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How should i play Dashel?


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I'm thinking Dashel is gonna be my next crew (i already have Perdita, Basse and Hoffman). I like the idea of a summoning gang but i don't really know how to build It. I played few gamea these days un vassal and i have some cuestions:

How do you build a 50ss list?

Do you star games with 2 executioners or you prefer to get a 13 and summon It?

Which upgrades are good for Minions? And for Dashel or Queeg? 

Any advice of how draw cards?

The Guild would reward any help. :)

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1 hour ago, belorey said:

I'm thinking Dashel is gonna be my next crew (i already have Perdita, Basse and Hoffman). I like the idea of a summoning gang but i don't really know how to build It. I played few gamea these days un vassal and i have some cuestions:

How do you build a 50ss list?

Do you star games with 2 executioners or you prefer to get a 13 and summon It?

Which upgrades are good for Minions? And for Dashel or Queeg? 

Any advice of how draw cards?

The Guild would reward any help. :)

I just picked up Dashel myself so I'm interested in this topic as well!

 

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I think you've got to start with at least one executioner, but I would probably be tempted to go with two of them. They'll get the card draw and walk (likely) from the Dispatcher on turn one with Trail of Gore. They'll likely have focused and perhaps fast depending on your setup (Guild Steward, Queeg, Dashel). I would think they would be a pretty good alpha attack.  I would likely save as many cards as possible for these guys and send them in on anything you can turn one. You'll either do a lot of damage or own the center of the board (or both). 

Maybe 

Dashel, Dispatcher, Queeg, 2x Executioner, Steward, Warden (to protect Dispatcher), and a Rifleman. 7 stones. 

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One of Dashel's strengths right now is that he can play to most Strats and Schemes, which also means there are fewer standard set-ups. I play Dashel a lot! Sometimes I start with two executioners, sometimes I start with two mounted guard, and once before GG1 I took all four.

 

Queeg is in all my lists, because of his utility. I favor two riflemen in many games, but not all. Wardens are a bargain. I never start with dogs or guild patrol. The steward is nice, but I stopped taking him and really don't miss it. Sergeants usually outperform their cost, actually.

My new pets are Mounted Guard; they can move other models with their free action, have high move, can shoot, and don't sleep on thier close-combat attack. Having a 0" melee range is not so bad with move 7 and a chance to get other models in base-to-base. Plus, their demise ability is money.

I used to semi-plan summoning, but those type of plans are very easily ruined, so now I am very much an opportunistic summoner who also considers situational circumstances. GG1 makes Strats and Schemes such a focus, you just never know at  the start of game what kind of summon might get you VP's end game. Sometimes, mutiple guard patrol are better than a single higher-cost summon, and I don't really find starting Slow to be that much of a burden.

Summoning is only possible while Dashel lives, obviously, so if you absolutely NEED that summon to win or tie, be careful with him. Dashel is a pocket beater, who CAN lay down decent damage, but he is also pretty soft and can go down quickly if over-extended. Saying that, don't be afaid to sacrifice Dashel late game if it gains you those VP. Often, opponents do not expect you to Charge Dashel into the center of their crews, and you can leverage that into a major disruption. The Dispatcher is the key to easy summons, so don't let him die too easy; his utilty overall is pretty high. 

Loot Corpse will help with soulstones, but be aware when your opponent plays a crew that drops no corpses. Don't foget to use Pursue! Dashel is a fun master to play and has a ton of low-key synergy, and the changes to the Dispatcher make his crew more playable.

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Not to hijack this thread - but I was able to get a vassal game last night - my first game with Dashel...into Kaeris in Recover Evidence. I had Hidden Martyrs and Vendetta. I brought Dashel, Dispatcher, Queeg, Steward, Pale Rider, Executioner, Warden, Rifleman. 5 stones. I brought the steward to have an extra Foul Mouthed motivation (to give focus/fast) plus some condition removal (Kaeris, plus the trigger gives focus/fast again). My general plan was to activate Dashel and the Steward earlier to hand out focused/fast. I assumed he'd have to come to me and focused on a more balanced crew. 

