GremlinDaycare Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 Long time lurker, recent account holder, Daw seems pointed 3e toward a play style but because of quarantine I haven't had a chance to play it out. WHAT is your thoughts and experience with 3e Daw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 Only played once with him. It felt like dancing on the razor's edge. He's quite oppresive, with his -1 Wp aura, Terrifying and undying, but he's also a 6 Wd Master, so you need to have your hand as full as possible before sending him to face the danger. And be sure your opponent has no way to do multiple ping damage. The crew has many disrupting auras, and plays a lot messing with your opponent's hand and staggering its models to disrupt movement shenanigans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlos896 Posted May 5, 2020 Report Share Posted May 5, 2020 I have a few games experience with Daw on the resser side of things but the playstyle is fairly similar. Your turn one with daw should be using guity to get your hanged and daw into position for turn two with the toss the noose on your heels trigger. Then hanged and daw should also try to get ugrades out turn one in an ideal world. Once that happens you sick daw on anyone who isn't ruthless that you stuck stagger upgrade on. You at minimum force three discards not mentioning the possible execute triggers along the way. If things go badly you can use the bonus and on your heels trigger to get Jack out of the fray, but this only works if you spend 2 ap on jack to attack something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 I have significant experience against Daw. He's definitely oppressive. My opponent generally throws 1-2 Hanged in my face and they are so naturally tanky that they survive the whole game. Hand management is super crucial with him, and for that my opponent generally plays him Resser for their upgrades. In my experience, the worst game's I've had against Jack were when my opponent made me discard my whole hand. The primary way this happens is from the Hanged's upgrades and Lady Ligea. The totem is sooo important for this crew, specifically the Betrayal aura. The games I've won I managed to snipe her out early. The games I've lost shes managed to survive and just exist so I cant do anything. Proper positioning with her is suuuper important. At its worst, my opponent Executed a full health Cojo, Jackalope, and Marcus in a single game 😕 I feel like Jack's upgrade is a bit weak, it just changes my activation order to get staggered off the model early Tormented is thought of as a slow crew, but they have significant movement schenanigans between their On Your Heels triggers, Drawn to Betryal, and Cursed to Watch that my opponent hasnt had trouble getting to places on the board and routinely scores Breakthrough. Monty is a beast from his ping damage but he has trouble getting to relevant places. He's great to hold the center or defend and objective, and an enemy is engaged with him with staggered it is VERY tough to get away, but creating that scenario can be a bit tricky. My opponent likes taking the upgrade that gives Herald in Outcast for that reason. He doesnt like Jakuuna, but I think she's insane. A stat 7 Lure that pulls you into Hazardous Terrain? Plus Jack's crew has ways of stacking hazardous and forcing you to move inside of it? It seems brutal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Mycellanious said: 😕I feel like Jack's upgrade is a bit weak, it just changes my activation order to get staggered off the model early Activation control is already good on its own. Plus you get the condition at the start phase, so Tormented can hit you before your activation(s). Additionaly Monty has extra tricks that prevent you from ending Staggered and damage you for activating with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Mycellanious said: 😕 I feel like Jack's upgrade is a bit weak, it just changes my activation order to get staggered off the model early I don't have a lot of Jack experience, but I thought the best bit about the upgrade was it was an upgrade, so allows all your card draw, bonus damage etc. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Adran said: I don't have a lot of Jack experience, but I thought the best bit about the upgrade was it was an upgrade, so allows all your card draw, bonus damage etc. Oh yea thats all great, but I thought it was weird that the Master's Action Upgrade wasnt as good (or bad?) an upgrade as the Hangeds or the Guilty's. Like I actively try to avoid killing the Guilty or cheat to avoid the Hanged's upgrade, but I dont really care about Jack's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Ming said: Activation control is already good on its own. Plus you get the condition at the start phase, so Tormented can hit you before your activation(s). Additionaly Monty has extra tricks that prevent you from ending Staggered and damage you for activating with it. For sure, but that requires Monty being nearby, which can be tough, and having initiative. Like if he puts the upgrade on my Master and I get initiative the staggered doesnt particularly matter. And even if he gets initiative, he has 1 activation to make use of it before I activate the model (which can certainly be all he needs considering he likely On Your Heel's to that model at the end of the last turn) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Mycellanious said: Oh yea thats all great, but I thought it was weird that the Master's Action Upgrade wasnt as good (or bad?) an upgrade as the Hangeds or the Guilty's. Like I actively try to avoid killing the Guilty or cheat to avoid the Hanged's upgrade, but I dont really care about Jack's. I think it is for balance reasons. Jack has the upgrade where... It does damage when it is applied. It can't be removed (short of special tech). Can be applied up to three times a turn. Guilty have to be killed, and Hanged can only do it once a turn (as a bonus). Hanged's upgrade can also be removed. So while it is a less powerful effect, it comes in a much more powerful context. Although it is still super powerful. Giving staggered every turn for the rest of the game basically means movement is no longer really an option for that model. And movement is the most powerful thing in the game IMO (although this upgrade doesn't stop non-move based movement). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 I think the weirdest thing about the upgrade is to not out staggered when attaching. Jack Daw has no way of causing Staggered during his turn. EDIT: in fact, I miss the variety of curses Daw had in M2E. It's weird that Daw has lost upgrades and VS has win so many. It could be added some extra effects to the curse (I mean all curses put staggered, but each one has another different effect) like: - This model must discard a card to declare triggers against tormented models. - Enemy Tormented models may add a to all their duels against this models (all triggers in tormented are to put Staggered or to move someway). - This model cannot heal. That kind of effects. Not specially powerful, but annoying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexLock Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinDaycare Posted May 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Throwing Spaghetti at the wall here then, let me know your thoughts: Going outcast Jacky for some possible OOK fun. Jack-- Servant Lady Monty Marlena Guilty Hanged-- Servant (For that delicious Terrifying 13) Prospector 9 Cache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 55 minutes ago, GremlinDaycare said: Throwing Spaghetti at the wall here then, let me know your thoughts: Going outcast Jacky for some possible OOK fun. Jack-- Servant Lady Monty Marlena Guilty Hanged-- Servant (For that delicious Terrifying 13) Prospector 9 Cache Is this an execute list? Because if not, I wonder if you couldn't go down a bit in cache and add an eighth model. Another Guilty would be another potential upgrade source. Or a Dead Outlaw possibly. I'd worry about activation control with seven models. If my opponent wins initiative and forces me to go first, or the turn has a critical action when I win initiative, so I go first, I think it's entirely possible that my opponent may get two or even three uncontested activations at the end of the turn. I think I'd also like another Tormented. But I've never played him Outcast, so I could just be wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 1 hour ago, GremlinDaycare said: Throwing Spaghetti at the wall here then, let me know your thoughts: Going outcast Jacky for some possible OOK fun. Jack-- Servant Lady Monty Marlena Guilty Hanged-- Servant (For that delicious Terrifying 13) Prospector 9 Cache Do you really need a prospector and 9 cache? Substitute the prospector with something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinDaycare Posted May 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Continuing the convo with a list edit: Jacky- Servant Ligeia Marlena 9 Guilty 5 Guilty 5 Monty 9 Thats at 28 ss For the rest I am thinking either list A Drowned Drowned Drowned 6ss Cache Or list B Drowned Hanged- Servant Marlena gets the Criminal upgrade 6 ss Cache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 1 hour ago, GremlinDaycare said: For the rest I am thinking either list A Drowned Drowned Drowned 6ss Cache What is your plan for so many Drowned? I'm not sure what bringing three is going to give you, capability-wise. Just my opinion, but if you did want to do something like this, I might suggest Jaakuna instead of one of the Drowned and just going down to 4 stones. Or else get rid of two Drowned, get Jaakuna and maybe an upgrade somewhere. I'd be worried that without any Hanged you may find it a little difficult to get the upgrades out. Also, since Drowned only on moderate or severe, you may struggle a little to get out as many Riptide markers as you may think. But then again, I've never tried to go this heavy into area denial with Daw, so there's little reason to listen to me! 1 hour ago, GremlinDaycare said: Or list B Drowned Hanged- Servant Marlena gets the Criminal upgrade 6 ss Cache Personally, I'd prefer this to A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 What is the sense oficial wanted criminal onda Marlena? She's only gonna benefit from Swagger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Zebo said: She's only gonna benefit from Swagger. She's not a minion, so she won't get Swagger. I agree though that it seems like a curious choice. Especially with no Dead Outlaws to force scheme markers to drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinDaycare Posted May 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Marlena is not a minion. She'll get the other two abilities though. With the tar pit I am trying to get being in the dead center, she could bubble pretty far for making opponents debate scheme markers. Plus if need be and she converges on a soulstone user she can relatively easily steal those away. This is awesome guys! I LOVE LIST BRAINSTORMING These responses have been great and it helps keep my mind busy waiting for emails with work: NEW EDIT Jacky- Servant Ligeia Monty Servant 11 Marlena Wanted Criminal 11 2 Dead outlaw 12 Hanged 8 Guilty 5 3 Cache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 37 minutes ago, GremlinDaycare said: Marlena Wanted Criminal 11 2 Dead outlaw 12 If you're playing so heavily into the card draw on Criminal, I think maybe you should find a way to give it to Monty. That way he can heal Jack if needs be. Marlena can't heal instead of draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Put the Wanted Criminal on the Guilty instead Marlena and watch how you can draw 3 cards in a single Dead Outlaw activation. Although I prefer. Guitly double walks forward. Dead outlaw 1 charges and shoots him, cheating a tome, draw a card, use covetous cravings to make hanged fast. Draw another card. Repeat with the other Dead outlaw, make fast montresor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 I personally wouldn't pay the two stones for that, but it's a neat move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinChan Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, LeperColony said: I personally wouldn't pay the two stones for that, but it's a neat move. To make it worth it you would need to draw 4 cards only from the upgrade. Which is complicate, but not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Well, Since you draw one card for the scheme marker, and another for damaging an "enemy" Model with upgrade, only one shot gives you two cards. In two turns you have four cards that you wouldn't have without that upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 If you're cheating in , then you're not netting four cards. But still, I can see the utility, I'm just not sure it's worth the stones to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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