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What is in your opinion the worst model in the game?


esqulax

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I had a recent game that made me consider this question. I had always looked at Bloodwretches on paper and thought they looked awful, but I was not at all prepared for how terrible they actually are when putting them on the table. Df 5 wp 4 health 5 and no defensive tech means that they go down if something sneezes a bit too hard in their direction.

Being less sturdy than even the most brittle of glass means that you would expect them to hit hard, but their 1 inch, stat 5, 2/3/4 dmg attack leaves much to be desired.  Their one good feature is their bonus action that allows them to push and gain focus, but it also deals them 1 damage, which is a whooping 20% of their health. 

So Bloodwretches are my vote for the currently worst model in the game. What is yours? 

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for a cheap (4-5 ss) model to be good it needs to be highly specialized imo. so every 4-5 ss model without a cleary defined role is a contender for "the worst model" title. I haven't seen Hoarcat Pride in play but when I think about horrible models they are the first thing which comes to my mind. they seem to be completely pointless and designed with no clear purpose within their keyword.

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Winged Plague... It wants to be within 3" of the enemy, it has no ability to survive to get that close, dying where it's demise will have no effect on anyone and wasting 4 stones, where you could had hired 2 more Rats for the same cost, gotten double the activations and actions, and their demise let's you draw cards instead.

 

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Molemen. They are very squishy, but want to get hit in order to do their cool thing. They are in an upgrade crew, but putting any upgrades on one is a waste because you could have put it on a Cerberus instead. They are bad schemers because they are slow, and their mobility trick already requires a friendly scheme marker.... a cerberus schemes better with their leap. They dont do damage either with 1/2/4 damage track, which is abysmal compared to the Cerberus.

You might be wondering why I keep comparing them to a Cerberus. They are in a super expensive keyword so youd expect a cheap runner to be helpful. The problem is you need to hire 2 to be actually impactful... which is the exact same price as a Cerberus...

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22 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

for a cheap (4-5 ss) model to be good it needs to be highly specialized imo. so every 4-5 ss model without a cleary defined role is a contender for "the worst model" title.

 

I do agree, I actually think that is one of the biggest flaws with m3. Most cheap models got a huge indirect nerf with the introduction of pass tokens, but most cheap models then also got nerfed directly, meaning that most of them are bad to very bad. 

I get the feeling that some factions have it better, but it is definitely the case in Neverborn.

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Bloodwretch (and Half-Blood) are apparently very good against shockwave crews. In fact, it is conceivable that you pretty much never get to see Half-bloods be useful because they're too useful in their niche situation:

  • Players declare factions.
  • One player declares Neverborn.
  • Other player thinks "right, guess I'm not playing a crew based on shockwaves, they can just counterpick me with versatile Half-Bloods immune to my stuff.

I've heard some people say that half-bloods are the only Neverborn models that give them a hard time for their crews. So while Bloodwretch might not actually see any play, their mere existence may be stopping people from picking certain crews against you. But other than that, yes, I think most people feel they're pretty useless (although who knows how strong they'll get if Explorer's Society gives them a master/other tools).

In Ressers, Lampads certainly feel like the most complained about model, although I don't know if they're the weakest... That honour would probably go to a Redchapel model (Belles get the most hate from memory, although I always get the names of the models mixed up).

EDIT: Also agree with the comments about low-cost models/pass tokens. It is a shame, as all our locals much prefer playing with smaller models, but are very aware it isn't very competitive. We sometimes add restrictions on big elite models, so it doesn't just become a super high-powered table.

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2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Bloodwretch (and Half-Blood) are apparently very good against shockwave crews. In fact, it is conceivable that you pretty much never get to see Half-bloods be useful because they're too useful in their niche situation:

  • Players declare factions.
  • One player declares Neverborn.
  • Other player thinks "right, guess I'm not playing a crew based on shockwaves, they can just counterpick me with versatile Half-Bloods immune to my stuff.

I've heard some people say that half-bloods are the only Neverborn models that give them a hard time for their crews. So while Bloodwretch might not actually see any play, their mere existence may be stopping people from picking certain crews against you. But other than that, yes, I think most people feel they're pretty useless (although who knows how strong they'll get if Explorer's Society gives them a master/other tools).

I don't really play a Shockwave crew so I never thought about that.  A Wong crew would just crumble against that half of the starter box & Tuco.  Wow, that's 17 points for 6 models that are flat out immune to AoE... less than half your stones!

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5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Bloodwretch (and Half-Blood) are apparently very good against shockwave crews. In fact, it is conceivable that you pretty much never get to see Half-bloods be useful because they're too useful in their niche situation:

  • Players declare factions.
  • One player declares Neverborn.
  • Other player thinks "right, guess I'm not playing a crew based on shockwaves, they can just counterpick me with versatile Half-Bloods immune to my stuff.

I've heard some people say that half-bloods are the only Neverborn models that give them a hard time for their crews. So while Bloodwretch might not actually see any play, their mere existence may be stopping people from picking certain crews against you. But other than that, yes, I think most people feel they're pretty useless (although who knows how strong they'll get if Explorer's Society gives them a master/other tools).

