belorey Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 So this week wyrd show a new Minion with two keyword Seeker and Syndicate (they share It with the bew henchman). What do you think? The chronicle (geomancy) makes me think this crew are going to get enought healing yo create at least 2/3 each turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Vening Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Not sure I like Price of Progress being what appears to be a Keyword ability. That easy access to triggers doesn't sit right with me, for the moment. Pythagoras Quake is funny, but require a lot of things to go right. I'm assuming that you use the outer bounds of the sightlines, and therefore the target is also always "within"? 6 wounds, Armor and all-but-auto Hazardous aura does seem a bit much, given he's no slouch offensively. At least he's kinda slow independently (Chain Gang is fine until you don't have a partner available and willing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 Agree on price of progress, makes triggers a bit too trivial/require so little planning (although I guess especially with this guy, paying one life is not trivial at all). For the model itself, 6-cost armor one is always worth a look. I assume price of progress means the crew will be trying to self-heal quite a bit, which means this guy is just spitting out markers (although I assume markers are for one crew, price of progress for the other). Some nice damage, coupled with hazardous terrain and being annoying to kill off (and if you do, it is only a 6 stone model)... I can see these fellas causing quite a bit of annoyance/bogging enemies down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostHunter Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 Everything depends how easy to access for Syndicate will be card draw, healing and movement boost, if the healing in keyword/ook will be scarce then price of progress will be tuned down and can't be spammed at will. Same things if card drawing will be also scarce then there will be no spamming with Geode Markers. Their 4" movement may be pain in the ass without speed boosters (okey they have Chain gang, but then they will not be able to use field of steel) as they are short range models. Two things (movement boost and trigger with healing) from three grants Finnigan, but we don't know the whole keyword so it's hard to judge. Also they gonna suffer from cover and concealment so efficiency of Hooked chain depends on how many things we have on table and how many long, empty streets you have. But they offer crazy amount of ping damage. TT McCabe with Wanyudo will be true nightmare for them hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 Seems like Chronicle (X) will be a versatile Seeker keyword ability. Maybe one for every element. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinChan Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 15 hours ago, FrostHunter said: Everything depends how easy to access for Syndicate will be card draw, healing and movement boost, if the healing in keyword/ook will be scarce then price of progress will be tuned down and can't be spammed at will. Same things if card drawing will be also scarce then there will be no spamming with Geode Markers. Their 4" movement may be pain in the ass without speed boosters (okey they have Chain gang, but then they will not be able to use field of steel) as they are short range models. Two things (movement boost and trigger with healing) from three grants Finnigan, but we don't know the whole keyword so it's hard to judge. Also they gonna suffer from cover and concealment so efficiency of Hooked chain depends on how many things we have on table and how many long, empty streets you have. But they offer crazy amount of ping damage. TT McCabe with Wanyudo will be true nightmare for them hahaha. They will be using Chain Gang in turns 1-2 to get to places, when Field of Steel would be less necessary. So they're mobility isn't bad. The healing part, we will just have to wait to see more, but if it's there, I assume there is going to be some sort of healing, probably to compensate all of those Price of Progress. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire5tone Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 price of progress on him is free, hes armor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinChan Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, fire5tone said: price of progress on him is free, hes armor 1 Armor does not reduce damage to 0. Only apecific abilities and effects that say so can reduce damage to 0, being shielded and using soulstones to prevent damage the most common ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Due to that lack of reduction on ping (1) damage, ping damage is one of the best ways to take down armor models. Which makes price of progress extra tricky here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingPhoenix Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 12:02 PM, Morgan Vening said: 6 wounds, Armor and all-but-auto Hazardous aura does seem a bit much, given he's no slouch offensively. At least he's kinda slow independently (Chain Gang is fine until you don't have a partner available and willing). A flip that requires a five will fail 31.5% of the time. You can generalize that to 1-in-3 times. It's not that hard, but not automatic. I think he's fine. He's pushed harder than a lot of