Let's Talk Daw

[Zebo]

Well, the fact is that is really hard to take advantage of our crappy upgrades, with the exception of Servant of Dark Powers, and I'm always thinking about a way to exploit the Wanted Criminal Upgrade (I thought I had a good way, but then realized that the upgrade specifies "drop", and every effect that I have seen that changes their location, is a place, so no wokou, no smugglers, etc... 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, LeperColony said:

I'd worry about activation control with seven models.  If my opponent wins initiative and forces me to go first, or the turn has a critical action when I win initiative, so I go first, I think it's entirely possible that my opponent may get two or even three uncontested activations at the end of the turn.

That's what pass tokens are for! Another model is no better than a pass token from an activation control perspective.

For the main post, I've only played Jack Daw a tiny bit in Ressers, but some thoughts:

• You have good tar pit models, but you want to avoid free hits on your model. The incorporeal can help hide behind terrain, but be careful - with only 4 inches, you can also get stuck behind big impassable terrain.
• If you can get into melee before they've done much damage (and you being the first into melee), that makes a big difference. On your heels is great here.
• Stack your upgrades well - you want to ensure you are getting all your bonuses for hitting enemies with upgrades.
• It is fine to use Jack Daw for his ranged ability and keep him out of trouble.
• It is also fine to send Jack Daw in and let him die (if that is part of your wider plan).
• The crew is NOT good at running down enemy scheme runners. Make sure you have a plan for every 'zone' the enemy can score points. Don't wait to discover he has a lone scheme runner running around the board you can't catch. You need to be where the scheme runner is headed, not where it is.

[LeperColony]

22 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

That's what pass tokens are for! Another model is no better than a pass token from an activation control perspective.

I don't think I agree.  Pass tokens allow you to shift when the uncontested activations occur, but they don't reduce the number of uncontested activations.  Another model does.

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

Well, the fact is that is really hard to take advantage of our crappy upgrades, with the exception of Servant of Dark Powers, and I'm always thinking about a way to exploit the Wanted Criminal Upgrade (I thought I had a good way, but then realized that the upgrade specifies "drop", and every effect that I have seen that changes their location, is a place, so no wokou, no smugglers, etc... 

Yeah, I think Outcast upgrades are the worst in the game by a noticeable margin.  I know some guild players think their faction has a fair claim to the title, but I don't think it's even close.

That being said, I think Wanted Criminal could be useful for Parker.

[unti]

Have you played daw against ten thunders?

To me it seems like TT have too many good options for ruthless and in general their versatile models with armor and good shoot-actions seem like an uphill battle for daw from the beginning... 

Btw I only played daw as a resser but since his crew is very synergistic I don't think there is much difference in his declared faction...

What are your thoughts on that matter?

[RisingPhoenix]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:16 PM, LeperColony said:

Yeah, I think Outcast upgrades are the worst in the game by a noticeable margin.  I know some guild players think their faction has a fair claim to the title, but I don't think it's even close.

That being said, I think Wanted Criminal could be useful for Parker.

Wanted criminal is a joke in Parker, a bad stupid joke.  

First there's the range.  6 inches.  Well golly gee, my gun has a 12" range!  So I better walk pretty close to get my money.  Unfortunately this is often "close enough to get charged".  

Second there's this misperception that Parker's crew drops enemy scheme markers like mad.  It happens on a Tome, so 1 in 4 times.  Only Parker himself makes them drop one if the shot misses.  You can make it happen, but not only do you need to make it happen, you need to make it happen in the Wanted Criminal bubble.  

Then you have to actually get 2 stones of value out of this somehow.  Maybe stick it on a Wokou raider so you can use Swagger?  Oh boy.  

 

I've really only seen it as useful on Benny, because Benny and Wanted Criminal are now partners in some very silly rat engine shenanigans.  

[kross1]

I've been mainlining the Viks and Parker and find all 3 of our upgrade not worth the tax anymore. I would rather have the stones...

[Favilludo]

I have quite a bit of experience on jack and find it quite interesting to play with outcasts, mainly for the prospectors. The only upgrades i usually run are two hanged with servant of dark powers on them since terrifying 13 with jacks -1 wp is insane as long as u focus down ruthless models. The best thing about the prospectors i find is, that the soulstones are very flexibly usable. I have stopped taking 9ss caches with me because i find the opponent playing around the executes too much. I tend to save up any high crows that i draw early on(and you will usually draw one or two of them because of how many cards you draw) and use my ss to keep jack and the hanged alive. It is notable that the hanged are nearly unkillable if ss are used and they are near jack and even if they go down, the opponent has usually used his hand for it at which point the executes come in. They are good, but i find playing only for the executes not the best thing to do.