We only got to play a couple turns due to timing and getting to learn vassal but I learned a lot. I deployed kind of in a bubble to take advantage of shouting orders (Dashel) and taskmaster (Queeg). My goal was to get fast on a lot of models. It worked! I probably overdid it a little and should have kept a couple of the focuses instead. The highlight of the game was my fast executioner pushing from Queeg's prison supt rule, then using trail of gore on the dispatcher (+1 card), then charging into Kaeris who ventured a little too far (she was injured 2 from the pale rider's prev. activiation). I didn't have a great hand but figured out often do you get 3 swings at a weakened master? well I fluffed my attacks and only did 2 damage to her. But it could have been glorious. 

think I underestimated how hard it would be to summon and I give Explorator above a lot of props for his opportunism concept. My starting hand was 8, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. I stoned and ended up with 8, 6, 4, 4, 4, 4. Not a great hand for summoning and couldn't really do much. I found I wasted some AP turn 1 since I had counted on it. 

Big learning moment was on the rifleman first turn. I should have just layered a couple focus on him instead of giving him fast. When he activated I needed focus to burn for added range so ended up wasting AP. 

Dashel just seems very flexible.

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I tried Dashel for the first time last week and enjoyed him quite a bit. It was a game kinda made for him with Ley Lines as the strategy and Vendetta in the pool, which seems pretty easy to achieve with riflemen. I took Dashel, Dispatcher, Queeg, 2x Riflemen, the Steward, an Executioner, and Mounted Guard with no prisoners. It's a crew that can certainly give your opponent a lot to watch out for, with the Riflemen that can both get 2x focused shots per turn and the Executioner who can either use his trail of gore off the Dispatcher or can be thrown forward with No Prisoners. That upgrade is made for the Mounted Guard. 

Setup is certainly tricky, since Dashel needs to be within 6" of the Riflemen for the 2x focused and 8" of the Dispatcher. The Mounted Guard and Executioner need to be withing 2" of each other. The Steward within 6" of one of the Riflemen and 6" from where Dashel will summon a model on turn one. Queeg wants to be less than 6" from the Dispatcher and 4" from any minions that want to push, which can be really good for the Riflemen or Mounted Guard. It isn't hard as such, but there are a lot of dependencies. 

Post errata he seems pretty darn good. The card draw isn't huge, but it is enough. The ability to summon an Executioner is pretty fantastic. They don't last long, but they can sure dish out a lot of damage. Mounted Guard are really solid models as well. Dashel doesn't do anything special beyond the summon, but doesn't really need to. 

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Dashel is F'ing bent!!! Sorry for the hyberbole, but that's my opinion of him! He's the Pre-nerf Nicodem of M3E.

If you don't need to move him (my last game against him was Public Enemies & he took Assassinate & Vendetta. He basically just set up a gunline with 3 rifleman, the Steward, 2 Wardens and a Death Marshal Recruiter. Everything 6ss or less, everything bar the Wardens can be turned into Death Marshals on death and was drawing 2-3 cards a turn and multiple SS after the first.

And before you say it there was terrain. He basically ignores concealing with the amount of focus and there was a huge hill in the middle, so he couldn't see across the centreline. My options were either stay behind the hill and make it a hugely dull and boring game or try and get in there. I chose the latter and was pretty well tabled for a 7-1 defeat. Couldn't scheme (went for breakthrough but he summoned a Mounted to scoot over to deny it, Assassinate wasn't happening with armour 2, a surplus of SS and Steward to heal, Runic Binding & spread them out are just playing into his hand (gimmi dem scheme markers!). Vendetta didn't happen because he chose the right model to blast off the table!

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I really do not understand what you are talking about with the Riflemen and all the concentration...

 

A model can get concenctration "free"  from 3 sources: once form dashels free action, once from the steward and once for its own free action. 

But the Executioners for example want their free action for trail of Gore. So you could give them either fast (Quegg) or fokus.

 

On the other hand Riflemen: A Riflemen can use 4 Focus per turn: 2 Actions, 2 Focus for each. But he gets only 3. No idea how you think you could use 2-3 Riflemen.