In Ressers, Lampads certainly feel like the most complained about model, although I don't know if they're the weakest... That honour would probably go to a Redchapel model (Belles get the most hate from memory, although I always get the names of the models mixed up).

EDIT: Also agree with the comments about low-cost models/pass tokens. It is a shame, as all our locals much prefer playing with smaller models, but are very aware it isn't very competitive. We sometimes add restrictions on big elite models, so it doesn't just become a super high-powered table.

I can say 100% honest that I do not believe there is a single crew in the game that is so shockwave focused that they would struggle against a df 5 wp 4 model with 5 health and a stat 5 2/3/4 dmg track. 

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5 hours ago, esqulax said:

I can say 100% honest that I do not believe there is a single crew in the game that is so shockwave focused that they would struggle against a df 5 wp 4 model with 5 health and a stat 5 2/3/4 dmg track. 

I'm not sure, it is just what I've heard. But there is plenty of discussion in the faction forums about them, so won't derail the thread.

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10 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

I don't really play a Shockwave crew so I never thought about that.  A Wong crew would just crumble against that half of the starter box & Tuco.  Wow, that's 17 points for 6 models that are flat out immune to AoE... less than half your stones!

17 stones for 6 models? All the half bloods together are 33 stones. (And unless you are somehow playing against a crew that is literally incapable of throwing out anything other than AOE, I doubt it would be worth 33 stones) 

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I was gonna mention the Bayou Smuggler, but then I remembered that they received a pretty significant change in the latest errata - Not sure if I'm sold on the new one, but the potential is there.

So many models have that niche-situation that they can be relevant in, that I struggle to name a really bad model. 

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On 4/25/2020 at 7:59 AM, Mycellanious said:

Molemen. They are very squishy, but want to get hit in order to do their cool thing. They are in an upgrade crew, but putting any upgrades on one is a waste because you could have put it on a Cerberus instead. They are bad schemers because they are slow, and their mobility trick already requires a friendly scheme marker.... a cerberus schemes better with their leap. They dont do damage either with 1/2/4 damage track, which is abysmal compared to the Cerberus.

You might be wondering why I keep comparing them to a Cerberus. They are in a super expensive keyword so youd expect a cheap runner to be helpful. The problem is you need to hire 2 to be actually impactful... which is the exact same price as a Cerberus...

Got mine with the rest of my Marcus supplements and they are the only ones I haven't even bothered to assemble. And I assemble *everything* like the week I get it.

I guess maybe if you put the Stealth Mutation upgrade on them they could be OK at scheming? As long as the enemy leaves them alone...

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1 hour ago, dzlier said:

Got mine with the rest of my Marcus supplements and they are the only ones I haven't even bothered to assemble. And I assemble *everything* like the week I get it.

I guess maybe if you put the Stealth Mutation upgrade on them they could be OK at scheming? As long as the enemy leaves them alone...

To me, the big issue with Moleman, and a lot of these low cost minions, is that they lack clear roles in the game such that there'd be a point to taking them.

For instance, they could have made Molemen a Chimera version of Soulstone Miners.  Then there'd be a reason for Marcus to take them, but at 5 stones OOK, other people would pay the 6th stone to get a soulstone miner because they're better.

This is just one idea, there's many ways to make Molemen better.  But making them better begins by giving them a role.

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21 hours ago, esqulax said:

17 stones for 6 models? All the half bloods together are 33 stones. (And unless you are somehow playing against a crew that is literally incapable of throwing out anything other than AOE, I doubt it would be worth 33 stones) 

And it's 5 models, not 6. I'm not sure where that math came from...

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13 hours ago, dzlier said:

Got mine with the rest of my Marcus supplements and they are the only ones I haven't even bothered to assemble. And I assemble *everything* like the week I get it.

I guess maybe if you put the Stealth Mutation upgrade on them they could be OK at scheming? As long as the enemy leaves them alone...

The problem then is that you are using a master AP and one of the best upgrades to make a bad model into a sorta decent model. 

You save a whole bunch of trouble by just taking decent to good models to begin with. 

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8 hours ago, esqulax said:

The problem then is that you are using a master AP and one of the best upgrades to make a bad model into a sorta decent model. 

You save a whole bunch of trouble by just taking decent to good models to begin with. 

Yeah fair, I do tend to use both of those upgrades even without Molemen.

I will say that it's potentially only 1/2 of a Master AP though since you're likely trying to hit the Quick Reflexes trigger.

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It's not so much that the Molemen (or similar low cost, bad minions like Desperate Mercenaries) are worthless.  If you had one for free, you could find useful things to do.  

But they're just never worth hiring.  Since unspent stones have value in the game, they even have to compete with just not being bought.  I'd rather have 5 cache than 1 cache and a Moleman.

And so it's almost always going to be preferable to use the stones to hire a more expensive and effective model, or to not spend them at all and have a cache (or some upgrades).

 

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28 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

It's not so much that the Molemen (or similar low cost, bad minions like Desperate Mercenaries) are worthless.  If you had one for free, you could find useful things to do.  