[Favilludo]

On 5/15/2020 at 10:09 PM, Zebo said:

Well, the fact is that is really hard to take advantage of our crappy upgrades, with the exception of Servant of Dark Powers, and I'm always thinking about a way to exploit the Wanted Criminal Upgrade (I thought I had a good way, but then realized that the upgrade specifies "drop", and every effect that I have seen that changes their location, is a place, so no wokou, no smugglers, etc... 

wanted criminal is quite funny with a dead outlaw that shoots a guilty turn one (abusing that sweet guilty as charged) with a run n gun, drops an enemy sceme marker, which is then pushed towards by your prospector, the upgrades draw you 2 cards, if u previously used the guilty for hanged shenanigans, u draw for the torment trigger plus the prospector can interact with the enemy marker to get a soulstone...

that is the best way i have fould to abuse that fun little upgrade, wins u some early card advantage which can be crucial against those alpha strike crews and gives you a few soulstones. Plus you have set up a flank set which can both merge with the main bubble or run around the opponent and either try to get into a better position to hit them or just score...

[Nagi21]

I've found Rezzer Daw is better if for no other reason than he gets access to the Grave Spirit upgrade.  -1 wp aura with terrifying 13 Students of Vicscera?  Insanely borked.

[Zebo]

In Fact, Outcast have an Upgrade with the same ability, so it's perfectly possible to play -1 wp aura with Terrifying 13 Hangeds. 

[Fingalen]

On 10/3/2020 at 9:41 AM, Zebo said:

In Fact, Outcast have an Upgrade with the same ability, so it's perfectly possible to play -1 wp aura with Terrifying 13 Hangeds. 

Exactly. I can't really understand, why so many people say resser Daw is better. GST and SoDP are definitely comparable. Ressers might have better ways to deal with conditions (Bone pile) and apart from it, I really cannot see much reasons why the ressers should be better for Daw.

[dannydb]

Ressers don't have marlina who is great in outcast Jack 

[Plaag]

On 10/5/2020 at 3:55 PM, malyzubor said:

Exactly. I can't really understand, why so many people say resser Daw is better. GST and SoDP are definitely comparable. Ressers might have better ways to deal with conditions (Bone pile) and apart from it, I really cannot see much reasons why the ressers should be better for Daw.

bone pile is useless, but ressers have ignore demise and in outcasts u can take stalker, not marlena - she is not a good model in jacks crew

and i think that giving terrifying ability to minion who dont have it is better than +1 to it

and here is my vision of one of outcasts jacks crew; i played with daw few games and this game was not so good as it is possible from my side, but jack playstyle is very comfortable

 

[Fingalen]

12 hours ago, Plaag said:

bone pile is useless, but ressers have ignore demise and in outcasts u can take stalker, not marlena - she is not a good model in jacks crew

I'd say, conditions like stunned or burning could be quite painfull for Daw, don't you think so? And outcasts have no real way to deal with them.

Regarding the demises I think the biggest threats might be eternals and those of amalgam keyword and marlena's anti-heal could handle them in some way (but I have tried it only once and not even with Daw).

[Maniacal_cackle]

I find Bone Piles to be very good, but you really need to pair them with corpse markers.

So they seem off in a Jack Daw crew. Nurses seem like the Resser default answer to conditions.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, malyzubor said:

I'd say, conditions like stunned or burning could be quite painfull for Daw, don't you think so? And outcasts have no real way to deal with them.

Regarding the demises I think the biggest threats might be eternals and those of amalgam keyword and marlena's anti-heal could handle them in some way (but I have tried it only once and not even with Daw).

they have johan; and player with jack need to play carefuly and strike only when all preparations done

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I find Bone Piles to be very good, but you really need to pair them with corpse markers.

So they seem off in a Jack Daw crew. Nurses seem like the Resser default answer to conditions.

will check it this sunday, i hope)

[Favilludo]

The experience I have had with Ressers versus Outcasts is the following:

In terms of upgrades, Ressers win by far:

• Wanted Criminal is fun for shenanigans, but not really that good...
• Soldier for hire is pretty much useless because it just gets overshadowed by Prospectors, none of the Tormented are living
• Servant is good on Daw but he can heal from card draws and that makes The Whisper objectively better because there it is either draw or heal plus the benefit of Intuition, one of the stronger abilities on an upgrade in general.

In terms of versatile, the main models I like in Outcasts are

• Hans for condition removal (i dont own many ook models so this is my best option)
• Prospector to get some soulstones
• Emissary, because it makes my bubble much faster turn 1. Mainly important in Corner deployment

In Ressers, I like the following:

• Rider for sceme running and turn 1 Positioning
• Bonepile against burn heavy crews or stuns and such
• Sloth is really good to give Montressor Fast and with some condition removal, his heal is quite insane as well

I dont own too many OOK Models and therefore haven't really looked into them...

[Cranky Old Man]

You mean Johan for condition removal? Hans is the sniper