ceodoc]

I see mentioned here a few times the 'Vasi & BBS trick'

What is the gings on here please?

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 minutes ago, Ceodoc said:

I see mentioned here a few times the 'Vasi & BBS trick'

What is the gings on here please?

Vasilisa uses their ability to make a minion (the BBS) take an action (so it uses its ability to eat a corpse marker a second time, giving it two tokens in one turn so it grows into a mature turn 1, and you double blast focus).

[Ceodoc]

Ty MC.

Is it the Blasphemous Ritual ability?

I did not know you could use bonus actions twice.

Handing out focus +2 and growing into a Mature early game is a lot of value if you are a Vasilisa fan!

[Adran]

52 minutes ago, Ceodoc said:

Ty MC.

Is it the Blasphemous Ritual ability?

I did not know you could use bonus actions twice.

 

I think this is one of the few ways to get a model to take a bonus action outside their own activation. 

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Ceodoc said:

I did not know you could use bonus actions twice.

Handing out focus +2 and growing into a Mature early game is a lot of value if you are a Vasilisa fan!

It's good to see more Vasilisa lovers fans out of there

Try a wicked doll with that combo; it increases the support cost to 11, but it gives you a few solid things: A cheap model to drop the scheme required, a model also able to put adversary (Nephillim) on the model about to get knifed (which I've found important to get it consistently enough; only very bad luck or a BJ will make it fail). And it also gives Vasilisa something to do after turn 2 if you are playing a crew without other constructs, carting that doll around to drop schemes.

Another useful thing I've found with that opening is setting up a second Vasilisa obey to reposition the Mature in turn 2 before activating him (just set up another scheme near of it and don't move Vasilisa too far away so she is still in range in turn 2); that second obey kind of make up for the first turn where the BBS barely moves (but only if you can afford to cheat an 8 the second turn and be also careful not to put him into harm's way if he is still with 6 Wds or you could lose him before even getting the chance to use it!)

[Ceodoc]

22 minutes ago, Ogid said:

It's good to see more Vasilisa lovers fans out of there

Try a wicked doll with that combo; it increases the support cost to 11, but it gives you a few solid things: A cheap model to drop the scheme required, a model also able to put adversary (Nephillim) on the model about to get knifed (which I've found important to get it consistently enough; only very bad luck or a BJ will make it fail). And it also gives Vasilisa something to do after turn 2 if you are playing a crew without other constructs, carting that doll around to drop schemes.

Another useful thing I've found with that opening is setting up a second Vasilisa obey to reposition the Mature in turn 2 before activating him (just set up another scheme near of it and don't move Vasilisa too far away so she is still in range in turn 2); that second obey kind of make up for the first turn where the BBS barely moves (but only if you can afford to cheat an 8 the second turn and be also careful not to put him into harm's way if he is still with 6 Wds or you could lose him before even getting the chance to use it!)

Would never take Vas without a wicked doll, that's a stitched later, great chaff, scheme runner if needs be.

However I am a Dreamer player so have WW to summon my Stitched.

I am delving into Titania and have Vas in my list so was interested to know what the combo was.  As I want to play the Queen aggressively, I won't have time to wait for the focus bomb/Mature to happen. And Vas Pull The Strings is reserved for the Rougarou to Roar for 3rd time.