minions, but a lot of minions are junk. Like, a LOT of minions are junk this edition. This is more where I think a model needs to be. Well designed minion. As an aside though, I'm really starting to see the arguments for shorter games (either 3 or 4 rounds). This is a marker creation, 4" aura, and three different ways to move other models on a 6 stone model. That's a lot of measuring and moving for one activation, and he's not exactly going to go down easy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peturd Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 This is a very interesting cool minion. Needs others from keyword to see where it lands. Winston feels a bit under costed, this feels good. The triggers aren’t that strong so getting them easily isn’t op. Especially at the cost of health. No one thinks December Acolytes are OP and without context they should be able to take one of these guys 1 vs. 1. It’s going to be the synergy that makes this a strong minion I think!! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Vening Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 14 hours ago, RisingPhoenix said: A flip that requires a five will fail 31.5% of the time. You can generalize that to 1-in-3 times. It's not that hard, but not automatic. I think he's fine. He's pushed harder than a lot of minions, but a lot of minions are junk. Like, a LOT of minions are junk this edition. This is more where I think a model needs to be. Well designed minion. As an aside though, I'm really starting to see the arguments for shorter games (either 3 or 4 rounds). This is a marker creation, 4" aura, and three different ways to move other models on a 6 stone model. That's a lot of measuring and moving for one activation, and he's not exactly going to go down easy. When I said automatic, I was including the option to use of a 5-7 from hand, if putting up the aura is considered important. Obviously, that's going to depend on a lot of factors, including availability, card draw, card cycle, and need for discards within the crew (Finnegan doesn't have one, this guy has Geomancy, no clear "lots of Flurry/RapidFire/etc" yet). And while I agree that the number of junk minions is significant (especially given that pass tokens take away one of the more important reason to take them), I'm leery of the new Faction leading the way on that front, rather than those others getting worked on first. Because even the appearance of codex creep is likely to annoy people. I mean, we'll see where that ends up (I have faith in Wyrd), but it is something to be mindful of. People feeling they need to buy into ExSo Squad, rather than because it looks awesome/interesting/quirky, has a way of backfiring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 I totally agree it would be very frustrating if ES is above the curve, but this model in particular feels okay. That other one feels like it needs some tuning. Will have to see them on the table of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingPhoenix Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 I think if the faction doesn't have anything like Dreamer in it, people will understand if it's all good, especially if they build up some goodwill by buffing stuff in the future. There's no reason to design things in a way you know doesn't work just because it was done that way in the past. And for reference, these will be far from the best 6 soulstone minion, that's still probably Hucksters or Undergraduates. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 When we see the whole keyword we'll know if is a good option or not. But from now seems a nice combo woth Winston Finnigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostHunter Posted May 26, 2020 Report Share Posted May 26, 2020 Well i thought about them outside their keywords and i'm starting to think that i would hire one of them into McCabe. Give them Phantasmal Mask, even if Protective spirits from Artifact are little wasted on them, they will gain fast for one turn and they are getting another source of ping damage and heal from life leech - they might be very irritating in choke points when some big monster want to smash you, but is in 4 " from Surveyor with Phantasmal Mask. They suffer 1damage, Surveyor heals 1 and discards card to create Geode marker between them and monster so rather than charge and murder opponent have to walk and interact to remove geode marker and suffer another point of damage wasting their activation. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackcladElf Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 I think abilities like Price of Progress are a really neat concept, you just have to be careful how you manage them- if the models that end up having it have a lot of NEAT triggers but not necessarily devastatingly POWERFUL ones, it becomes a cool "toolbox you can access at a cost when you need it, but won't always use," which encourages player choice. The DANGER with an ability like that is either making the triggers necessary for the model to be worthwhile (in which case unless they're really powerful, it'll just end up killing itself trying to be useful) or making them so powerful that the 1 damage is trivial. Done properly, though, it turns health into a resource- more resources for players to manipulate is always a good thing from a design perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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