Ressers Changes post Errata

[Speedguyjp]

Hard enough getting into this game to theory-faux (used to call it theory hammer!) lists and then a big errata drops. With the changes to Archie and Manos's reliquary do people still plan to include these guys all the time? 

I would certainly still take Manos in a Yan Lo crew, but wondering who is seeing more reps with the adjustment. I haven't seen Toshiro get any love here but his reliquary seems decent and with the ability to summon I was thinking I might give him a couple runs in different list setups.

With Archie's changes are people going to jump to the other beaters or make it work?

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think people haven't been able to to test that much due to covid, but Archie feels a lot worse out of keyword IMO. Even Forgotten finds him a bit clunky now.

Manos, barely changed, I think he is still great.

Toshiro is really good, IMO, just because Ashigaru are so good at bogging down a game. He is good at defending against Assassinate and securing a zone like claim jump.

[Gloomy]

I thought the Archie nerf was fine in the beginning, but after using forgotten in about 5 or 6 games since the errata I think they went a bit too far. I definitely wouldn't take him out of keyword anymore. In keyword he hasn't performed that well for me either, but I'm not writing him off just yet. I think if he'd just lost the suit from leap he would've been fine

Manos was a good nerf and makes sense. He's still very good in keyword and a sometimes tech pic out of keyword

[Harlekin]

1 hour ago, Wintergloom said:

I thought the Archie nerf was fine in the beginning, but after using forgotten in about 5 or 6 games since the errata I think they went a bit too far. I definitely wouldn't take him out of keyword anymore. In keyword he hasn't performed that well for me either, but I'm not writing him off just yet. I think if he'd just lost the suit from leap he would've been fine

Manos was a good nerf and makes sense. He's still very good in keyword and a sometimes tech pic out of keyword

What bothers you most? Is it the loss of Ruthless? I didn't play Forgotten since the Errata but thought of the nerf being okay. He is less of a Mary Sue inside and outside of Keyword and his main schtick as a beater (Flurry including auto-heal) is still there. I only wish for the new bonus action being a front side ability so that it could be used for a Leap if in dire need. 

Looking forward for more reports on him after nerf (outside of ranting). 

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 hours ago, Harlekin said:

What bothers you most? Is it the loss of Ruthless? I didn't play Forgotten since the Errata but thought of the nerf being okay. He is less of a Mary Sue inside and outside of Keyword and his main schtick as a beater (Flurry including auto-heal) is still there. I only wish for the new bonus action being a front side ability so that it could be used for a Leap if in dire need. 

Looking forward for more reports on him after nerf (outside of ranting). 

I always run him as a scheme runner in forgotten, as he is too squishy to be a dedicated beater. So his primary role for me has been nerfed significantly.

I agree they needed to make the 'snag a suit' work for leap.

His unrestricted mobility really made him for me. I'd rather they'd have nerfed his damage.

So for me, it is definitely the suit xD. But the movement nerf hurts a bit too.

[Harlekin]

He isn't a tank, yes. But still a beater. The opponent still has to take him down in one turn... Don't see the big troubles. Low Def and not really many Def tricks is no news for Rezzers, imho. 

[Wyamphri]

Honestly, I've been taking rogue necro, and Philip alot more. The nerf feels like it killed him in keyword. Having to have a 7 for his other bonus action just feels bad, and 90% of the time, I'd rather leap. I really think losing ruthless killed him for me.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 hours ago, Wyamphri said:

Honestly, I've been taking rogue necro, and Philip alot more. The nerf feels like it killed him in keyword. Having to have a 7 for his other bonus action just feels bad, and 90% of the time, I'd rather leap. I really think losing ruthless killed him for me.

I've always taken Philip and the Nanny more than the average Molly player (14" of movement a turn is just fabulous for an extra crooligan beacon when your others aren't enough), although I think Dead Rider + necrotic machine is probably more powerful.

I've been considering taking up the Rogue Necro for the consistent movement. Plus it can gain the focused condition, and projectile vomit is amazinggggg.

8 hours ago, Harlekin said:

He isn't a tank, yes. But still a beater. The opponent still has to take him down in one turn... Don't see the big troubles. Low Def and not really many Def tricks is no news for Rezzers, imho. 

As for Archie being a beater - he can't focus and his triggers are meh, so his role as a primary beater is always going to pale compared to some other models IMO. I've always seen him as a scheme runner/anti scheme-runner that can double as a beater. Compared to Dead Rider, Teddy, the Valedictorian, etc, I'm not sure Archie is as scary as a beater. Even models like Rogue Necro with less attacks in theory can end up being a lot more potent with their triggers.

His tankiness I actually think is about in the right spot - the enemy still has to work pretty hard to take him down, and if you play him right, the enemy still has to at least account for the possibility that you'll leap away and all their setup to kill him goes to waste.

Personally the only thing I don't like is that he is now unreliable (which is the absolute worst thing for a schemer/anti-schemer to be imo. You want some certainty in your scheme planning - your opponent is going to throw in enough uncertainty as it is).

Just my playstyle, anyway!

And granted, the lore behind him is that he SHOULD be a beater, so probably okay if they shift him in that direction. Could easily drop leap for Juggernaut, and then rework his fading ability to mimic focus for example.

[Harlekin]

The lack of Focus hurts Archie's role as a beater a lot, indeed. But if the reaction of us players is that we now start to bring Rogue and Phil a lot more this just prooves that the nerf waa the right thing to do.

I still consider Archie good in Keyword with all the card draw generated by Molly. He needs a setup, now - maybe a bit too much, I'd say. I think he mainly needs some buff on the defenses or more/better healing. While Terrifying 12 is good, especially versus low to average models, it's just not enough versus too many attack pieces. This would change him more to a tank than a beater, but with Min3 he can still get through almost everything in 2 turns. 

Maybe a Tear of a Bite-Trigger or something similar could also help him with his role. The (usually 1 point of) healing every turn just isn't enough for a tank usually being on his own.

I consider most of the disappointment about him is about him getting nerfed from being an autotake even OOK (always bad for a game) to something being considered in Keyword (which is what should always be the goal when it comes to game design/balancing).

[Maniacal_cackle]

True, worth testing out the other builds!

Now that the Archie/crooligan combo is a bit weaker, and the other reason*, I might try out P&N/night terror combo.

*the other reason is I now play on Vassal, so I can play the models I don't own like Night Terrors 😜

[NoahScape]

On 4/29/2020 at 3:00 PM, Speedguyjp said:

Hard enough getting into this game to theory-faux (used to call it theory hammer!) lists and then a big errata drops. With the changes to Archie and Manos's reliquary do people still plan to include these guys all the time? 

I would certainly still take Manos in a Yan Lo crew, but wondering who is seeing more reps with the adjustment. I haven't seen Toshiro get any love here but his reliquary seems decent and with the ability to summon I was thinking I might give him a couple runs in different list setups.

With Archie's changes are people going to jump to the other beaters or make it work?

Manos is still worth it, but the reduced regen sucks. 

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, IronmanKC81 said:

Manos is still worth it, but the reduced regen sucks. 

 

 

Isn't that only on the reliquary? He still has 2 regen.

And for OOK use, you don't generally plan to use the reliquary if you can avoid it.