If he is in range already he just needs 2 Focus, then 2 Riflemen could work to their full potential. But 3?

 

And where do you get the card draw from? Executioners can "kill" a marker and his summoning produce cards. But I see no other effect?

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2 hours ago, Meliondor said:

 

And where do you get the card draw from? Executioners can "kill" a marker and his summoning produce cards. But I see no other effect?

Queeg's bonus action is another card draw.

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7 hours ago, Meliondor said:

And where do you get the card draw from? Executioners can "kill" a marker and his summoning produce cards. But I see no other effect?

The totem bonus action with trigger is 1 card, 2 if you have steward

Each executionner in team  is 1 card

Dashel's summoning is 1 card

Queeg can be 1 card.

That's alreasdy a lot of draw

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5 hours ago, le_wahou said:

The totem bonus action with trigger is 1 card, 2 if you have steward

Each executionner in team  is 1 card

Dashel's summoning is 1 card

Queeg can be 1 card.

That's alreasdy a lot of draw

Is it a lot? Taking into account that at least 3 of those cards come from a trigger without the suit built-in, I wouldn't consider it a lot. Also it's going to be tricky to keep using the :ToS-Fast: from the Executioners every turn on the Dispatcher, without risking him too much.

It's more like Guards will have a significant amount of card draw, but not that much. 

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Ok, I missed Queggs ability. But it all depends on the totem (that can be quite resilent).

I still do not get the value of more than 2 Riflemen. I think 1 is a really nice addition, he really profits from much Focus first turn. But I still think 6 SS for a riflemen is a huge investment

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18 hours ago, Meliondor said:

Ok, I missed Queggs ability. But it all depends on the totem (that can be quite resilent).

I still do not get the value of more than 2 Riflemen. I think 1 is a really nice addition, he really profits from much Focus first turn. But I still think 6 SS for a riflemen is a huge investment

Heavily depends on the board and strat/schemes. If you've got something like Public Enemies with schemes like Vendetta, Assassinate, Let Them Bleed, or even things like Claim Jump/Leave your mark. Then just sit back and gunline. Even if you just go 2 riflemen & Steward, that's only 18 ss leaving plenty of room for other stuff. Guard also have one of the best schemers in Guild with Mounted Guards (super fast, can drop 2 schemes a turn and even if they die, you've still got a significant model who may be able to finish the job) and a super good beater in Executioners.

 

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On 5/5/2020 at 10:01 PM, Speedguyjp said:

Big learning moment was on the rifleman first turn. I should have just layered a couple focus on him instead of giving him fast. When he activated I needed focus to burn for added range so ended up wasting AP. 

Never give fast on Riflemen until T2. They need focus to add range and shoot focused.

 

If you summon them give'em fast to delete the slow and make them "normal" 2 Ap.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Queeg is not the most obviously useful Henchman, yet I take him in every Dashel list. 

Prison Suprtintendent is a great bubble to provide extra movement to your Guard minions.

2" reach is powerful for engaging enemies with a shorter reach.

Sabatoge Their Plans is one of the most powerful free actions in faction for Guild.

The potential downside to Queeg is that he needs to run with the pack for his Prison Superintendent, but is also useful for potential summoned models to be a move boost when they are slow their first turn. 3" push can get most models unengaged if you need them out of combat.

2" reach is rare, and really is a pain for some enemy models because it forces them to waste an AP to close the distance. 2" reach also allows you to engage multiple enemy models when they bunch up.

Sabotage Their Plans is just plain money late in games; there is no resist, and it is a free tactical action, meaning Queeg can walk twice and still use it with its 6" range. Many times, Queeg can threaten more than one enemy scheme marker before choosing which one to take out. In a VP-based game, flipping a scheme marker can absolutely win games.

 

Queeg has utility early and late game, getting him in the best spot at the right time is the biggest challenge. Like many Henchmen, he can be durable if you have Stones to help reduce damage, and can take out random enemies if they are weakened enough. I usually keep him moving early on, while throwing an occasional shot at targets of opportunity. If I need to tie up some enemy models to prevent them from scoring, I use the whip's 2" reach. If I need to challenge for those scheme markers, I keep him UNENGAGED, so he can pounce at the right moment.