But they're just never worth hiring.  Since unspent stones have value in the game, they even have to compete with just not being bought.  I'd rather have 5 cache than 1 cache and a Moleman.

And so it's almost always going to be preferable to use the stones to higher a more expensive and effective model, or to not spend them at all and have a cache (or some upgrades).

So, I built an all stealth crew lead by The First Mate, and being a henchman lead crew I get Lucky Effigy for free.... but I don't take it, because it's not stealth and what it does doesn't help the theme of the crew.  So because it would be the only non-stealthed thing on the table, it then becomes a liability for the crew.

If given for free in the proper crew, would the useless models still be useless or find a use? 

Well given almost every model has a Mv value & can Interact, yes, they would have a value as a piss poor scheme runner.  But outside of that, not at all.

Free Winged Plague?  It's Vermin so I can make it fast, I can turn it into a scheme marker, I can explode them.

Free Bloodwretch?  Its still got potential 3 "charges" in it.

Free Desperate Mercenary?  They have Rapid Fire and Battle Tempo, so it still is moving with 3 shots.

 

In the inverse, you get Totems for free (except for Viktoria), would you ever pay for that model on purpose?

Doc Mitchell?  Arcane Reservoir, healing & free Assist actions is worth 4 points.

Amanjaku?  HELL YES!

Apprentice Wesley?  A god send!

... and don't even get me started on the Henchmen totems!

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Like, there's kind of this weird dileniation where you go between 'Minion' and 'Enforcer/Henchman' probably at this stage.

Anyone can justify their own 'worst model ever.'

Ruffians are straight garbage unless your opponent is spamming terrifying. Then they become somewhat legitimate side attackers. I mean, they flip honest vs. Lord Chompy Bits with their derringers with free focus and can get the focus back whenever they walk. So they may not be 'straight garbage' there.

Winged Plague are REALLY bad in Outcasts, and they have no real home in that crew outside of niche setups with Benny Engine, if you can even call the Benny Engine a thing. The argument that they are able to get fast is great, but what do they do for the crew? They're just fast and can scheme if they don't get shot and rats are better at the mobile living bomb thing since you can also turn them into Rat Kings.

Desperate Mercenary also kind of fills the role of completely garbage model, as well. Battle Tempo at least makes it decent for scoring, but it's still not what anyone would call 'good' I'd think.

Then there's the enforcer category, full of oft misunderstood pieces or pieces that just have no practical purpose. 

Old Enslaved Nephilim prior to the FAQ was apparently so bad people were thinking of just NOT taking it for Hero's Gamble and a pass token allegedly. All of these have arguments for why they're so bad.

Guild Hounds are hands down though, the worst model in Malifaux.

Hired in they're MV6 scheme runners that are only 3 health, so one Min 3 looking at them just destroys them utterly.

Their defensive stats are absolute garbage.

They only work in groups. They do attack at stat 6, but only on models that have activated or if they're around other Guild Hounds. Oh, their damage track starts at min 1. Hunting Partner is pretty okay, but they're an annoyance tie-up piece that can't even take a hit. Worst is, you can't summon them in. Mindless means they don't act the turn they're summoned and the On Patrol upgrade gives them slow. So they're useless for the majority of two turns. 

If you run 4 of them, and, I don't know why you would except for a skew list of epic proportions, then you're golden until you get blasted once or twice or even a shockwave or two.

It's just not worth the investment of stones. You're better off taking Lead Lined Coat on Queeg or Barker rather than one of these things, even if you need a scheme runner. Mounted Guard run schemes far better and dismount when they die to maybe get that last interact in before dying like chumps.

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On 4/27/2020 at 2:38 PM, dzlier said:

Got mine with the rest of my Marcus supplements and they are the only ones I haven't even bothered to assemble. And I assemble *everything* like the week I get it.

I guess maybe if you put the Stealth Mutation upgrade on them they could be OK at scheming? As long as the enemy leaves them alone...

I would never put an upgrade on them, because you cant get it off unless they die, which defeats the purpose of putting the upgrade on them?

Imo, what they need is to make Tunneling target ANY MARKER (non strategy obviously). This would make them more like cheap Sabateurs (Tunnel to enemy scheme marker, remove, place your own) which fluff wise is what they are supposed to be, and also means you can use the bonus action without wasting ACTIONS from your better models (by jumping to an enemy marker or a corpse marker for instance)

I'd also just make Adaptive Evolution available to all Marcus's models. I liked the suggestion someone had of putting on the upgrade itself, like Mc Cabe's "Take This!"

 

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6 cost models in general are pretty disappointing.

At 6 stones, a rabble riser seems pretty cool... Until you slap a 3 stone 'upgrade' on it and just snag Archie instead.

However, those got significantly better with the Public Enemies threshold.

So a lot of it comes down to meta over models just being bad (although certain ones like Belles are probably just bad in almost all scenarios, by all reports).

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Yeah, the only 6 stone model I have I'm not thrilled with are the Freikorps Scouts; they were only useful in Corrupted Idols, now they're only useful in Symbols of Authority, and only then if Corner or Flank Deployment.

Everything else I have is solid, but I only play 11 Keywords.... maybe it's more an issue for the other ~50.

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