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4 hours ago, LexLock said:

Just hope to get masks, you have a decent chance with two Ancient Pacts (although you don't want to go with the Rougarou before you've given Titania focus because it'll be pushing her up 12"), you don't really need to worry about consistently growing the Matures turn 2 because they're really just backup for Titania. BBS can also just fly off and do schemes pretty respectably provided you've thrown enough of a wrench in your opponent's crew that they won't just be killed.

The main reinforcements for Titania is Killjoy, who is similarly hard to put down and has a spooky damage track with focus. You can kinda treat this list like a 2e Viks crew (not as wondrously murderous, but still), where you're trying to send your master in to do enough damage that the rest of your crew can act with impunity.

It's then as I thought... with the Vasilisa set up above in some games I barely got the 2 triggers after drawing cards with AP and expending SS for them in turn 1 (while in other I had plenty)... getting 4 of them consistently should be quite hard; however using BBS as runners when you don't get the focus is a good idea... I tunel visioned about growing them both... I'm too greedy sometimes XD.

4 hours ago, LexLock said:

I think BBS are almost worth 7ss for Blasphemous Ritual alone, it is just so efficient to hand out that much focus. Vasilisa is amazing but her Move Along aura doesn't synergise with Titania's alpha strike because you'll be relying on Germinate with Cradle of Life, maybe she's more efficient but it's hard to fit another enforcer into this list without giving up some of the benefits from Ancient Pact.

Agree, BBS are (imho) top tier to build good agro lists; I'm really waiting for Matures to get released to stop proxing them with Cyclops XD.

I like and play with masters that go well with Constructs/Puppets, so Vasilisa is usually a good pick for me; it's true tho that may not be the best pick with Titania because those models aren't unimpeded. I'll definitelly try that double BBS build; in fact I've been thinking about it for a while, but I wasn't 100% sure about how it'd work for how unreliable it seems.

However in case you want to try that build, adapting your list to that Vasilisa opening without giving up the initiative advantage is possible: just change the Waldgeist with AP for a Doll with AP and the second BBS for Vasilisa (and you also get 2 extra SS to get a full 10SS cache or put IR in Killjoy!). The opening it's not really hard and it's quite fixed which helps to play faster (something I personally apretiate), it's as follows:

The doll will use Threaten in the model that is gong to get attacked by the BBS and will set up a scheme marker for Vasilisa's bonus action; BBS attack twice with :+flip and Bonus action; Vasilisa then Bonus (Grow the BBS), Focus, Walk (+Move Along; leave the doll between Vasilisa and the Mature). That will set up the turn 2 for those 3 models; in turn 2 (after wining initiative, doing your thing with Titania and activating any of the other models as needed) the doll will be in range to put another scheme marker within 3'' of the Mature that will be used by Vasilisa to give a Move action to the Mature, then the Mature will activate, heal to 8 and will also have the bonus action to reposition (this may also be used to move Vasilisa forward) before charging to reinforce Titania/Killjoy/Rougarou as needed. I've had good results with that kind of opening, I'm not sure if that would work better than yours for Titania, but it may be worth a shot.

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My main question for the first list is "Why 9ss cache"?

I would go with another Changeling, to give my opponent another pass token and hope to draw a card if they use it, while having another activation. Otherwise, I would use double Ancient Pact in the Lawyer, to have a nice advantage in the initiative flip, extra card draw to ensure those severe damage with Angel Eyes and Agent 46 and to reduce the chances of a Black Joker ruining the Obey-chain.

The BBS is clearly to spam some focus every turn onto Angel Eyes and hopefully Agent 46. But I'm a total Lucius noob, so maybe I'm totally wrong here. Anyways, I love the first list and I really like to see Angel Eyes getting some use :)

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10 hours ago, ShinChan said:

My main question for the first list is "Why 9ss cache"?

I would go with another Changeling, to give my opponent another pass token and hope to draw a card if they use it, while having another activation. Otherwise, I would use double Ancient Pact in the Lawyer, to have a nice advantage in the initiative flip, extra card draw to ensure those severe damage with Angel Eyes and Agent 46 and to reduce the chances of a Black Joker ruining the Obey-chain.

My guess would be buying triggers like crazy (Von schtook models are tough as nails so either critical strike or AP are needed to have a chance to deal meaningful damage, tho Agent's Analyze Weakness have to help in this match up a lot) and make SS users harder to kill (very little healing in that list).