I like Queeg, he just needs to be used like the specialized tool he is.

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23 minutes ago, explorator said:

Queeg is not the most obviously useful Henchman, yet I take him in every Dashel list. 

Prison Suprtintendent is a great bubble to provide extra movement to your Guard minions.

2" reach is powerful for engaging enemies with a shorter reach.

Sabatoge Their Plans is one of the most powerful free actions in faction for Guild.

The potential downside to Queeg is that he needs to run with the pack for his Prison Superintendent, but is also useful for potential summoned models to be a move boost when they are slow their first turn. 3" push can get most models unengaged if you need them out of combat.

2" reach is rare, and really is a pain for some enemy models because it forces them to waste an AP to close the distance. 2" reach also allows you to engage multiple enemy models when they bunch up.

Sabotage Their Plans is just plain money late in games; there is no resist, and it is a free tactical action, meaning Queeg can walk twice and still use it with its 6" range. Many times, Queeg can threaten more than one enemy scheme marker before choosing which one to take out. In a VP-based game, flipping a scheme marker can absolutely win games.

 

Queeg has utility early and late game, getting him in the best spot at the right time is the biggest challenge. Like many Henchmen, he can be durable if you have Stones to help reduce damage, and can take out random enemies if they are weakened enough. I usually keep him moving early on, while throwing an occasional shot at targets of opportunity. If I need to tie up some enemy models to prevent them from scoring, I use the whip's 2" reach. If I need to challenge for those scheme markers, I keep him UNENGAGED, so he can pounce at the right moment.

I like Queeg, he just needs to be used like the specialized tool he is.

Solid advice. The extra movement is something that I did not consider. I’m going to get him painted and on the table. The anti scheming tech is also clutch. I’ve had a lot of success with Daschel, but just haven’t got Queeg in there.  

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On 6/9/2020 at 2:14 AM, Meliondor said:

Ok, I missed Queggs ability. But it all depends on the totem (that can be quite resilent).

I still do not get the value of more than 2 Riflemen. I think 1 is a really nice addition, he really profits from much Focus first turn. But I still think 6 SS for a riflemen is a huge investment

You do realize they can be summoned, right? 

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I was playing with the idea of Barker as second to Lucius - mainly because I love Lucy-us and the executioners, but have never been a fan of Dashel.

Lucius

Scribe

Barker

Dispatcher

2x Lawyers

2x False Witnesses

- or at least something like it.

Lucius and his Elites would disrupt the opponents crew, being general nuisances with Obey and dumping scheme markers left and right, while Dashel would fire off ‘Executioner Missiles’ to be commanded by Lucius and his Lawyers, stripping them of Slow, also generally ensuring Dashers summons via their card cycling abilities. 
 

Once Dashel has summoned his third model, he has paid for himself and then some, while being a fairly okay-ish Henchman in his own right.

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On 7/4/2020 at 8:02 AM, Regelridderen said:

Once Dashel has summoned his third model

That's a bit of a wait without any real frontline beef to the crew.

i know in theory Lucius can mill cards like there's no tomorrow, but his crew also needs to hit TNs a lot, and saving the good cards (and stones?) for Dashel's summoning puts a pretty tough limit on your early card economy.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Anyone using a second master with Dashel? Lady J, Perdita, Lucius, and Sonnia all seem like they could be possibilities. I haven't tried it mind you, but since he can summon about everything he needs it could be fun to bring different masters for different situations. 

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16 hours ago, Trample said:

Anyone using a second master with Dashel? Lady J, Perdita, Lucius, and Sonnia all seem like they could be possibilities. I haven't tried it mind you, but since he can summon about everything he needs it could be fun to bring different masters for different situations. 

I tried Lucius yesterday, he seemed to be a good addition to the minion-heavy guard. But he was quite disappointing. You waste 2-3 Master AP to obey your own guys. I rather have 2x 8 SS Henchmen or just another GuildRifle than 1x16 SS Lucius to have nearly the same effect. His bonusaction was only useful once and the extra card isn't worth it either.

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