The double AP is in general good, but the card draw isn't that needed with how much card draw Lucius already have and it's extra risky versus that master because he could remove 8SS from the list easily while summoing reinforcements. The Valedictorian Slingshot opening he usually use is pretty effective versus models like Lawyers or BBSs (Lucius have a very good hand, but it's hard to defend with Df 4-5 versus stat 7 with Focused and the ability to stone puncture) and he can also send more models with Focused in easily with another slingshot combo or Undergraduates with By your side to kill the other one; Lucius could then retaliate, but his obey and shielded engine would be pretty much gutted by that point. The last thing I'd want is rewarding him more for killing my models.

I do like Changelings tho, maybe easy to kill but cheap enough to not give up summons when killed while still giving  card draw and extra AP to more powerful models.

11 hours ago, ShinChan said:

The BBS is clearly to spam some focus every turn onto Angel Eyes and hopefully Agent 46. But I'm a total Lucius noob, so maybe I'm totally wrong here. Anyways, I love the first list and I really like to see Angel Eyes getting some use :)

Yep, you are right here, Focused is one of the big reasons. But in addition to that the BBS grows into a Mature (I'd say in turn 2 in this list), which is a powerful minion that Lucius can command easily with a min 3 damage the Agent may copy. Lucius is also one of the few masters with the card draw needed to make good use of his combat finesse (most other masters tend to deplete their hands way more easily, so at the end of the turn the Mature cannot cheat defensively anyway). The Mature is also bit risky versus VS with no extra healing because a 10SS model dying will give him a very good summon.

That's why I'm curious about the pool, enemy list and how he played it. He should have played this list quite well because any mistake with it versus VS can make things go south real fast.

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On 8/10/2020 at 11:17 AM, Ogid said:

Ty for the lists :)

Would you mind giving us a bit of context about this game (pool, enemy list...)? Those 2 Lawyers and even the BBS himself seems like good targets for Von Schtook summoning alpha strike and growing that BBS into a Mature without a way to heal him can also set up a nasty summon against you (was the Lawyer shielded enough to keep him alive?). How did you manage to avoid that?

A few question about this set up.

When I want to an alpha strike, I tend to use Vasilisa + 1 BBS (and most of the time +1 doll); it's more expensive but the doll may put adversary in the target the BBS is about to knife, letting him attack with a :+flip; this let me get those 2 masks really consistently without having to rely that heavily in my hand. I can also grow the Mature in turn 1 thanks to Vasilisa, and that also put Focused+2 in my striker. Growing the Mature early and Vasilisa being able to feed him another extra action in turn 2 helps me to reinforce the alpha strike with a fully functioning and 8Wds Mature (or even fully healed when I also include Serena) in turn 2 instead of in turn 3, it also minimices the risk of losing the BBS; the Vasilisa + Doll pair is usually useful on their own from that point, but it's not useless going into the fray.

Your set up seems quite interesting, it strikes later but with 2 matures but it seems also a bit risky because it gives more breathing time to the other player in turn 2 and it requires a lot of masks... How consistently do you get the mask you need in turn 1 to generate all those corpses without wasting actions that get no trigger with the BBS (ideally, you need 4 masks there to not waste BBS actions/cards in turn 2, but with 2 should be enough to give Titania that Focused+2)? How consistently do you manage to grow those 2 BBS into Matures in turn 2? Do you like more this double BBS one than one with Vasilisa? How did this kind of set up work if you don't manage to grow 1 or both Matures in turn 2?

If was corner and symbols. Schemes were Research Mission, breakthrough, martyrs, vendetta and leave mark. 
I took vendetta (valedictorian) and martyrs (Angel eyes, changeling) 

his List was

New Prof. Von Schtook Crew (Resurrectionist)
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Prof. Von Schtook
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Research Assistant
Hires:
  Anna Lovelace
  The Valedictorian
    Killer Instinct
  Carrion Emissary
  Necropunk
  Necropunk 2


 

There was a huge distance between our crews. The lawyers stood in the backrow and were quite protected By distance and friendly models/terrain first turn. I Managed to reduce the valedictorians LP with Angel eyes (-6 LP) first turn and my opponent played more and more defensive. Also bc I got his assistend and one necropunk killed early game... he was def. Surprised by the bbs angel lawyer combo. Even though his placement was good my angel eyes or agent always got a good angle to shoot...

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  • 4 weeks later...

This Is the most competitive crew we Found in never with the penis team (like always Felix UK national, Gonzalo 8 in UK national, me and other players in our team that have a same level) 

Pain Crew (Neverborn)

Size: 50 - Pool: 6

Leader:

  Zoraida

Hires:

  The Dreamer

  Spawn Mother

  The First Mate

  Gautraeux Bokor

    Ancient Pact

  Gautraeux Bokor 2

With the dreamer you hit the bokors to give glowy and fast and summond a stitched

You make the draw card combo of bokors

Summon gupp with the spawn and walk to make node for the Zoraida nuclear bomb

And the last Zoraida hit with hex, the stitched unbury, Zoraida hit with hex (trying to use the mask trigger) and the last action of Zoraida Is make a doble obey to the stitched, with the injured 2 of the hex and the hand that You farm with the bokors its provably you kill the model that you hit. 

The other turns you Scheme with the spawn, gupps and other models like dreamer 

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On 9/8/2020 at 11:05 AM, darksoul281 said:

Pain Crew (Neverborn)

Size: 50 - Pool: 6

Leader:

  Zoraida

Hires:

  The Dreamer

  Spawn Mother

  The First Mate

  Gautraeux Bokor

    Ancient Pact

  Gautraeux Bokor 2

With the dreamer you hit the bokors to give glowy and fast and summond a stitched

You make the draw card combo of bokors

Summon gupp with the spawn and walk to make node for the Zoraida nuclear bomb

And the last Zoraida hit with hex, the stitched unbury, Zoraida hit with hex (trying to use the mask trigger) and the last action of Zoraida Is make a doble obey to the stitched, with the injured 2 of the hex and the hand that You farm with the bokors its provably you kill the model that you hit. 

The other turns you Scheme with the spawn, gupps and other models like dreamer 

Ty! That's an interesting list... I've yet to get into those Zoraida shenanigans, cool concept. A few questions if you don't mind:

Isn't that much card draw with 2 bokors plus AP overkill? isn't Injured+2 not enough to guarantee those attacks? If Dreamer is the only one attacking in turn 1 and he has to summon, he can only attack twice. That's only 2 guaranteed triggers for bokors the first turn unless I'm missing something (the doll is good for this, but it couldn't act until after Zoraida's activation; so it cannot help to draw cards for the first turn big combo)

Why did you went with that instead of cutting a bokor with AP for another combat focused model for Zoraida like Hinamatsu, Juju or even LCB (that may also get cards for Stitcheds with Lucid Dreams), more scheming power with Grootslang or a Silurid or even WW to double down in that Stitcheds theme? That list seems to rely heavily on that combo for damage and the SS expent on support is high.

Why didn't you included a Wisp to threaten models you manage to put the totem's upgrade on? Is that a model you would consider in other Zoraida lists?

When would you consider that list? The focus seems to be more in the scheming with the first mate and the Mother/Grups + Dreamer without support more than in the damage; is this an schemy list with that damage combo to draw attention away from your schemers or is a list you would consider into serious combat pools?

On 9/8/2020 at 11:05 AM, darksoul281 said:

...with the penis team...

giphy.gif

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On 9/12/2020 at 7:33 PM, Ogid said:

Ty! That's an interesting list... I've yet to get into those Zoraida shenanigans, cool concept. A few questions if you don't mind:

Isn't that much card draw with 2 bokors plus AP overkill? isn't Injured+2 not enough to guarantee those attacks? If Dreamer is the only one attacking in turn 1 and he has to summon, he can only attack twice. That's only 2 guaranteed triggers for bokors the first turn unless I'm missing something (the doll is good for this, but it couldn't act until after Zoraida's activation; so it cannot help to draw cards for the first turn big combo)

Why did you went with that instead of cutting a bokor with AP for another combat focused model for Zoraida like Hinamatsu, Juju or even LCB (that may also get cards for Stitcheds with Lucid Dreams), more scheming power with Grootslang or a Silurid or even WW to double down in that Stitcheds theme? That list seems to rely heavily on that combo for damage and the SS expent on support is high.

Why didn't you included a Wisp to threaten models you manage to put the totem's upgrade on? Is that a model you would consider in other Zoraida lists?

When would you consider that list? The focus seems to be more in the scheming with the first mate and the Mother/Grups + Dreamer without support more than in the damage; is this an schemy list with that damage combo to draw attention away from your schemers or is a list you would consider into serious combat pools?

giphy.gif

You Can draw a lot of cards with the stones, The bokors draw and the zoraida's bonus action, and with this draw you always draw another crow. 

Yes, When you make this combo you unbury a ST near to the enemy deploidment and the enemy need to kill because the 3/4/5 damage, with banish/cheat from bashis is so powerful. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/20/2020 at 1:21 AM, LexLock said:

I use it for the hazardous damage. You just need an undergrowth marker near Titania and the thing you're trying to kill, then use her bonus action to move it under Titania (and preferably the enemy), pinging her for a damage and activating the hazardous.

Given I am often already using the Cradle of life trigger to get close to my target, it isn't that awkward to position it a little closer.

How are you 'pinging' Titania for damage from the marker if she is unaffected by Underbrush markers?

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